Alde European central heating system ?

[nickclifford]

I see that Euro spec caravans have central heating systems like all homes do in Europe, wondering if it's possible to install these systems in US Airstreams? I'm sure anything is possible but has anyone actually done this ?!
http://www.alde.co.uk/

[nickclifford]

Do we know why AS won't use in US trailers ?

[Protagonist]

Possibly because they use half a pound of propane per hour to keep the glycol solution hot.

Possibly because installing the system would require a lot more plumbing. Which means a lot more labor cost to assemble.

Possibly because you can get Attwood or Suburban furnaces serviced anywhere, but not many RV service centers in the US work on Alde systems.

Possibly because there isn't enough of a market for radiant heat systems because no one else asks for them.

Shall I go on?

[kendrick.l.j]

Hey guys, the new Classic (starting with 2017) are using Alde as their heating system and to heat water. There are several hundred posts about the Alde system on this forum. Much Ado Alde thread. When properly set up it is an awesome system.

[Cruiser6483]

Yes, the ALDE system is almost standard in the cold north of Europe. I installed it myself in my cruiser in 1954. Greetings from Switzerland - Werner

[Jekerrville]

Once we started to talk Texan to our sweet Alde, she started to work fantastic. Low fuel consumption, and very low load on Honda Gen Set when out in the sticks. Placed a small Vornado cloth fin fan in one end of Classic 30' and had to reduce cabin temp several degrees at 8,700 feet. (30's outside)

Oh, and very quiet. No 110 Db ram jet engine noise like from the Dometic.

It just took some adjustments to get Alde happy. Download the installers guide and tech manual from Alde US. Unfortunately, AS dealers still behind the learning curve.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

I'm quite happy with the Alde setup on my AS. It's quiet and with radiators all through the trailer heats things very uniformly. Heat output is higher on propane than on shore power. For "cold" being 50F, shore power is fine. Even on propane it doesn't do much "damage" to a 40 lb tank overnight at 50 or so. Same thing is true idling for a day just keeping the water in the tank hot. I have yet to even wonder about how to refill my first propane tank

All that said, yes, they do use a lot of propane running full blast. If it's 20F outside, anything that fully heats an AS is going to use a *lot* of energy. About a pound an hour is not out of the question .... (that's max burner full time on the "stock" model). It's delivering 18,500 BTU at that point.

Bob

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Possibly because they use half a pound of propane per hour to keep the glycol solution hot.

Possibly because installing the system would require a lot more plumbing. Which means a lot more labor cost to assemble.

Possibly because you can get Attwood or Suburban furnaces serviced anywhere, but not many RV service centers in the US work on Alde systems.

Possibly because there isn't enough of a market for radiant heat systems because no one else asks for them.

Shall I go on?

Not so, the Alde system wins hands down over the Atwood forced air.
I had the forced air in out previous AS and we have the Alde in our 2017 Classic and we love it. It uses way less fuel than the Atwood not to mention the fact that you don't have a fan draining your battery. And no dust blowing around either.

[nickclifford]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Possibly because they use half a pound of propane per hour to keep the glycol solution hot.

Possibly because installing the system would require a lot more plumbing. Which means a lot more labor cost to assemble.

Possibly because you can get Attwood or Suburban furnaces serviced anywhere, but not many RV service centers in the US work on Alde systems.

Possibly because there isn't enough of a market for radiant heat systems because no one else asks for them.

Shall I go on?

Or possibly, you have some hidden agenda here ?! wow, maybe I'm behind the times, they seem so advanced v a forced air furnace system. No one in Europe uses forced air, once you've experienced radiant heat, you'd know why !

[InterBlog]

Anyone considering an Alde system ought to read ClassBWarned.com. It's one of the rare blogs that is best read sequentially from start to finish, for the comprehensive picture that it paints. However, if a reader is interested in minimizing their time on the site, parts 13, 14, and 15 are particularly instructive with respect to the Alde. I especially like the photo in which he shows glycol spewing onto the ground immediately following a warranty "repair".

I wouldn't consider it in a million years, myself. A severely propane-inefficient liquid system in an off-grid rig full of sophisticated lithium-based electrical upgrades, as ours is? Liquid integrated into areas with those electrical upfits? I'd have to have my head examined.

But there might be some owners and some scenarios for which it might be appropriate. Maybe those folks who rely 100% on hook-up travel and whose rigs are in such a configuration that they are not so sensitive to the potential for liquid leaking throughout.

[nickclifford]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Anyone considering an Alde system ought to read ClassBWarned.com. It's one of the rare blogs that is best read sequentially from start to finish, for the comprehensive picture that it paints. However, if a reader is interested in minimizing their time on the site, parts 13, 14, and 15 are particularly instructive with respect to the Alde. I especially like the photo in which he shows glycol spewing onto the ground immediately following a warranty "repair".

I wouldn't consider it in a million years, myself. A severely propane-inefficient liquid system in an off-grid rig full of sophisticated lithium-based electrical upgrades, as ours is? Liquid integrated into areas with those electrical upfits? I'd have to have my head examined.

But there might be some owners and some scenarios for which it might be appropriate. Maybe those folks who rely 100% on hook-up travel and whose rigs are in such a configuration that they are not so sensitive to the potential for liquid leaking throughout.

Good to know, I'd suggest going on to U.K. based caravan forums for further discussion as to how they actually perform. Would imagine they've been around for a while and if this much of a disaster would have been ditched by now. Why would AS use in all they euro models if so bad ? And now introducing into the US too?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Anyone considering an Alde system ought to read ClassBWarned.com. It's one of the rare blogs that is best read sequentially from start to finish, for the comprehensive picture that it paints. However, if a reader is interested in minimizing their time on the site, parts 13, 14, and 15 are particularly instructive with respect to the Alde. I especially like the photo in which he shows glycol spewing onto the ground immediately following a warranty "repair".
......

Hi

At least in terms of the Alde system, that's one very confused individual .... That's not uncommon in the RV world. There are a lot of things you can get messed up about.

Bob

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

At least in terms of the Alde system, that's one very confused individual .... That's not uncommon in the RV world. There are a lot of things you can get messed up about.

Bob

?? I'm not sure I understand. Can you be specific? Messed up about what, exactly? The issues he described were none of his personal doing - his brand new rig was delivered just like that, and over the course of months, Roadtrek was never able to resolve the problems with the Alde. They couldn't even get it to stop leaking for much of that time (and it's still not clear it's fixed for the long term).

I didn't find him to be confused. He actually seems to be an educated individual characterized by good focus and precision in his thinking (I've corresponded with him by email). He seems increasingly interested in fully understanding the technical bases for the issues he has had with his rig.

[nickclifford]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

?? I'm not sure I understand. Can you be specific? Messed up about what, exactly? The issues he described were none of his personal doing - his brand new rig was delivered just like that, and over the course of months, Roadtrek was never able to resolve the problems with the Alde. They couldn't even get it to stop leaking for much of that time (and it's still not clear it's fixed for the long term).

I didn't find him to be confused. He actually seems to be an educated individual characterized by good focus and precision in his thinking (I've corresponded with him by email). He seems increasingly interested in fully understanding the technical bases for the issues he has had with his rig.

this poor guy ended up with a real lemon, I wouldn't let one bad story get in the way though. These heating systems are very common in Europe, if that bad, Alde would have gone out of biz a long time ago. Even AS installing them now. Heating systems in most US homes use forced heat, it's a very archaic method compared to radiant heating. ( but probably more reliable ! )

[kendrick.l.j]

I will try again- Nick, Interblog, the Alde IS being used in Airstream’s. the system is standard equipment in the 2017 and 2018 Classics. I own a 17 Classic and after some minor adjustments at delivery the system works great.

[tbashin]

My guess is that Europe has more in common with Canada's cold weather than the USA which is further South than Europe. Like any system, if it's installed correctly the chance of failure go down significantly.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

?? I'm not sure I understand. Can you be specific? Messed up about what, exactly? The issues he described were none of his personal doing - his brand new rig was delivered just like that, and over the course of months, Roadtrek was never able to resolve the problems with the Alde. They couldn't even get it to stop leaking for much of that time (and it's still not clear it's fixed for the long term).

I didn't find him to be confused. He actually seems to be an educated individual characterized by good focus and precision in his thinking (I've corresponded with him by email). He seems increasingly interested in fully understanding the technical bases for the issues he has had with his rig.

Hi

He spends a massive amount of time going around in circles on trivial points. That may be a "I HAVE TO FILL THE BLOG" sort of panic. Think of a very detailed story about all the things that can go wrong when putting air in a tire. Run through the whole thing. I have to buy a compressor. Now I need a hose. Nobody told me hoses come in different lengths. I need a longer hose. Now I find that the fittings on the hose don't match the compressor. Yet another trip to the store. Now I have a hose, but need some sort of adapter for the tire. Back from the store, the adapter does not fit the tire on my bicycle. It seems to be for a automobile.

We still have not got any air in the tire, but the blog is filling up. It really sounds like putting air in a tire is a massively complex process if you have never done it. Any good story must have a villain. Pick one and toss that in. They are starting to look pretty bad at this point.

Did he have some issues with Roadtek? Sure. Did he have to do some things that are part of routine maintenance a bit early, sure. He also spent a lot of time going around and round about this and that.

Bob