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mayco · 05-19-2016, 01:43 PM

Ahhhhhhh, thank you. So the "risk" isnt in operating the refer necessarily, its about having your propane lines pressurized. Hmmmmmmmm. I guess they would be more vulnerable than the tank itself in an accident. Ok, thanks for the info. I think Ill still run my refer though.

Mike

PharmGeek · 05-19-2016, 02:02 PM

The question is perhaps better put this way:

For the people who get in wrecks, how many are in such a way to risk ignition of the gas? And of those sorts of instances, how many actually do see the gas ignite, kaboom?

I think it may be safe to say that as a base rate statistic, this is an extremely tiny number for such crashes up front, then of those numbers, how many see kaboom?

On the other hand, we could show that "yes, the risk of such a wreck like this is rare, but if and when the system is damaged, the risk of ignition is acutally high among the small number of instances."

Quite a bit of subjectivity in how people "feel" about such statistics in their lives...most of us do not think about it....evidence of this is the multitude of responses saying "Ive been doing this for 30+ years and never had a problem"....our personal experience and intuitions often will take precedence over an analysis of a seemingly obscure statistic (I do not say that as a bad thing entirely I assure you).

For me, I run with it on, but I always feel a tad wrong about it...mostly I feel I may be accepting a low statistical risk....it seems to me highly intuitive that keeping the system closed off lowers your risk significantly IF you are in a sort of accident that would compromise that system....?

I guess I pretty much hang my hat on the notion that that sort of wreck won't happen to me and if it does, it is very unlikely to go kaboom?

Statistically, I suspect it is not surprising that most will report entire lifetimes of not experiencing such a wreck...

Darn, starting to talk myself out of running the propane I think...I think I did this same thing last year, then forgot about it mostly, and ran it anyway.

mayco · 05-19-2016, 02:09 PM

Hehehehehehe, stop thinking so much! Youll ruin your day!
I also run my propane powered generator in transit when I want to use the air conditioning to cool the motorhome. I suppose EVERYTHING has some risk to it.
Here's hoping for safe travels to all of us!

Mike

jdalrymple · 05-19-2016, 02:12 PM

What if the gasoline tank of the TV gets ripped open....

What about compressed natural gas powered vehicles....

What about propane powered vehicles....

What if the tank falls off the trailer onto a railroad spike and gets punctured...

What if...

What if....

Sorry, had to do it.

Regards,

JD

FCStreamer · 05-19-2016, 02:21 PM

I guess what I was trying to discern is whether the practice of running the fridge on propane while in transit was inherently dangerous, like running with scissors or playing with matches at a fireworks stand. There are some things you just don't do, like over loading your tow vehicle, yet some people do it. I won't. I like to color within the lines. So I was curious as to what the line is.

There appears to be some tunnels where the law requires you turn off your propane. I for one would not travel through those tunnels with my propane open. Just because the law says I can't. I am funny that way. Law abiding. So I will program my route to not go through those tunnels.

If there is a law that says I cannot run with my propane tanks open, then I will shut them down. I am not aware of any such blanket state law in any of the states I plan to visit.

That's just how I roll. Thank you everyone for your input.

PharmGeek · 05-19-2016, 07:13 PM

I think in order to call it “inherently dangerous” you would have to frame it carefully.

Try this:

If you drive your trailer somewhere and get in a very significant collision that damages most of the trailer including but limited to components of the propane system, is having the propane on in that context “inherently dangerous”?

If a newb Airstream owner on their first trip, forgets to turn off the propane when entering a gas station because of their nerves and their 3 year old screaming in the backseat about dropping their blankey...and there happens to end up being a fuel spill or something nearby...is that “inherently dangerous”?

I think you have to use these specific presume scenarios...because if you do not, and just say “is leaving the propane on for your trip inherently dangerous?” to get to the kaboom, you have to assume all these other things that are likely very rare anyway....so generally I would argue that, GENERALLY, it is not “inherently dangerous”?

Thats my rationalization anyway

dcasr · 05-20-2016, 05:05 AM

It does come down to how you weigh the risks of running with an open propane line. Like many others, I've done it since I was young. 45 years of pulling a trailer with an open line, and gazillions of miles. No problem, but I've never had an accident. If you have a serious accident you may well total your tow vehicle and Airstream, and in that case, yes a line may rupture and both vehicles wind up burning up besides being badly physically damaged.

Your tow vehicle may catch fire from a ruptured gasoline line, and that means you would want to exit your vehicle quickly, and if you can't....well you know. That bad of an accident could also rupture your AS propane line and cause a fire and then you would want to exit your vehicle quickly, or same result.

My solution is to drive a little slower, look out for the other crazy people on the road, use tire monitors on all my wheels, take breaks to stay alert, hold my miles per day to 350-400, pray a lot, and roll on down the road with the fridge turned on. I did once have my gas tank straps break in the California desert, and drop the tank down on the pavement while we were still moving, but fortunately didn't leak or ignite.

In the end, the open propane line is a increased risk, but not an unwarranted risk, and many us can live with it. If it exceeds your risk comfort, by all means turn it off.

OTRA15 · 05-20-2016, 05:11 AM

Risk of gasoline fumes at a service station being ignited by fridge pilot light or Piezo igniter, while pumping gas.

KISS

Avoid analysis paralysis . . .

xrvr · 05-20-2016, 05:23 AM

The sky is falling!

paiceman · 05-20-2016, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted S.

Do you have a link for that product? Thanks.

Here is what I ordered and installed

Fireboy self activating marine fire extinguisher model MA2-025-FE241

Bud

paiceman · 05-20-2016, 05:33 AM

If one is in an accident severe enough to knock the hoses off the propane regulators my thought is the accident would be severe enough to knock the regulator off the tanks and thereby also opening up the tanks.

We've run open for as long as I can remember, 40+ years in all kinds of units and will continue to do so.

Rich W · 05-20-2016, 07:52 AM

I could find statistics only for the 5 yr. period 2003-2007 annual averages. In that period, passenger road vehicles accounted for 85% of all vehicle highway fires, 78% of all deaths.

Type ------- Fires ----------Deaths
Auto --------- 189,290(66%) -------- 283(59%)
MH/Camp --------- 2,920 (1%) ---------- 5 (1%)
Bus or trackless
trolley --------- 2,350 (1%) ---------- 7 (2%)
Travel trailer
designed to be
towed ---------- 1,330 (0%) --------- 2 (0%)
(more....)

Copy and paste doesn't work well in the forum editor and copying from a PDF to anything else is not good anyway. There are other statistics but I'm too lazy to manually enter them.

In any event, there's a far greater risk of a car fire than a trailer fire. The annual average is only 2 deaths per year for all of the trailer fires on the highway for any reason.

These statistics don't include fires inside a structure. I assume a car fire at a gas pump would be a vehicle structure.

I'm attaching the full report. Now if only could find something like this for tires.

**jcanavera** · 05-20-2016, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paiceman

If one is in an accident severe enough to knock the hoses off the propane regulators my thought is the accident would be severe enough to knock the regulator off the tanks and thereby also opening up the tanks. so.

And if that did happen the valves that we now have in tanks will snap shut due to the sudden high flow of gas. I've fought that battle with my BBQ tank. Turn the valve on too quick and the fast pressure release to charge the hose actives the safety and shuts the tank down.

Jack

Ted S. · 05-21-2016, 07:19 PM

Thanks switz for the post, very impressive.

Your fridge upgrade, what is the advantage of the unit you selected, just better performance?

switz · 05-21-2016, 11:16 PM

Get away from the propane and open flame discussion as well as the known issues of the 100+,year ammonia based technology that has been known to cause fries when there is an issue.

The DP150ilL is just the size to fit into the 23D existing opening height wise and we had to make a couple of roughly 1.5" wide hickory boards to fill the gap on either side of the new fridge. Despite the narrower width, the new unit has more storage with a really usable freezer section, a light in the interior. and better insulation.

The DP2600 is shorter than the existing unit in the Classic, we will see how the other parameters work out in the fall.

cdufault · 05-23-2016, 10:41 AM

It seems to come down to probability and appetite for risk: #1 ruined/poisonous food vs. #2 kaboom. Depending on length of trip, #1 probability could be high, but the consequence is moderate. #2 probability is low, but the consequence is high. I'm OK with the small risk of kaboom vs. large risk of spoiled food.

dcasr · 05-24-2016, 05:03 AM

My older Dometic frig in our AS had a shut off feature for gas stations. If it was running on propane and hooked up to power from the TV it would sense the engine being turned off, and it would shut the frig off. After the engine was restarted there was a delay on the frig restart.

I replaced that frig and need to reread my new Dometic's stats to see if that still hold true. I'm using diesel now and at least that's a little less volatile especially if I'm at the big truck fueling islands.