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04-07-2003, 03:38 PM
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#1
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 94
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Armstrong RV Air conditioners
I have been surprised at the small amount of archives regarding the famous Armstrong Air Conditioners found in many vintage Airstreams.
Chas (of Austin Texas) brought them back to my mind with his shroud replacement thread. http://www.airforums.com/forum...1542#post31542
I am hoping this thread will become a depository of any and all questions and anecdotes concerning Armstrongs.
Apparently they are mighty long-lived and thereby durable units.
*Is Armstrong still in business?
*Which components are not available or replaceable by substitution?
*john hd mentioned upgrading them (electronically I assume) Is that feasible? How?
*How can I determine how many BTUs one is?
*Is there a boneyard of the old ones anywhere that anyone know of?
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04-07-2003, 03:48 PM
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#2
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Just a member
1978 28' Argosy 28
Lutz
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,549
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Pap,
I will impart what I know.
The Armstong company is long gone out of business.
I have heard the Factory was still installing them after the companies demise due to in stock units.
They were built with what are considered to be commercial grade components. This is why we still have working ones! It could also be why they went out of business, no planned 5-7 year obolesence.
I belive there are 3 models (there may be more).
Standard roof air with celing mounted controls
Roof Air with a wall mounted thermostat
Roof Air with wall mounted thermostat and a heat strip.
As to a boneyard, you would need to find a RV boneyard with Airstreams that still have the units, and hope the Freon has not been scavenged. Opening up the sealed system to the outside elements will ruin the compressor and dryer.
As andy mentioned in another thread the motors can be gotten at grainger for the fans, and I belive someone has a cross reference for the compressor. Hope that whets your desire for Armstrong knowlege.
__________________
Brett G
WBCCI #5501 AIR # 49
-------------------------
1978 Argosy 28 foot Motorhome
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -- Plato
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04-07-2003, 04:25 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 949
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I know the first one I saw I chucked off the roof of my Argosy from the get go. Sad thing was it still worked. Found out just how tough it is to supposedly slap a Coleman on an A/S, the Armstrongs were made the way they are for a reason.
(I am learning to appreciate some of the older finer things in life now, such as Inland Andy and a few other geezers around here)
Chas
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04-10-2003, 09:43 AM
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#5
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2 Rivet Member
1986 25' Sovereign
2021 27' Globetrotter
Aguanga
, California
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 25
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Info on Armstrongs
I just bought a new AC for our new to us old railer from Carlie Burke at American Way here in Boise. The 19 year old Colman unit wasn't worth fixing. Snow birds havn't returned to the northern rockies so it was still quiet in the parts deparment. Since it was quiet Charlie decided to tell me why if I had had an Armstrong it would have been worth fixing. He said that they really are very heavy duty industrial products. The company is still around, under another name but the stopped making RV ACs. There is a guy someplace backl east who is now making replacement compressors. He said a dead compressor used to mean the end of the unit, but not anymore. The big difference with an Armstrong is it will freeze you out of your trailer, the things just flat out do the job.
Charlie said the biggest reason for Armstrongs being replaced is that the "kids" at RV repair shops don't know what they are, and instead of fixing them talk the owners into replacing them with a modern (I think that means disposable) unit.
So if anybody has an Armstrong on their trailer, DONT LET SOME IGNORANT MECHANIC DO SOMETHING FOOLISH. Call a real airstream shop and have them send the guy the parts. If they havn't ben mangled they can be fixed.
__________________
Dick & Karen Menz
85 Sovereign 25
03 Expidetion 5.4
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04-10-2003, 02:19 PM
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#6
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 94
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Armstrong stock rises !
Thanks rc, that's the kind of news I like to hear. Course the stock in Armstrong replacement leftovers just went up.
And Chas what became of the carcass of the Armstrong that you "tossed" off the roof (the old gravity express check out service) ? You being an HVAC guy too, shame
I will make it a project to find who that compressor rebuilder is, but don't let that stop anyone else from beating me to it.Please!
Was amazed that replacement shrouds for Penguins are 40 dollars and for Armstrongs are 265.00.
If you own a Armstrong with shroud make sure it is ship shape. If not take it off and try to patch or beef it up.
BTW I saw where Kevin (Overlander64)also stated that he thought Armstrong was not defunct but just out of RV's. We need to establish the facts about that I suppose. Theymight be a distant asset to us in some way...never know!
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06-29-2003, 06:24 AM
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#7
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 29
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-- repair shroud
What wonderful information is available on this forum!
My '73 A/S has an Armstrong. The shroud was cracked, checked and split. After checking the price for a new shroud, I decided to attempt a repair.
A concurrent project is a plywood and epoxy 14' skiff. So, I had epoxy (System Three) available. The details aren't of particular interest, but some generalizations may be helpful to others.
- use the fiberglass cloth to reenforce any breaks, straight epoxy won't hold
- Bondo or other auto body stuff is too brittle to withstand the flexing of the shroud
- fender washers embedded in the epoxy to reenforce the wear of screws passing through the body of the shroud will necessitate a longer screw (by about 1/4")
- the blotchy "repaired" look can be minimized by lightly sanding the shiny epoxy and painting the entire shroud with aluminum paint
__________________
JimF - a pilgrim_still <*}}}><
Waterproof, Louisiana
1973 Sovereign
"Preserve Game - Use a Trained Dog"
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07-02-2003, 05:44 PM
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#8
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 29
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caulking or sealer?
When I replaced my A/C shroud, I noticed that the caulking-like sealer on the trailer top, upon which the shroud sits, was missing in a few places. Some screws (rusted) were exposed.
What is that material? Any special care needed to replace the defective areas?
__________________
JimF - a pilgrim_still <*}}}><
Waterproof, Louisiana
1973 Sovereign
"Preserve Game - Use a Trained Dog"
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07-02-2003, 06:44 PM
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#9
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Just a member
1978 28' Argosy 28
Lutz
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,549
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The factory installed it using Vulcem, so that is what I would use to repair it. The cracked missing sealant can allow water into the coach. There is no real "gasket" under the AC, so the Vulcem is all that is keeping the water out.
__________________
Brett G
WBCCI #5501 AIR # 49
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1978 Argosy 28 foot Motorhome
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -- Plato
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07-18-2003, 07:07 AM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 41
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Armstrong A/C 32 yrs. Old
Mine still works as advertised. Very cold but at 32 years old I wonder just how much longer it will go. I've cleaned it, repaired the cowling and Imroned it, replace all the screens and hardware with SS.
What is the pressure suppose to be when fully charged? R-12?
Dave Spann
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07-18-2003, 11:06 AM
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#11
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2 Rivet Member
1966 26' Overlander
Waskom
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 39
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Armstrong A/C
Hello to all;
My A/C is still working on my 66 Overlander, but it is getting tired. The inside coils are in need of replacing and I am considering a replacement. I haven't decided to replace the inside coils ( if I can even find them!) or the whole unit. My drain pan is on the inside with a wall mounted thermostat. The drain lines were not hooked up and there was no sign of any place to connect them. I have installed the clear soft tubing and ran it to the roof vent pipe. I did form a slight trap in the pastic tubing for water to prevent any odors ) I really did not expect any from the gray water, but just in case!). It sounds like most of the units mentioned here have the evaporator coils outside on the roof?
I did replace my double shafted blower motor with a general replacement GE motor purchased from Johnstone Refridgeration for less than $100 . They are affilliated nationwide with many local shops.
I also had to repair my shroud after it almost blew off. I riveted aluminum strips on for reenforcements ant fiberglassed over with coth and resin. I did all my repairs on the inside of the shroud, as there was plenty of room. That huge shroud still seems like it needs more and better mounting than what it came with!
Calvin
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07-19-2003, 05:22 AM
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#12
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4 Rivet Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 403
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I'm going to try it for the first time this week-end...hope it works...
Where does the condensation drain
Hart
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07-19-2003, 05:33 AM
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#13
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Just a member
1978 28' Argosy 28
Lutz
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,549
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The condensation "should" drain out of a small black tube that sticks out of the belly just in front of the wheels on the roadside (oppisite the door).
Good luck!
__________________
Brett G
WBCCI #5501 AIR # 49
-------------------------
1978 Argosy 28 foot Motorhome
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -- Plato
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07-05-2004, 04:11 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pap
...I am hoping this thread will become a depository of any and all questions and anecdotes concerning Armstrongs...
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To that end, I will add the dry, technical data learned as I went about restoring my Bay Breeze unit to operation after a 23 year hiatus.
First, some food for the Google Spiders, and local search engine:
Fan motor, P/N 3213010002, Redmond CY 6
Condensor fan, P/N 463-13, 14" dia.
Filter pad only, P/N 601-01, Scott Foam
The fan motor was rusted in two after years of being covered by pine straw. An Internet search provided the obituary for The Redmond Electric Motor Company. So, armed with information from both the unit's spec tag & the original Service and Trouble Shooting Guide, I visited an extremely helpful, local motor shop.
The man at the counter got the biggest kick out of that rusted-in-two motor. All in fun, he advised me that it "looks like warranty work".
Examining the motor's remains, he determined the last piece of information I did not have - the operating speed of 1075 rpm. Checking the books, he found A. O. Smith Electrical Products Company's Stock number 105 motor was identical in electrical characteristics, form & function. The only modification needed for "fit" was trimming the motor shafts to the correct length. Also, #105 is a three speed motor, whereas Redmond's motor was only a two speed. A wire cap on the "medium" speed wire resolved the issue. He was impressed with the way my motor mounted, and shared some war stories of how poorly RV A/C makers do it nowadays.
My condensor fan itself was okay. But a chunk of it's mounting hub had rusted away, and the two were manufactured as an assembly. Fearing the worst, I replaced the fan assembly. Nowadays, fan blades are screwed on to the hub. The man at Kelsey Electric Motor determined the blade pitch to be 23 degrees CCW.
The A/C's dust filter had...turned to dust. While I probably could have found a more exact replacement filtering element, I had already purchased something suitable to rebuild my kitchen's exhaust fan filter.
Below are some pictures to go along with the words.
Enjoy!
Tom
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07-05-2004, 07:51 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1986 25' Sovereign
Southern Middle
, Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,319
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Good information Tom. Thanks.
__________________
Craig
AIR #0078
'01 2500hd ext. cab, 8.1 litre gas, 5 sp. Allison auto
3.73 rear end
Mag-Hytec rear diff cover
Amsoil Dual by-pass oil filtration system
Amsoil synthetics all around
265 watt AM Solar, Inc. system
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07-05-2004, 12:37 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1979 30' Argosy
Havelock
, where we park it
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,652
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Armstrong 10
Our 1975 Argosy has an Armstrong 10 on it. Does that mean it is 10000 btu? It dosn't say what the btu is anyplace that I can see. Thanks Annie
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07-05-2004, 08:34 PM
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#17
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 90
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Nice work TC but more info needed please
TCWilliams,
You provide helpful info here. This is the kind of thread that this forum needs more of. thanks also to Pap. I have seen other things he contributed and he is very helpful. Where is he now when we need him?
About the Armstrong,
What model is your A/C TCWilliams? I read Bay Breeze but is there a #?
OK I just found the link to your photo page and see the model number TAC-110-1. Thanks for the hide & seek hunt TC.
Do you suspect the A/C came with your unit from factory or is there evidence it was added later?
Where is the data plate located?
Did you notice any type of gasket between the unit and the roof?
Do you think one could help? and if so any ideas on fabrication of one? I do not think Vulkem alone makes much sense.
On mine the shroud is vulcum'ed to the roof. Not sure if there was once a bracket to recieve the lower section of the shroud or not. Looks pretty sloppy. I have not removed shroud as yet, and find no data plate inside the coach under the air diflector/filter cover. So I do not know what unit I have.
The thermostat shows a heating function. I wonder if all trailers used this thermostat even if not equipped with heat strip? Where would the heat strip be seen?
you also mention a service manual for the Armstrong. Where did that come from? Can you describe it for us?
TIA
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07-05-2004, 08:42 PM
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#18
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Vintage RV
1959 24' Tradewind
Atascadero
, California
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 72
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My '59 tradewind has an Armstrong AC unit with an Aluminum shroud. When did they swich to fiberglass (or whatever)? I haven't had a chance to run it yet. Once I get the generator working I'll fire it up.
It came with the original "owner's maintenace guide."
Paul
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07-06-2004, 03:19 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Whew, that's a lotta questions!
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadeo
Question1) Do you suspect the A/C came with your unit from factory or is there evidence it was added later?
Q2) Where is the data plate located?
Q3) Did you notice any type of gasket between the unit and the roof?
Q4) Do you think one could help? and if so any ideas on fabrication of one? I do not think Vulkem alone makes much sense.
S1) On mine the shroud is vulkem'ed to the roof.
Q5) The thermostat shows a heating function. I wonder if all trailers used this thermostat even if not equipped with heat strip?
Q6) Where would the heat strip be seen?
Q7) You also mention a service manual for the Armstrong. Where did that come from? Can you describe it for us?
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Response1)My A/C came from the factory according to the original window sticker included with the paperwork provided by the previous owner.
R2) The data plate is located on the forward section on the A/C’s roof portion. It can be seen after the shroud is removed.
R3) Yes.
R4) The original sealing material, somewhat dark in appearance, appeared to be applied in strips. Since it is still pliable, I doubt it is Vulkem. I am guessing it may be a trademarked petroleum product. Your best bet is to contact a modern RV A/C manufacturer & ask what they recommend.
My one-piece shroud is fastened to the rooftop unit. Vulkem sounds like the PO’s work: watertight sealing is not required at the shroud.
R5) My thermostat only has a cooling function. If you could provide the year of your Airstream, someone else may have better insight into your unit.
R6) The heat strip, if you have one, would be located in the interior portion of your unit. At least three things are possible here: A) Your thermostat’s heat control function controls the gas furnace, B) Your A/C unit is a reversible heat pump, C) The thermostat is a replacement unit & nothing is hooked to the heating wires.
R7) Actually, I mentioned a Service and Trouble Shooting Guide which came with the Overlander. It is comprised of three or four pages of 8-1/2X11” paper folded & stapled in the middle.
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06-17-2005, 03:11 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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And for the finale
The consensus appears to be that my air conditioner was rated at 11,000 Btus. Tecumseh, the compressor's OEM, no longer makes that particular capacity, opting instead for either 10k or 12k versions.
My air conditioner quit on our last trip after a mere 38 years. I had the compressor replaced with the 12k version. The complete tale can be read at my website on this particular page.
(Google spider food: Old compressor: AJK14-215; New compressor: AK111AT-004-J7.)
Tom
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