Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-26-2012, 08:08 AM   #1
Rivet Master
 
VeggieBullet's Avatar
 
1973 31' Sovereign
2007 20' Safari SE
Vintage Kin Owner
Wesley Chapel , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 879
Ducted AC?- Crazy idea?

Hi everybody.
We were brainstorming about the best ways to optimize the cooling of the AS.
Thanks to the "Best Fan Out There" we are for sure installing a Fantastic Fans (Model we are not sure yet.)
We were also researching on the forum about the best AC Systems and obviously it seems like 2 units for the 31ft is the way to go.
We like the Split Systems like Cantrell & SmokeLessJoe.
Now Just wondering is it will be a little crazy to run a ducted system from the Amstrong?
There is plenty of flexible ducts for boats but we were thinking may be running rectangular or oval ducts thru the ceiling using something like this.
Please any inputs.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HACV.png
Views:	125
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	154339   Click image for larger version

Name:	Boat ducted.png
Views:	121
Size:	609.7 KB
ID:	154340  

__________________

__________________
Still One Nation under GOD
2 chronicles 7:14
VeggieBullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 08:19 AM   #2
Moderator
 
DKB_SATX's Avatar

 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
1976 Argosy 28
Alamo Heights , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,401
Images: 1
Blog Entries: 7
If you don't mind the look of a surface duct you could do that pretty easily, but I think it would be very difficult to run duct through the ceiling. There's not a lot of space between the inner and outer skins, there are ribs you'd have to get through, and you'd be displacing insulation so the outer part of the duct would be near or even touching the outer skin, so the ducts would be hot on a sunny day and you'd be fighting that in addition to trying to cool the main volume of the trailer.
__________________

__________________
David

Zero Gravitas 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | Il Progetto 1976 Argosy 28 Center Bath | WBCCI# 15566

He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. Sir Winston Churchill
DKB_SATX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 08:29 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
VeggieBullet's Avatar
 
1973 31' Sovereign
2007 20' Safari SE
Vintage Kin Owner
Wesley Chapel , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 879
clearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
If you don't mind the look of a surface duct you could do that pretty easily, but I think it would be very difficult to run duct through the ceiling. There's not a lot of space between the inner and outer skins, there are ribs you'd have to get through, and you'd be displacing insulation so the outer part of the duct would be near or even touching the outer skin, so the ducts would be hot on a sunny day and you'd be fighting that in addition to trying to cool the main volume of the trailer.
Thanks for the reply.
Most likely the idea is to run the ducts thru the ceiling unless my wife will come up with some cool design to make the ducts a kind of invisible?
Wondering how much is the clearance between the inner skin and the outer?
__________________
Still One Nation under GOD
2 chronicles 7:14
VeggieBullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 08:40 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
vswingfield's Avatar
 
1983 34' Excella
1967 24' Tradewind
Little Rock , Arkansas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,773
Images: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeggieBullet View Post
Thanks for the reply.
Most likely the idea is to run the ducts thru the ceiling unless my wife will come up with some cool design to make the ducts a kind of invisible?
Wondering how much is the clearance between the inner skin and the outer?
Two inches. Not nearly enough for a good duct even if you remove all the insulation and the ribs. It will blow through the open trailer much better than it would through a two inch duct. Even if there was a way to run the duct.

In the south, you want as much cool air movement as possible. Restricting it is not a good idea.
__________________
Vaughan
vswingfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 09:05 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
VeggieBullet's Avatar
 
1973 31' Sovereign
2007 20' Safari SE
Vintage Kin Owner
Wesley Chapel , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 879
Air Flow

Quote:
Originally Posted by vswingfield View Post
Two inches. Not nearly enough for a good duct even if you remove all the insulation and the ribs. It will blow through the open trailer much better than it would through a two inch duct. Even if there was a way to run the duct.

In the south, you want as much cool air movement as possible. Restricting it is not a good idea.
Hi vswinfield.
If it is 2 inches between skins is probably 1 to 1.5 inches between ribs?
Found that metal air ducts are sold from 1'. Rather use the metal ducts and insulate them vs the flexible hoses to avoid air flow restriction.
We were also thinking that IF the air ducts can be done that the use of computer fans or silenced blower will avoid the restriction of the airflow.
Just thinking out loud : wouldn't the theory of 4 vents distributed over the trailer with the assistance of fans or blowers at every vent work better than a 1 point of cold air in a big trailer?
__________________
Still One Nation under GOD
2 chronicles 7:14
VeggieBullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 09:26 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
Melody Ranch's Avatar
 
1956 22' Flying Cloud
1953 32' Liner
1955 22' Safari
Valley View , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,960
Images: 78
Send a message via Skype™ to Melody Ranch
I would try to run a 4" supply thru the back areas of the cabinet structures. My 21' Sovereign had a nice ducting for the heat built like that and it worked well, did not take up space and looked great.
__________________
"If it can't be reduced, reused, repaired, rebuilt, refurbished, refinished, resold, recycled or composted
then it should be restricted, redesigned or removed from production."
Melody Ranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 09:35 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
VeggieBullet's Avatar
 
1973 31' Sovereign
2007 20' Safari SE
Vintage Kin Owner
Wesley Chapel , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melody Ranch View Post
I would try to run a 4" supply thru the back areas of the cabinet structures. My 21' Sovereign had a nice ducting for the heat built like that and it worked well, did not take up space and looked great.
Hi Melody Ranch
That was actually the other idea.
Since we are planning on gutting the trailer out for a major renovation that would be the other option.
Just wondering at this point if is doable.
Surprise that none has done it? may be to early for the Airstreamers of the west coast?
We are pretty sure that someone already have this system somewhere.
But if it can be run thru the ceiling may be thru the back of the new structures and using something like this in the highest points?
Attached Images
 
__________________
Still One Nation under GOD
2 chronicles 7:14
VeggieBullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 09:39 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,139
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
It takes a significantly larger duct to move cold air efficiently as compared to hot air. I would think Smokeless Joe's idea with multiple inside units would be a better approach. The refrigerant lines would be much smaller than air ducts.
__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 10:07 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
TouringDan's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,470
I have done some difficult duct work jobs in homes, but I don't think that ducted a/c in an Airstream is going to work. It just takes up too much of the precious volume in the Airstream. I would first try a couple of Fantastic Endless air fans to keep the cool air distributed throughout the Airstream. You could also run the funace fan all the time. This will circulate the air through the one or two cold air return ducts for the furnace. If this is not adequate, than add a second air conditioner on top. Smokeless Joe's idea is probably the best if you want to truly have two or more sources of cold air blowing. I suspect you could hide the refrigerant lines between the floor and the belly pan.

Dan
__________________
TouringDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 10:19 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
VeggieBullet's Avatar
 
1973 31' Sovereign
2007 20' Safari SE
Vintage Kin Owner
Wesley Chapel , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
I have done some difficult duct work jobs in homes, but I don't think that ducted a/c in an Airstream is going to work. It just takes up too much of the precious volume in the Airstream. I would first try a couple of Fantastic Endless air fans to keep the cool air distributed throughout the Airstream. You could also run the funace fan all the time. This will circulate the air through the one or two cold air return ducts for the furnace. If this is not adequate, than add a second air conditioner on top. Smokeless Joe's idea is probably the best if you want to truly have two or more sources of cold air blowing. I suspect you could hide the refrigerant lines between the floor and the belly pan.

Dan
Hi Dan.
Great that an HVAC Tech showed up to help whit this naive ignorance
1)Based on TGWinkie's input : What would be the minimum size of duct that we will need to run to have a good airflow?
2) Will the use of fans or blower at the vents help the air flow?
Thanks again
__________________
Still One Nation under GOD
2 chronicles 7:14
VeggieBullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 11:12 AM   #11
tpi
Rivet Master
 
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
Images: 2
Even if you could duct the 2" space how do you get the ducts through the structural ribs? Opening a space through them would severely weaken them and more than one would be affected.

I'm in the camp that recommends two roof AC units if one isn't adequate. If there's an issue with my 25, it isn't distribution, it is overall BTU capacity of the AC unit. If I was adamant about a ducted system, my direction would be a split system with the ductwork incorporated into the upper cabinetry.
__________________
tpi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #12
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,119
Hi Veggie

It's great to have ideas but at some point you have to evaluate them.

The Armstrong A/C does not have the blower capacity to support ductwork. A larger fan would be required and will not fit.

If we look at what would be involved in running A/C from the front to the bedroom you would be looking at a minimum of 4 4" ducts if you were to use round duct. Maybe a 3x12 rectangular duct would do the job.
__________________
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 01:35 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
TouringDan's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,470
VeggieBullet

I am not an hvac tech, but I am an engineer and a home inspector that has installed some duct systems in homes that typical hvac contractors were not interested in messing with.

I like the KISS principle. To cool the bedroom area I would hang an Endless Air fan near the top of the door going into the bedroom and have it pull the cool living room air into the bedroom; the warm bedroom air would then exit the bedroom at the floor level. Also try having the fan at the floor level. See which location works better. Also make sure the bedroom curtains are closed to minimize the heat infiltration into the bedroom.

To answer your question about minimum size duct, I don't know; it depends.

By running your furnace fan you are pulling air from where ever the register is located (bathroom or bedroom) and blowing it out the furnace outlet grill. No extra fan is needed for circulation. We have a 2 level home. We run the furnace fan constantly in the summer time to keep the temperature level uniform. If we do not do this the upstairs is about 4 degrees warmer than the downstairs.

Running the furnace fan and other fans and keeping the drapes and curtains closed costs little or nothing and will improve the operation of the air conditioning system. Hope this helps.

Dan
__________________
TouringDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 02:42 PM   #14
Rivets?
 
nvestysly's Avatar

 
1992 29' Excella
2010 22' Interstate
Van By The River , Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,522
I sure hope the idea of a ducted system gains traction. It seems apparent that ducting will not fit within the shell but there's got to be a better solution than a noisy A/C unit running in the kitchen/living room. I think this problem deserves significant attention from Airstream.

I wish you good luck in your endeavors to find a solution. In a large trailer, even with two rooftop A/C units the noise is a problem in my mind. I've been in SOB's (yes I know they're not the same as an Airstream) with ducted A/C and I don't even realize the unit is running. Go into an Airstream - supposedly a premium rig (at least it has a premium price) - and you can't even hold a conversation or listen to the radio or TV. What gives? Is Airstream listening?

So... keep posting ideas. SmokeLessJoe may be onto something. We have a dual evaporator in our tow vehicle and it works great for cooling down the rear area when needed. There's a solution out there - just needs to be implemented.

Lucius
__________________

__________________
nvestysly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question on 2nd /AC or generator input mefly2 Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 9 06-18-2012 09:04 AM
so .... afixin to put in a new ac Orlop All Argosy Trailers 2 03-19-2012 06:55 PM
Cutting hole for 75 Argosy AC DearArgosy Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 3 03-19-2012 05:32 PM
A new airstream avenue class b van self contained ac generator 190 must see sale eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 03-17-2012 12:10 PM
AC in the AZ bgipeair Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 14 03-10-2012 09:37 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.