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Old 07-01-2009, 08:23 PM   #21
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1970 31' Sovereign
Lombard , Illinois
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Replacement Parts

Hello All,

The Replacement Start Capacitor was purchased at Grainger. The capacitor is P/N 2MEP1, Dayton is the manufacturer. It is the same physical size as the old cap, but this one is rated for 330 volts, rater than 220 volts, which was the original one. I could have had them order a 220 volt, and saved about $3.00, but they had this one in stock,and for those of you that want to use the same enclosure, the new 220 volt one is a bit smaller in diameter than the original. If you buy the one I did, it fits in the stock bracket, being the same diameter as the original. This is O.K., you can go higher with the voltage, but don't go lower than the rated voltage. The original cap was 130-156mf and the new one is 130-158mf, also within allowable tolerances.

Now for the potential relay. I searched high and low, several hours, over a couple of days, to no avail. I finally ended up in a A/C wholesaler supply warehouse (G.W. Berkheimer Co., actually a big chain of stores in the Chicago area). I told my tale of woe to an older guy behind the counter, and he had the answer. The relay I was given is close if not the exact same physical size as the original. The manufacturer of this relay is "SUPCO". It is called a "Universal Potential Relay". Manufacturer's P/N SUPR 418-146-0242. Berkheimer's P/N 94847. This relay wires exactly, wire for wire, the same as the old relay, so it is a easy install. Where the original relay uses back EMF (tastes the voltage level of the compressor windings) this new Universal relay has a timing circuit that disengages the capacitor after a given time, to do the same function as the original.

I have attached a couple of pictures to show what the install looks like. It is, I believe as close to original as you can get today. Like I said, mine was damage due to moisture. This is only a temporary install for me. I am going to replace the enclosure, with a weatherproof one in the next couple of weeks, but this will get me through the holiday weekend, and was good enough to test the circuit with. Now, it was only in the mid sixties today, but I did hear the compressor kick in, and ran it long enough to feel the lines at the compressor feel hot and cold, so I believe I can report that the new parts do the job. If not, I'll report back after this weekend at the campground.

Bottom Line: New Capacitor, $14.03. New Relay, $16.96. A working A/C on a mid 90's day at the campground, Priceless.

Note: At least in Illinois, Both of these places I went to, Grainger and Berkheimer, are "wholesalers" and you have to have access to a commercial account to purchase from them. As practice, they do not sell to the general public. I was able to puchase these items through my employer's account. Get creative... ... as long as they have a valid business address, they will sell you the parts.

I know I promised a copy of the service manual for a TR21-12. Bear with me. I'll post it next week, as soon as I can get time to figure out how to do it.

Best to all,
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:05 PM   #22
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1972 27' Overlander
Saline , Michigan
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Same AC much different start cap

My start capacitor looked much like the one in Scott's picture, the wires were connected, but when I touched, they fell off.

My Capacitor looks like his, in the box with the relay, but it is much lower MFD. Mine is 21-25 MFD
250 VAC 60 CPS
GE part# 35F241BA8.

the one scott used is 130 to 158 MFD.

I suppose one of our units may have had the fan replaced.

I could not make out all the number on my Condenser fan.
It is a 1/6 HP rotates CC and has two speeds. After it runs a while it gets stiff, I have oiled it, I might need to replace. Anyone have more specs for an apporpriate condensor fan motor. like RPM, Volts, etc. The guy at Granger, said if I do replace the motor I would need a new, different capacitor.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gael79 View Post
Hello All,

The Replacement Start Capacitor was purchased at Grainger. The capacitor is P/N 2MEP1, Dayton is the manufacturer. It is the same physical size as the old cap, but this one is rated for 330 volts, rater than 220 volts, which was the original one. I could have had them order a 220 volt, and saved about $3.00, but they had this one in stock,and for those of you that want to use the same enclosure, the new 220 volt one is a bit smaller in diameter than the original. If you buy the one I did, it fits in the stock bracket, being the same diameter as the original. This is O.K., you can go higher with the voltage, but don't go lower than the rated voltage. The original cap was 130-156mf and the new one is 130-158mf, also within allowable tolerances.

Now for the potential relay. I searched high and low, several hours, over a couple of days, to no avail. I finally ended up in a A/C wholesaler supply warehouse (G.W. Berkheimer Co., actually a big chain of stores in the Chicago area). I told my tale of woe to an older guy behind the counter, and he had the answer. The relay I was given is close if not the exact same physical size as the original. The manufacturer of this relay is "SUPCO". It is called a "Universal Potential Relay". Manufacturer's P/N SUPR 418-146-0242. Berkheimer's P/N 94847. This relay wires exactly, wire for wire, the same as the old relay, so it is a easy install. Where the original relay uses back EMF (tastes the voltage level of the compressor windings) this new Universal relay has a timing circuit that disengages the capacitor after a given time, to do the same function as the original.

I have attached a couple of pictures to show what the install looks like. It is, I believe as close to original as you can get today. Like I said, mine was damage due to moisture. This is only a temporary install for me. I am going to replace the enclosure, with a weatherproof one in the next couple of weeks, but this will get me through the holiday weekend, and was good enough to test the circuit with. Now, it was only in the mid sixties today, but I did hear the compressor kick in, and ran it long enough to feel the lines at the compressor feel hot and cold, so I believe I can report that the new parts do the job. If not, I'll report back after this weekend at the campground.

Bottom Line: New Capacitor, $14.03. New Relay, $16.96. A working A/C on a mid 90's day at the campground, Priceless.

Note: At least in Illinois, Both of these places I went to, Grainger and Berkheimer, are "wholesalers" and you have to have access to a commercial account to purchase from them. As practice, they do not sell to the general public. I was able to puchase these items through my employer's account. Get creative... ... as long as they have a valid business address, they will sell you the parts.

I know I promised a copy of the service manual for a TR21-12. Bear with me. I'll post it next week, as soon as I can get time to figure out how to do it.

Best to all,
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:48 PM   #23
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1972 27' Overlander
Saline , Michigan
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Just got off the trailer,

The Condensor motor is a GE
I see the following number on the bottom of the motor.
9397
5KGP39EG 9397s
According to my manual it is a 2 speed 1/6 HP motor and it spins CCW

I did a bunch of google searches and can not find these part numbers or any cross references.

I also want to know if it is ok to use a start capacitor with larger MFD than mine.

My Capacitor looks like his, in the box with the relay, but it is much lower MFD. Mine is 21-25 MFD
250 VAC 60 CPS
GE part# 35F241BA8.

the one scott used is 130 to 158 MFD.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:49 PM   #24
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Strange. There shouldn't be that much of a difference, unless you're looking at the fan capacitor rather than the compressor capacitor.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:33 PM   #25
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1972 27' Overlander
Saline , Michigan
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Granger can not find a start capacitor for me

The start capacitor currently on my 72 armstrong ac is
21-25 MFD 250 VAC
Granger can not find a match.
How high can I go on the MFD before i should be concerned about damaging my compressor.

Has anyone used a supco spp6e, it sounds like it can replace both the start capacitor as well as the Start relay, I am not sure my start relay is bad, but for the price I will probably replace, it would be nice if the spp6e could do both, not sure if this is a good idea and how to wire.

Steve
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:39 PM   #26
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1972 27' Overlander
Saline , Michigan
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I have a 72 international with orniginal Armstrong Air conditioner TR 21-12.

Last year I replaced a very stiff condenser fan, start relay and start capacitor, AC worked very well, but then it started shutting down the compressor in hot temps over 90 degrees.

Just had the condenser coils acid cleaned in hopes that it was just dirty.
That did not solve problem.

Currently the AC works almost always on "low", and often on high, but when it gets in the high 80's or hotter and I am running on high the Compressor will often cycle off. If I shut the unit off, wait 2 or 3 minutes it will start and run fine, then after 10 min or so, compressor will shut off again.

Anyone have any ideas?
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loechli View Post
I have a 72 international with orniginal Armstrong Air conditioner TR 21-12.

Last year I replaced a very stiff condenser fan, start relay and start capacitor, AC worked very well, but then it started shutting down the compressor in hot temps over 90 degrees.

Just had the condenser coils acid cleaned in hopes that it was just dirty.
That did not solve problem.

Currently the AC works almost always on "low", and often on high, but when it gets in the high 80's or hotter and I am running on high the Compressor will often cycle off. If I shut the unit off, wait 2 or 3 minutes it will start and run fine, then after 10 min or so, compressor will shut off again.

Anyone have any ideas?
Either your using an extension cord that's too small, or, the AC is low on Freon.

Check the temperature as close to the AC outlet as possible. That temperature should be 15 to 18 degrees cooler than the inside of the trailer.

If less than that, low Freon is the problem.

Andy
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:20 PM   #28
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No extension cord is being used,
I will check the temperature.

Andy do you mean to check the temp inside trailer then run air and check temp coming out of vent?
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loechli View Post
No extension cord is being used,
I will check the temperature.

Andy do you mean to check the temp inside trailer then run air and check temp coming out of vent?
Yes, but both at the same time.

A small probe type thermometer works best if you insert it into the vent outlet of the AC.

Any other type is Ok for the inside of the trailer. Place it where the air from the AC cannot directly blow on it.

Andy
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Yes, but both at the same time.

A small probe type thermometer works best if you insert it into the vent outlet of the AC.

Any other type is Ok for the inside of the trailer. Place it where the air from the AC cannot directly blow on it.

Andy

My temp diff is around 18 degrees, upon closer investigation it is NOT my compressor that is cutting out, it is my blower fan, it is also very hot to touch, right after starting the AC, is it starting to sound like a bad blower moter?
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loechli View Post
My temp diff is around 18 degrees, upon closer investigation it is NOT my compressor that is cutting out, it is my blower fan, it is also very hot to touch, right after starting the AC, is it starting to sound like a bad blower moter?
Yes indeed.

Andy
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:32 AM   #32
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1972 31' Sovereign
robstown , Texas
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hey, i have a tr21-12 a/c. do you have the schmatics for it. if so i would like a copy. please tell me you have one.

i would gladly pay for it.

Silvergirl 53
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
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hey, i have a tr21-12 a/c. do you have the schmatics for it. if so i would like a copy. please tell me you have one.

i would gladly pay for it.

Silvergirl 53
There is a plate that covers the relays and condensers.

There should be a schematic on the back side of it.

Andy
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:32 AM   #34
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ok Thank you, i should say, i am also looking for a capacitor for it, i finally got an a/c guy out here to check it, he says capacitor is bad, the fan blower works, after the capacitor is put in then he will check the compressor. does anyone know where i can purchase a cover for the a/c?
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:11 AM   #35
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ok Thank you, i should say, i am also looking for a capacitor for it, i finally got an a/c guy out here to check it, he says capacitor is bad, the fan blower works, after the capacitor is put in then he will check the compressor. does anyone know where i can purchase a cover for the a/c?
Which capacitor?

There are two of them.

A fiberglass AC shroud is available.

Andy
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:07 AM   #36
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Marietta , Georgia
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Looks like I need a new start capacitor and a relay for my Armstrong AC in the '71 Safari. I found a hard start capacitor at Grainger's and other online vendors, but I haven't been able to locate the relay. Does anyone have a link to or a modern part number for the relay at one of the online suppliers?

The Supco SPP6E seems like a good choice for the hard start cap except that it won't fit in the original box that contains the relay and start capacitor. Any suggestions for replacement boxes other than making a new one? I checked Home Depot and Lowes and neither had a viable alternative. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:19 AM   #37
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I replaced the original start capacitor with the Supco SPP6E and my AC now works correctly and doesn't trip the overload circuit in my Honda eu3000is generator. The SPP6E is the same size as the original start capacitor so a new box won't be necessary. Win-Win!

I'm also going to replace the run potential relay (original part # 3ARR3 K3S2). I called Grainger's and they recommended 2 modern alternatives from their catalog. Part numbers 1WCC9 and 6X551. I ordered P/N 6X551 as it looks more like the relay in my AC. I'll report back once it has been installed.
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Old 06-28-2016, 03:06 PM   #38
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1970 25' Caravanner
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Reading this 28June16, OAT 96, 70 A/S, original TR21-12, 70F in A/S, in shade.
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Old 06-28-2016, 03:07 PM   #39
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Keeps on ticken----
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Old 06-28-2016, 05:16 PM   #40
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Here's the operating instructions and schematic. Seems like mine used a single capacitor for both the compressor and the fan.

https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...f18e4e4aa2.pdf
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