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07-27-2014, 08:27 PM
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#121
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interstateflyer
So then, since the consequence of the fan being off is reduced cooling performance and is not a safety issue, why doesn't Airstream install an on/off switch in every trailer?
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I had a 19CCD '06 vintage that had the fridge fan switch. Of course, that fan sounded like a buzz saw when ever it was on, and I replaced it with a pair of much quieter fans secured to the upper vent door....blowing OUT to pull the air rather than push it.
I have seen many, many anomalies in the construction and assembly of Airstreams, and other RVs as well. Why? Only the bean counters at Thor have those answers. Do I generally make corrections/upgrades when asked......absolutely!
And BTW, that fridge fan should be on a thermostatic control and only operating in high ambient temperatures or direct sunlight exposure on the fridge side of the trailer, conditions that are conducive to degraded fridge condenser performance.
Why does Airstream (and other RV manufacturers as well) continue to install a product with known safety and performance issues when other alternatives are readily available?
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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07-27-2014, 10:16 PM
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#122
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Rivet Master
2017 25' International
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Los Osos
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 916
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Mine goes on at 65 F on the shady side.
__________________
2017 Airstream International Serenity 25FB
2016 RAM 2500 Crew Cab Cummins 6.7 Diesel
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07-28-2014, 09:57 AM
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#123
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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Where do you all source the thermostatic switches?
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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07-28-2014, 12:14 PM
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#124
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Rivet Master
2008 25' Classic
Full Time
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
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Had a fridge fan with switch on my previous trailer, 2009 Casita, with 4 cu/ft fridge. It didn't seem to help and I never used it. The thermo sensor was located too close to the pipe coming out of the boiler so even on cooler days the fan would stay on.
I found some performance increase by insuring the heat had a better way to get out but making a curved Relfletix baffle so heat couldn't build up above the fridge. Not sure how Airstream baffles fridges with side vents but maybe it can be done.
Kelvin
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07-28-2014, 03:37 PM
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#125
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1 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Coon Rapids
, Minnesota
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14
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Thanks Lewster
Great information. I stand corrected.
Thanks for posting that.
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07-29-2014, 12:36 AM
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#126
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Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,495
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Additional notes and comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
Where do you all source the thermostatic switches?
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I believe the switch that we added is a simple single-pole toggle switch from Home Depot and was attached to a mounting bracket from Home Depot.
Normally, we leave the fan switch turned on so the refrigerator runs most efficiently. We only turn it off at bedtime to ensure a good night's sleep.
Certainly, another option is to replace the OEM fan with a quieter fan as some others have done.
[A side note to interstateflyer (post #113): when you get direct answers (posts #115, 116, & 119) to your questions, it would be nice to say "Thanks", and then let us know what you decide.]
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07-29-2014, 07:03 AM
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#127
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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07-29-2014, 07:11 PM
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#128
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2 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
Currently Looking...
east stroudsburg
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 83
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Whats flammable is the hydrogen used to pressurize the cooling units.
Manufacturers could use helium ( like I do ) but since it is much more expensive the stay with hydrogen.
Stu Snyder
Snyders RV refrigeration LLC
The super heated ammonia becomes a highly flammable plasma under 400 psi pressure and causes the ignition. Again, this happens either when operating on LP or electric!
The Norcold recalls focused on installing a high temperature sensor on the boiler tube to remove the 12 VDC from the control board, which then closes the gas valve to HOPEFULLY remove the ignition source.
This recall does NOTHING to mitigate the fire potential when the RV fridge is operating on 120 VAC electric, as a couple of 600 degree heating elements encased in steel tubes and wrapped in insulation retain enough heat, even after power has been removed, to create a combustible environment for the escaping ammonia.
The main point is that ANY cooling fans have NO RELATIONSHIP with any fire mitigation potential.
Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357[/QUOTE]
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07-29-2014, 07:20 PM
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#129
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Stu,
That's the common misconception. I thought that also until I was directly involved in a Norcold 1200 fire inquiry. Hydrogen is lighter than ammonia and does NOT migrate DOWN to the boiler tube location from the upper sections of the cooling unit where the hydrogen is found and where the majority of leaks and subsequent fires occur.
The rep from Norcold that was at the judicial inquiry specifically told me that it was the super-heated ammonia and NOT the hydrogen that was at fault in the fire in question, which started AT the boiler tube and ignited the AMMONIA as it blew across the hot electric heating elements.
Right from the corporate 'horses mouth!
Major class action lawsuits against Norcold and Dometic are in the works in California now. I personally hope that they get sued right out of business for producing a KNOWN HAZARD and trying to mitigate the combustive potential by applying, in effect, a band-aid to the problem with their high temperature sensors instead of re-designing the cooling unit to PREVENT the potential problem to begin with!!!!
I'll stick with Danfoss compressor units...thank you very much!!!
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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08-11-2014, 05:05 PM
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#130
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Rivet Master
2017 25' International
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Los Osos
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 916
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Airstream authorized my local A/S dealer to install a fan switch inside my three week old International 23D. It is just like the one that comes standard in the International 19.
I had to disconnect the fan during a recent trip because we weren't getting much sleep. Now we have some control over when he fan runs.....like not at night. It still screams when on. I mounted it with rubber o-rings....no difference.
I ordered this SilenX fan but it came with a "computer" type connector, so I'm not sure that it can be substituted for the OEM fan.
__________________
2017 Airstream International Serenity 25FB
2016 RAM 2500 Crew Cab Cummins 6.7 Diesel
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08-11-2014, 10:13 PM
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#131
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1 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Coon Rapids
, Minnesota
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interstateflyer
I ordered this SilenX fan but it came with a "computer" type connector, so I'm not sure that it can be substituted for the OEM fan.
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If it's a 12 volt fan, you can just splice the wires. If the fan runs backwards, reverse them. Disconnect the battery before wiring it. Otherwise, if you short across the hot and neutral fan wires, you'll blow the fuse (usually the glass fuse on the circuit board).
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08-11-2014, 11:58 PM
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#132
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Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE
, AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
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This fan comes wired with two connectors that are standard for most PCs. If neither mates to the OEM fan harness, you can cut the larger connector off and splice the fan wires to the existing (Airstream) fan harness.
There are only two wires, positive and negative; and wiring them incorrectly only results in the fan running in reverse. After physically mounting the new fan, just use trial and error to figure out which wires go where (the fan should blow outward), before completing the splices.
To make future replacement easier (these fans usually last only a couple of seasons, at least in the desert southwest), you may wish to buy a connector (with pigtails) that mates to the new SilenX fan; and splice the pigtail wires into the existing Airstream harness. That way, when you replace this fan in a few years, all you'll have to do is unplug and remove the old fan; then install and plug in the new replacement.
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08-13-2014, 02:11 PM
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#133
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Rivet Master
2017 25' International
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Los Osos
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
This fan comes wired with two connectors that are standard for most PCs. If neither mates to the OEM fan harness, you can cut the larger connector off and splice the fan wires to the existing (Airstream) fan harness.
There are only two wires, positive and negative; and wiring them incorrectly only results in the fan running in reverse. After physically mounting the new fan, just use trial and error to figure out which wires go where (the fan should blow outward), before completing the splices.
To make future replacement easier (these fans usually last only a couple of seasons, at least in the desert southwest), you may wish to buy a connector (with pigtails) that mates to the new SilenX fan; and splice the pigtail wires into the existing Airstream harness. That way, when you replace this fan in a few years, all you'll have to do is unplug and remove the old fan; then install and plug in the new replacement.
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Great suggestions.
I noticed that there is a huge difference in wire size between those going to the installed fan and the SilenX. Should I be concerned?
__________________
2017 Airstream International Serenity 25FB
2016 RAM 2500 Crew Cab Cummins 6.7 Diesel
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08-13-2014, 02:45 PM
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#134
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Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE
, AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
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The heavier wires are standard for PC power supplies, and these fans draw very little current. The smaller wires will carry the current fine, so you don't have to be concerned about them.
The reason I suggested splicing in the heavier wires is that they are easier to work with, and they will survive splicing and repeated handling and mating better.
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09-21-2014, 03:37 PM
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#135
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
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What is the correct temp rating for the replacement thermal switch?
__________________
MICHAEL
Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
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10-15-2014, 06:46 PM
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#136
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Rivet Master
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Bend
, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 761
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Very interesting thread. Just came back from 2 nights in my 2015 25RB FC. The fan noise was horrible. I just disconnected the thermistor for the the trip, the plan is to replace the fan and improve the mounting isolation. Last resort will be a thermistor that comes on at a slightly higher temp.
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10-15-2014, 08:06 PM
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#137
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsmblue
Very interesting thread. Just came back from 2 nights in my 2015 25RB FC. The fan noise was horrible. I just disconnected the thermistor for the the trip, the plan is to replace the fan and improve the mounting isolation. Last resort will be a thermistor that comes on at a slightly higher temp.
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We have the same model. It makes huge difference on cooling of that fridge compartment if you prop open the upper fridge vent door. It helps a little bit more to prop open lower fridge vent door.
If you park that side of the trailer in shade or away from the sun, or have a street side awning to shade the compartment, then prop open the vent doors, the fan will come on much less, if at all. Also ventilate the inside of the trailer so it does not get hot, and the fridge compartment will stay cooler.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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10-16-2014, 07:56 AM
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#138
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Rivet Master
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Bend
, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 761
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Hi Doug,
Thanks for the info. We are in Oregon, it did not get higher then 68F in the day time and we were parked under trees with all awnings out.
I think during the winter months we could get away with not having a fan on at all, but l like things to work well, so I will mod and post back when I have an update
The new fan should arrive tomorrow, then I need to source some rubber orings/washers and we will see how that works before replacing with a different temp thermistor...
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10-16-2014, 08:37 AM
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#139
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Rivet Master
2008 25' Classic
Full Time
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
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Dometic recommends a maximum gap between the trailer wall and the back of the cooling unit tubing. If there is too much gap a smaller percentage of air flow goes over the tubes. I notice on my 25fb Airstream built out a wall from the shell so there is only a couple of inches clearance. I have the roof vent on mine so I don't have a fan. Don't they do that on these side vent configurations? Do they install a curved baffle at the top of the fridge compartment to direct air to the upper side vent? Sounds like they are trying brute force methods to overcome poor airflow design.
Kelvin
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10-16-2014, 09:08 AM
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#140
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Rivet Master
2008 23' Safari FB SE
Boulder
, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 510
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We replaced our OEM fan 3 years ago with 2 silenx fans. We fabricated an aluminum holder for the 2nd fan just like the one that came from AS. The fans are still going strong and you can't even hear them run. Our AS dealer temp tested our refrigerator and it works just fine.
This is probably one or the best mods we ever did. The old fan was so noisy we couldn't sleep.
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