Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-27-2003, 11:06 AM   #15
Moderator
 
jcanavera's Avatar

 
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton , Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,002
Images: 143
Send a message via AIM to jcanavera Send a message via Skype™ to jcanavera
I would be curious regarding the size of the A/C unit on your 34' trailer? I don't know what A/S is putting on them today, but in the 2001/2002 era the biggest Penguin unit was 13,500 BTU. I can tell you that my first camping trip out with my 27' Safari was in full sun at 100 degrees. We couldn't get the trailer down below 85 degees in the day and at times approached the upper 80's in the trailer.

We did every test in the book and the air conditioner was running to specs. I did a lot of checking and I do agree it was working to the best of its ability. Personally I think the unit is undersized and to put one of these in a 34' unit would probably yield the results you are experiencing.

Now we did go up to Jackson Center at their request to check for potential air leaks. One concern was that the wrong size unit may have been installed. Another was that the refrigerator compartment may have been leaking heat into the ceiling. As it ended up neither concern was an issue but they did realign my door. I have never been out in 100 degree full sun situations since that initial trip so I can't say that we have resolved anything. So far all is good.

I have seen some 34' units with 2 roof A/C which tells me that cooling in some situations has been marginal. Airstream now offers an optional 15,000 BTU Penguin so obviously they and Duo-Therm know that a bigger unit was needed.

I done a lot of talking to folks with the new bigger trailers and I've learned that cooling has not always been up to their expectations. I added a full streetside awning this year to the Safari in hopes of keeping the heat load down.

One of my conversations with the factory was the design limits for air conditioning. For example in St. Louis home air conditioning is sized to maintain a 20 degree spread between outside and inside temperatures. I was told that A/S has no specification.

Jack
__________________

__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500,'14 Honda CTX 700
jcanavera is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2003, 11:55 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
drboyd's Avatar

 
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,428
A/C sizing

Well, yoou're probably right there about the sizing! The sizing is probably based on (a) what size units are available and (b) how much do they cost, rather than a full engineering heat load analysis. You may be down to either adding another a/c or ducting all the cooling to the part of the coach where you happen to be at the time...

Has anyone ever tried spraying down the outside of the coach right after sunset to cool it down? It might dull that gorgeous polish job if you had hard water, and it pretty much implies that you have tolerant neighbors and a supply of water, but that might help in marginal situations....
__________________

__________________
drboyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2003, 12:13 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
RoadKingMoe's Avatar
 
2001 34' Limited
The State of , Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,605
Images: 23
In the driveway, our streetside points due west. Using the awnings on that side dramatically reduces heat gain into the trailer! Keeping the skylights closed during the day does also.

Spraying a trailer down with water is a great idea. Just make sure it isn't hard water. Ours at home leaves near-permanent water spots if you wash a vehicle with it.
__________________
Maurice
RoadKingMoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 09:38 AM   #18
Just an old timer...
 
85MH325's Avatar

 
Tipton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,031
Images: 37
Quote:
Originally posted by jcanavera
I would be curious regarding the size of the A/C unit on your 34' trailer? I don't know what A/S is putting on them today, but in the 2001/2002 era the biggest Penguin unit was 13,500 BTU.
Jack
Jack,

I checked the owner's manual this morning. The unit I have is a Dometic Duo-Therm 13.5k btu unit, Model #610015.306. I would guess it was probably the largest RV unit available in '94.

The owner's manual gives very explicit instructions to park the trailer in the shade, start the air early in the morning as it's easier to maintain a cool temp than to cool it down, use awnings, etc. etc. etc. All the stuff we already know. Basically, the owner's manual is telling me, in so many words, that the unit is inadequate to cool a hot trailer, but if you take all the right precautions it might be able to keep a cool trailer cool. So... now we know...

Roger
__________________
AIR 2053 Current: 2006 Born Free 32 RQ Kodiak Chassis, & 1995 Coachmen B-van
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
85MH325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 11:24 AM   #19
nds
3 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 240
Is the Penguin 13,500 BTU (model #600315) suppose to be more efficient than the regular Duo-Therm 13,500 BTU (model #610015)?
__________________
nds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 11:27 AM   #20
Just an old timer...
 
85MH325's Avatar

 
Tipton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,031
Images: 37
Quote:
Originally posted by nds
Is the Penguin 13,500 BTU (model #600315) suppose to be more efficient than the regular Duo-Therm 13,500 BTU (model #610015)?
Actually, I noticed on the trip back out to the trailer to put the manuals away that my DuoTherm does say "Penguin" on the control panel face... hmmm...

Mine is probably just the ten year old model...

Roger
__________________
AIR 2053 Current: 2006 Born Free 32 RQ Kodiak Chassis, & 1995 Coachmen B-van
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
85MH325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 11:36 AM   #21
nds
3 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 240
Hmm, my friend (boltos, also asking A/C questions here) just ordered a new Penguin for his 23' 1970 Safari (which hasn't had A/C installed before).

I'm assuming he won't have a problem with this unit cooling this smaller trailer? I saw another posT regarding bedrooms remaining hot. Is this more with the larger trailers or will he be needing to get a fan to circulate air back to his bedroom too?
__________________
nds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 11:40 AM   #22
Retired Moderator
 
john hd's Avatar
 
1992 29' Excella
madison , Wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,644
Images: 40
same same

"The owner's manual gives very explicit instructions to park the trailer in the shade, start the air early in the morning as it's easier to maintain a cool temp than to cool it down, use awnings, etc. etc. etc. All the stuff we already know. Basically, the owner's manual is telling me, in so many words, that the unit is inadequate to cool a hot trailer, but if you take all the right precautions it might be able to keep a cool trailer cool. So... now we know... "

roger,

my manual sez the same thing, common sense i guess.

i don't think that is particular to your trailer.



john
__________________
john hd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 11:53 AM   #23
Rivet Master
 
drboyd's Avatar

 
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,428
Well, that kind of sizing is actually better...

...in terms of efficiency and overall comfort, believe it or not. Here's why: Bigger is Not Better

That's a great plan for the unit on your house.

The issue here is how RV units are used. First of all, most of the electricity used is not directly metered to the individual trailer, as I understand RV parks. (No experience whatsoever, so feel free to correct me here!) Second, trailer use is almost by definition on a temporary basis, so quick cool-down requirements should be considered.

Don
__________________
drboyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 05:07 PM   #24
Just an old timer...
 
85MH325's Avatar

 
Tipton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,031
Images: 37
Re: Well, that kind of sizing is actually better...

Quote:
Originally posted by drboyd
...in terms of efficiency and overall comfort, believe it or not. Here's why: Bigger is Not Better

That's a great plan for the unit on your house.

The issue here is how RV units are used. First of all, most of the electricity used is not directly metered to the individual trailer, as I understand RV parks. (No experience whatsoever, so feel free to correct me here!) Second, trailer use is almost by definition on a temporary basis, so quick cool-down requirements should be considered.

Don
For a fixed dwelling unit such as a house, I agree with the article. It presumes, however that the heating load is calculated as a fixed amount. With an RV, there is no attic, the insulation is only 2", and the sun can be relentless on a hot, sunny day without shade. So, the potential for varience is substantially greater in an RV than a house. The problem here is that the AC units mounted on a 34' trailer are just not up to the task of cooling off a hot trailer with constant BTU input from the walls, and unless you have the very latest AC units, a 30 amp circuit isn't enough to power two AC units on a single trailer.

So, as a practical matter the 13,500 BTU AC unit runs at max for hours on end, removing lots and lots of moisture, but is unable to cool the trailer as there are apparently more BTUs of heat coming in than the AC can cope with. Hence the advice from Airstream to park in the shade, use awnings, etc. etc.

Roger
__________________
AIR 2053 Current: 2006 Born Free 32 RQ Kodiak Chassis, & 1995 Coachmen B-van
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
85MH325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 05:17 PM   #25
Rivet Master
 
drboyd's Avatar

 
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,428
So, I'm still wondering about hosing the unit down to cool it off....

The real limitation here appears to be the service amperage per foot of coach length.

Given that water spots are BAD, we'd want to use distilled water, right? If a pound of water in evaporation absorbs roughly 1,000 BTU, wouldn't a couple of gallons (16 pounds or so) give you about an hour head start? (Assuming that it all evaporates, yada, yada, yada)

How about collecting distilled water from the condensate drain, and spraying the roof with it?

Now, I know what you'll say: Don, that's a lame-o/wacko idea, because when the unit only condenses significant amounts of water when the humidity is up, and evaporatively cooling the outside of the coach is thus markedly less effective under conditions of high humidity.

And you're right. Oh, well.

Maybe a couple of gallons of distilled water in the truck to give it a head start....

Don
__________________
drboyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2003, 05:17 PM   #26
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,190
A Cool Idea

Roger, if your unit is only 13,500btu, why not upgrade to a 15K unit? I am not sure of price up there, but a 15K unit here in sunny South Florida is $499.00.
And, of course, since the one you have now works well, just a tad too small, maybe you could sell it to someone here on the list with a smaller trailer, and get at least part of your cost back.
It is just an idea, and would be better than buying a block of dry ice to put in the bedroom every night to cool it off.
Terry
(in Florida)
__________________
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2003, 09:58 AM   #27
2 Rivet Member
 
Tomy Dean Noah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 27
aircondition

Was in air conditioning for 15 years before retiring.
Rating for air conditioning is : regular airconditioning is for every 12000 btus is rated for 500sqft. ,,,, Heat pump 12000 btus , 400sqft. Most instulatins are under rated, because you must consider heat load== insulation, number of windows, airstream is metel, number of people, where parked. Most trailers have one of fiber class, when conpressed is about 1/8 inch thick ,with an r-vaule of about five.
If you install duck work in sealing, make the out put from the airconditioner curved so it will force the air through the duck. If it is at an 90 degree angle coming out , the turn is = to 25ft of duck. The curve is = to 10ft restricted static air pressure. The motor on the airconditioner is reated at so much cfm and static air pressure flow, that should be on the manfactures ratinf lable just inside the unit.
Anothe alternative is if you do not have tenting or very little tinting on the windows, you may consider doing this. Tomy
__________________

__________________
Blue Moon
Tomy Dean Noah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New AS Air Conditioning - Does It Work? DreamStream Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 14 02-27-2004 08:01 PM
Air Conditioning Casing Mobile1 Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 2 02-26-2004 11:10 PM
air conditioning cowling and vent disintegration Rickj Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 7 12-30-2003 02:04 PM
Air Conditioning Leak ccphoto Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 5 06-15-2003 10:18 PM
Fantastic Fan or Air Conditioning??? Charcigar Roof Vents, Skylights & Fans 15 01-21-2003 09:19 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.