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Old 11-22-2006, 10:43 AM   #1
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How bad can it really be to "heat" with the stove or oven? if it were that dangerous, it wouldn't be safe to cook with it, either. even with the oven door closed, there's no outside vent for any exhaust gasses. they just wind up in the living space, anyway.

??
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:51 AM   #2
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I've also wondered the same...

I think the biggest issue is that you typically only cook with an oven and you only use it for an hour or two and are active and aware while doing so. While heating with an oven you potentially would have it on for a longer period of time and it may be at night when you would go to sleep and potentially not wake up if there was a problem.

Just my logical thinking creeping in...

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Old 11-22-2006, 10:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
not to steer the thread way off course, but how bad can it really be to "heat" with the stove or oven? if it were that dangerous, it wouldn't be safe to cook with it, either. even with the oven door closed, there's no outside vent for any exhaust gasses. they just wind up in the living space, anyway.

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Chuck,
Every current RV I have ever been in has a large sticker on the stove somewhere that says it is NOT to be used for heating purposes and to provide adequate ventilation. That includes the one in my popup which I can assure you has "adequate" ventilation Anytime you have an open flame appliance operating you have the risk of CO and under other conditions too. Furnaces provide separate fresh air intake and exhaust and the combustion is in a sealed chamber. As far as cooking most RV's have some type of exhaust hood, and when cooking you are typically not running all burners and the oven wide open trying to heat up a closed up trailer. I suppose you could also run into an oxygen depletion situation too.

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Old 11-22-2006, 10:58 AM   #4
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just ask your local fire fighters if they would reccomend heating with a gas stove. it would be the same as heating with a charcoal grill. very deadly...it burns up the oxygen in the vehicle. no oxygen no life.. if you are cooking , you usualy are in and out of the trailer so the air gets changed some but if heating and sleeping there is no exchange of air.it will put you in the land of the never ending sleep. if you have a co sensor it will go off after a while. that is why some propane heaters have a low oxygen shut off on them .. I hope this will clear up some misgivings about this subject. just be safe and don't do it..I don't like funerals..
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
not to steer the thread way off course, but how bad can it really be to "heat" with the stove or oven? if it were that dangerous, it wouldn't be safe to cook with it, either. even with the oven door closed, there's no outside vent for any exhaust gasses. they just wind up in the living space, anyway.

??
As far as I know, you should normaly open a window and/or roof vent when cooking. That is what is written on all (caravan) cooktops here in Germany. The Problem while heating with it, is that people might close windows and roof vents to keep the heat in, but with that they also keep all the fumes in and fresh air that is used by the flames can´t come in, so the fresh air in the trailer is used...
If you look at your furnace it takes fresh air from the outside and the exaust air goes directly out of the trailer.

Another Problem in my opinion is that heating with an open flame is a no-no inside a trailer or closed room. The risk of a bigger fire is just too big.

just my 0.02 Cents


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Old 11-22-2006, 11:39 AM   #6
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yea and ya know, what's all the fuss with microwaves being closed for cooking....

i mean a little stray microwave isn't THAT big a deal is it...

gas and for that matter electric ovens are designed to operate properly with the door closed.

not only 02 and co but the flame control, thermostat and complete combustion rely on a closed door....

the door also provides insulation and prevents heat and flame from igniting nearby stuff.

many kitchen burns are related to open oven doors. pots fall out, grates too and so on...

open 'cookoven' heating kills people a variety of ways including fire.

ovens should and will eventually have safety switches such that 1-5 minutes after opening the door they turn off....

the industry has been against this simple safety feature because of the 2 bucks added to production and they prefer to rely on a label...

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Old 11-22-2006, 12:17 PM   #7
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yeah, ok. all points "understood". But I wasn't suggesting that anyone turn on all the burners full blast, then go anesthetise yourself for 8 hours, (or even simply go to sleep) and see if you're still alive afterwards. Nor would I store a 6 month supply of paper towels within an inch of an open oven door.

just a PINCH of common sense was assumed.

On a really chilly morning, all it takes to make my trailer toasty warm is to put on the tea kettle to boil water. 1 burner, 5 minutes...they really throw alot of heat.

a few years ago, we had a power failure during a snow storm...the longest outage we've experienced at this location (about 8 hours total) well, after a few hours, it was starting to get uncomfortable, so I decided to try and light the oven. (gas by propane...only gas in the house). To my surprise, the oven won't light without electricity (valve doesn't turn on). So I lit the 4 burners. (I just figured that the oven would put out more heat than the burners, because its "bigger"). It only took an hour...maybe a little less, before I had to shut them off because it was getting too warm! windows all fogged up, too.
anyway, the oven thing surprised me. not sure if thats a "safety" feature, or if the thermostat is electronic, and won't regulate properly w/o electricity, or what.
In any case, I don't think it was (or is) any great sin to do this in an emergency, as long as nothing is unattended. I certainly wouldn't go to bed and leave it running all night or anything like that.
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Old 11-22-2006, 12:36 PM   #8
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perhaps this thread is now...'the flame that caused no fire'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
a few years ago, we had a power failure during a snow storm...the longest outage we've experienced at this location (about 8 hours total) well, after a few hours, it was starting to get uncomfortable, so I decided to try and light the oven. (gas by propane...only gas in the house). To my surprise, the oven won't light without electricity (valve doesn't turn on). So I lit the 4 burners.

In any case, I don't think it was (or is) any great sin to do this in an emergency, as long as nothing is unattended.
i don't mean to belabor this issue but...

great sin no, but greatly dangerous yes....

we have several power outages in the midwest every winter. and every winter poor folks turn on the burners or light the ovens...

and every winter several folks die or burn down their houses...i mean lots.

they sit down in front of the stove for just a minute...and go to sleep unintentionally from fatigue or co or just because...

using the stove for heat may cause more death and distruction than the actual power outages...

and keeps the fire departments runny around spraying water in sub freezing weather...

so ultimately doing this is dangerous to firefighters and emts too...

i understand how a by product of making tea warms the morning air...

but the leap from one to the other....ouch.

as for power outages, a benefit to having a honda genset is the value it provides at HOME when the lights go out...



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Old 11-22-2006, 01:29 PM   #9
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yeah, they burn 'em down with all sorts of space heaters, too. should we ban space heaters?
some people are just going to find a way, no matter what you do. its the old "double-edged sword". I run into this at work alot, by giving people tools to avoid or prevent one problem, they wind up creating a bigger one with a "side effect".

Like the generator. Give that to some people, and they'll bring it on down to the basement, plug it into the furnace, and turn it on. (we need a "hand smacking forehead" smiley to substitute for these two...).

Something like that actually happened in my house...same one...while it was being built. long story, 99.9% of the house was built via portable generator. Electricity was one of the very last things connected. Anyway, the wife and I went to the house one saturday while they were finishing up construction. one finish carpenter was there installing moldings, working alone. The contractor's generator was inside the basement, chained to a lally column; the carpenter couldn't move it, but he needed the electricity, so he just started it up, and left the basement door open.
So we were in there, poking around, oohing and ahh-inng over our soon to be new house...the contractor showed up, and we were chatting with him. I bent over to pick up a stray nail or something, and when I stood up, I got a pronounced head rush. noticed the beginings of a slight headache coming on....took about 2 seconds to figure out what was going on, before I said "everybody OUT!"
(I knew that gen-set was a bad idea when I first saw it there )

I don't know...maybe my "awareness" of that subject is higher than some, perhaps from my flying days. they really drive the whole CO subject pretty hard. (its on the test! ). And then they remind you about it every 2 years when you have to re-do your physical.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't mean to equate the potential heat from a stove the same way you would with heat from a furnace..."set it and forget it". no, certainly, you can't do that. that would be "mindless heat", I guess you'd call that. yeah, you CAN light it up and go take a nap. just DON'T. and don't leave a space heater unattended where the dog might knock it over, and you don't give sharp objects to little children, etc, etc.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
not to steer the thread way off course, but how bad can it really be to "heat" with the stove or oven? if it were that dangerous, it wouldn't be safe to cook with it, either. even with the oven door closed, there's no outside vent for any exhaust gasses. they just wind up in the living space, anyway.



Maybe this topic should be split into another thread for all to read...moderators?

I realize many others have already thrown in their two cents on this topic, but here's mine...

My oldest child was born 14yrs and 8 months ago. The day before she was born, I lost a friend and coworker. He had gone on a scuba-diving/camping trip. It was cold, and he decided to heat the trailer with the stove/oven. My friend never woke up again. Official cause of death was asphyxia. He was an EMT – I always thought he should have known better.

Fast track to today... Our AS is currently minus a furnace, and we have used the stove top to take the chill out of the air right before bed, and/or as we first get up in the morning. It takes a very short amount of time before the trailer is toasty warm. We NEVER leave it going while we sleep, and ALWAYS have the roof vents open (I always leave them open at night regardless). Actually I may be a little paranoid, because we don't even leave the propane turned on overnight. I always shut it off at the tanks.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:45 AM   #11
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We need to not allow anything with power...it kills! The other thing to remember is that this life as we know it is terminal As long as you A) use common sense B) follow basic safety practices you will remain alive for a while, at least until it is your time to go. Every winter you read of someone that succumbs to CO poisioning caused by a faulty furnace, or using a generator during an ice storm, or using a stove for heat. You also read about people setting their homes ablaze using electric, propane, kerosene, and wood heaters. There plenty of stories of "safe" RV furnaces killing people. People using space heaters in tents, etc. etc. Maybe we all need to live in caves in Arizona...no heating required...but then you would have to worry about rock slides

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Old 11-23-2006, 09:55 AM   #12
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Maybe this topic should be split into another thread for all to read...moderators?
Agreed...'tis done.

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Old 11-23-2006, 10:42 AM   #13
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Does anyone have a CO detector in their trailer? It's the first thing I added to mine, what with the creepy old smudge-pot furnace and all.
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Old 11-23-2006, 10:48 AM   #14
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I have CO detectors all over the place, I have several house rated ones that I use when working in my trailer in the winter, and in my workshop. We have 2 in the house. When I get done with the rebuild I will be mounting a brand new RV rated CO, LP and smoke detectors in the Airstream. The few dollars they cost are cheap insurance. I have done some research on the differences between RV and home type detectors and the only conclusion that I have come to is that they use different approval bodies and the RV detectors MIGHT be built to withstand vibration and temperature extremes, but I have not seen any hard proof of this. I think the approvals have more to do with it more than anything.

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