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Old 09-06-2005, 11:35 PM   #1
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Interesting Safari Floor Plan

While surfing eBay I stumbled across this 1970 Safari with the rear bedroom & rear/side bath. I've seen this floor plan for the Caravels and Globetrotters of '69 & '70, but never the Safaris. Was this a one off or an option for 1970? The aluminatic in me needs to know.

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Old 09-07-2005, 12:13 AM   #2
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I assume this is the link: 1970 Safari

Following the two links in Shari's post in this thread leads me to be so very doubtful that this eBay seller is as sharp as he says he is: "I have had over 30 Airstreams and have significant knowledge on Airstream campers." I'd say it is a bit closer to as-found condition and the 'buy it now' price is something around 2-4 times what it is worth. Shari's archive photo link should suggest some answer to your question about floor plan.

This may have been parked in deep grass for the rear bumper to be falling off. What one finds inside the banana & belly wrap is usually just as rusty... "The floor where you walk is solid." ??? I'll bet all the cushions and curtains are gone because this was one musty smelling trailer! Anyway, the floor would likely have more than just the one area to be replaced. Broken or missing curved windows? Ouch!

And finally: "not sure about outside lights because the light cord is missing so I cannot check the running lights" -- does this mean there is no hookup umbilical? How the heck did this guy tow it 400 miles. Definitely "as found" condition. This is a huge piece of work.

Furnace may be old pre-recall death trap -- total replacement. Water heater -- after 35 years??
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Old 09-07-2005, 01:13 AM   #3
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oops... forgot the link. sooo sorry

I agree with you about the condition of this trailer.... way too rough for the $$$. But back to the question... Has anyone ever seen this layout on a Safari???

-Toddster
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Old 09-07-2005, 05:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddster
I agree with you about the condition of this trailer.... way too rough for the $$$. But back to the question... Has anyone ever seen this layout on a Safari???
-Toddster
Yeah, I've seen that floorplan before in a Safari, but I thik it's pretty rare in that length, probably more prevalent, but still rare, in the shorter lengths.

I agree - way overpriced for a unit in need of that much work. Interesting that the seller is in Niles, Michigan and has had "over 30" Airstreams. I think there is another eBay seller from Niles, Michigan (mrvintageman?) who has also sold several Airstreams over eBay. Alter ego? Or coincidence?
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Old 09-07-2005, 01:23 PM   #5
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Maybe they're more common than I thought. I just found this one on eBay as well (and this time I remembered to include the link):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AIRST...73753466QQrdZ1

I like this layout - if it were on the west coast I might be looking at upgrading. Oh well.....

-Happy Travels

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Old 09-07-2005, 04:41 PM   #6
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Always a good day to travel - if you find something you really like.

I have a little soft spot for the 69/70 trailers. They are the last of the real wood vintage trailers of course until the 80 something turns vintage and the Oak will then be classified as the last of the wood vintage trailers.

I have followed this forum for two years now - and I am quite amazed at peoples impression of way too much. I think there has been a spree of people picking up trailers for under a 1000.00 but without explaining the true condition of those trailers - or the circumstances. finding a trailer out in a field and offering a couple of hundred to a fellow who may not be in the "circle" is not true valueing.

Another point is the market measuring stick - on "Price vs Condition" all well and good - and the only measuring stick around that is documented - but what is the date of that document now. I used it 2 years ago - and it has not changed and how was the initial figure determined and has it been rechecked against market and demand and availability.

With the butchers out there for art and profit - the vintage trailers will become even more few and far.

Onto this Safari - an excellent buy - in my opinion - we picked up our 69 for $4500 and plopped about $3K more into it so far.

To see a unit with the majority of the veneer still intacked on those 69's/70's is a feat in itself. Most have soft spots somewhere along the way. The bumber design is the cause of the rust - not the grass as most people suspect. It rains and drips into the bumper compartment that then leaks into the ridge of the bottom bumper curve - sits and rusts.

We also have the tell tale signs of water leaks at the back - more than likely a broken water pump that pumped half the fresh tank out and sat - veneer especially untreated will soak up the water real quick and then warp the doors and flake the veneer off in no time. One really good reason to choose an acrylic sealed finish rather than wax.

The layout of both those safaris - from what I have seen over the years is not uncommon. As the dinettes where more functional for the family camping style that attracted people to the smaller units. The Tradewinds, Overlanders, Ambassadors and Soverigns seemed to be more suited for the retirees or the transitional folks with the teenagers barely interested in traveling with M&D. The family that had the children and wanted the bigger units seemed to opt for the bunk bed additions. Just observations mind you.

With a bit of floor work - a new bumber, and updated soft goods and some tlc on that wood if you want to see what it could look like just check out what we did with our Globe Trotter - member photos - GT6921

We just went to a Unit Rally and had quite a bit of interest in our little baby - many could not believe that she is all original (except for the curtains - and I still cover the original cushions - procrastinate have not got around to reupholstering!! )

"Cheap" people are driving the value of these time peaces down - they are antiques folks regardless of their condition - if you have something good to start with the better your project will be - if you want cheap then you may as well look at a gutted trailer for $500-1000 to begin with.

If we did not already have 3 I would snap both those Safaris up in a flash - high gas prices are going to drive the lightweight trailer market up - so hang on to what you have and get out there and snap up those babies - cause they are CHEAP compared to what you pay for the heavy trailers.....
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Old 09-07-2005, 06:28 PM   #7
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69GT21,
I appreciate that the seller of the '70 Safari that started this thread posted some very revealing photo's in his eBay auction, as many don't, but what I see in them makes this out to be a significant project (salvagable, yes but I think I could find less of a project for $4000, with a little effort):
  • A section of floor below the rear couch appears to be gone - rotted away. See the photo with the wires - I think we can see the belly pan.
  • The bumper rust would require me to make sure the frame was not suffering the same deterioration.
  • The trim strip above the rear bumper shows signs of rear end separation (notice the trim is bent from banging on the frame).
  • Sections of the cabinet doors, drawers, and other wood in the kitchen area look to be in questionable condition. Definitely would require a first hand inspection before plunking down any money.
  • The stove looks rusty, or at least very dirty.
  • All soft goods (cushions, drapes, etc.) are missing. Why? At a minimum, they would have to be replaced, but you can find trailers that do not require this, if you don't want to spend the time/money to replace them.
  • Not sure, but it probably needs a new axle.
  • This trailer has neither a patio awning, nor a front window rock guard. Many of this vintage do.
  • The clear coat shows the typical fading on the roof.
  • Add to that the acknoweldged "untested" appliances (assume they may need to be replaced).
Many of these items are expensive if you pay to have them corrected, or are time consuming (and still expensive?) if you do them yourself.

I'm not trying to pick this trailer apart, as I am sure there are some in worse condition and I know there are ones on eBay that are much less truthfully represented. I'm just trying to fairly assses it's condition. I think a better unit can be had for $4000. I certainly wouldn't bid that much on this one without a first hand inspection.

But frankly, that's just my opinion. Others are free to see things differently. If someone does buy this trailer, I truthfully hope it lives up to their expectations - I doubt it would for me.
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Old 09-10-2005, 10:13 AM   #8
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I've seen this Safari on Ebay, just two months ago. I recognized the bungee holding on the bumper. MrVintageman was the buyer...for $2500!!! He replaced a window, with plexiglass!!! Is plexiglass side front windows worth $1500? He didn't even fix the bumper!

Well, what do you know? He only got offered $1000 for it. Looks like the market is starting to find its own level. And yes, at $2500 I thought this was a decent deal for a fixer upper. At $4000, I disagree, no way. There are plenty of coaches to be had out there for this alone and they can be camped in. The amount of sweat equity alone on this one is gonna be huge, let alone new systems, pipes, welding, axle, windows....need I go on? And I'm just talking about the problems the seller admits to!


BTW, this may a case of mis categorized Ebay selling . The original seller put it on regular ebay instead of eBay motors. MrVintageman found it and picked it up and hopes to sell it on another category for double!

This just irks me that he didn't even try to fix any of the things that would make it usable, just tried to flip it as fast as possible. Hopefully he's learned his lesson.

John
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Old 01-09-2007, 09:17 PM   #9
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1970 Rare Floor Plan

Todster, et al.,

We are fairly new to the airstreamforums but have loved the threads and just found this one tonight. this floorplan you mention is ours to a T. If your interested, I can scan the plan specs from the original manual. Give me a few days and I'll post our rebuild pics.

We picked up '70 Safari 23' single axle about 4 years ago here in NC for $3000. All original, good condition (an airline pilot owned it--he was picky for detail). We parked it for guests and did not attend to the leaks....wellllllll last fall we recommitted to it and fixed the rusted rear frame and rear floor to the tune of $6000 (also, reset the A/C, a curved front window, rear plumbing, and afew more things). We are just now completing the leak chase, carpet, awning, curtains, screens, upholstery, and putting the bed frames back. Everything as much like it was as we can!
All the interior wood is original with some water stain at the bottoms to be expected. I'm replacing rusted screws as we go.

Yes, the suburban furnace most likely is original. The thread mentioned the R word "recall". What gives?

The Dometic refrig will get new gasket this week.

Though I'm having a bit of trouble with the 8-Track player.

The satisfaction of rebuild is really wonderful, though at times frustrating.

Thanks guys and gals for the advice and encouragement.

David
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Old 01-10-2007, 07:46 AM   #10
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Suburban Furnace Recall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Cove
Todster, et al.,


Yes, the suburban furnace most likely is original. The thread mentioned the R word "recall". What gives?



David
There was a recall on furnaces for models in the 70's. I am sure a search can find the recall for you. I am sorry I did not have the link. You at least need to have a working carbon monoxide detector inside the unit when you are using the furnace.
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Old 01-10-2007, 08:44 AM   #11
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Hi guys...

Reading with interest this thread on 23' Safaris, as i just acquired mine last June, and promptly RE-joined the WBCCI after almost a 30 yr absence. I was fortunate enough to be in the sacred fraternity of "Airstream Brats"...as i traveled extensively with my Grandparents in their brand new 1969 23' Safari Twin. Their names were Chuck and Alma Anderson, from Detroit, MI..WBCCI #22425.

After a long and basically fruitless search to find their old trailer, i found an exact clone, early production 1969 23' Safari Twin, in W Palm Bch, FL, last summer.

My trailer is mostly original, and even came from Mich. originally, sold through Northwoods in Flint. I am anxious to "take up where Gramps left off" back in 1976, when failing health forced him to sell the beloved Safari.

I guess i still have two issues with this trailer that are pretty huge, as size of projects go, and these are the furnace, and the water heater. The furnace has gone unused for several yrs, and I have no idea of it's condition, and secondly, the original water heater apparently has a crack in the tank, or possibly rusted out. I have fixed several splits in the water pipes, and have temporarily by-passed the water heater, as to make the cold water system functional. All things considered, is it recommended to replace the original LP water heater with the same?? It looks like a huge job !! I was debating an electric unit..... like on my vintage Chris Craft Cabin Cruiser.....much less hassle and less fabricating.

I may be way off base on a couple of these things, that is why i joined this group...you guys seem to have all the answers, and I am a virtual "newbie" to the world of Airstreaming.....

Lastly, I would LOVE to chat with other owners of 69 23' Safaris...Who knows...maybe Gramp's old Airstream is still out there and making someone happy!!

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I would appreciate any advice, or replys!!

Scott Anderson
Grosse Ile, MI
WBCCI # 22426
(formerly # 22425, 1968-1976)
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:10 AM   #12
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Hi Scott -- and welcome to the the Forums! When you were an Airstream Brat blogging was done with a wet wool blanket and a lot of birch bark.

Airstreams are built to go off the grid. I'll see one with a broken Dometic fridge replaced by a small house fridge and only think it is handicapped. Being off-grid capable adds to the value in my opinion. I love finding small nat'l forest campgrounds where I can fish, canoe or hike -- and a few come to mind near vibrant small towns. Most of our camping is in state parks and I do reserve ahead and seek a hookup; if it's a last minute trip I might miss out on those and willingly accept an unimproved site. I like the versatility.

I do not really know if any electric-only water heater is available fit in the same space but kinda doubt it. RV appliances are modular across the industry -- and across time. So a new 6- or 10-gallon replacement is available. Yes, the plumbing hookup tends to be in a different location. It's good that you've pressurized the system and are not seeing any leaks.

Take a look at http://www.airforums.com/forums/319312-post4.html for an idea on costs. Camping World could do this for you. I know on my Argosy that I'd have to remove the rubrail trim strip around part of the trailer and some rivets to let them have access -- don't think I'd want them doing that for me! Better yet in my case is an old, established small RV dealer about 40 miles away that used to handle Airstreams -- if you could just find somebody like that. For better outcome I'd think an owner would want to take on any sheetmetal handling. Not all Airstream dealers will take on vintage repairs but some do. I don't know your area.

A period in the 1970s saw Suburban furnaces recalled due to a deteriorating part allowing carbon monoxide escape. I'd certainly only have yours looked at by a pro -- but many shops wouldn't know what they were looking at and would want to replace. That's not a bad outcome... Just depends who you can find. Best wishes ... and keep us in the loop on your very nice Safari!
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