Winter camping hints?

[Melody Ranch]

Who was it that had their picture on The Weather Channel yesterday (6 October)....Spearfish, South Dakota.....under two feet of snow and stuck because all the roads were closed by Hi-way Dept. and Hi-way Patrol. It was a great reminder to be aware of your surroundings and situation. Wonder if they were ready....REALLY ready.

[Len n Jeanne]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

That is kind of counter-intuitive, to keep a roof vent open. I'd keep a window cracked open instead, and the roof vent closed. Since heat rises, keeping the roof vent open causes the loss of a lot of heat.

Another thing that might help is a canvas cover over the rooftop A/C unit, and/or plastic sheeting taped over the air conditioner vents inside. You can lose a lot of heat through the a/c plenum.

I think you're right, but the trouble is, in the 16 footer, the only windows that open are right by the beds, which gets really drafty. (Neither one of us is comfortable sleeping on the inside of the fixed east-west bed.) We don't keep the vent open more than a crack, but one thing the up-draft does well enough is to remove damp air. I've experimented leaving the bathroom vent only open, but it doesn't ventilate well and that toilet seat sure gets cold at 3:00 a.m.

[Len n Jeanne]

Originally Posted by Gringo

Well, we do have a 39 gallon fresh water tank, insulated and tucked up under a pan. I was wondering about dumping something like five gallons of antifreeze in there, as we don't use that water for drinking anyhow. We do use it for showers, normally, but that's the kind of thing it might make sense to use the campground facilities for during winter camping. That also helps some of the wet towel issues with humidity. Just don't take them back into the trailer wet. Things dry quickly up there outside, anyhow.

With antifreeze in the base trailer supply, then antifreeze would also be going into the gray and black water tanks. Would this be workable? Wal Mart has plenty antifreeze.

Our salesman at Can-Am recommended that after winterizing, we go ahead and use the waste-water tank (our unit just has one) but put some windshield washer fluid down with the waste-water, as it is a mild anti-freeze. We've done this many times with our winterized Bambi, with no problems.

On a few occasions we've also lined the dry toilet bowl with a suitably sized garbage bag, filled it with a little peat moss (kept in a nearby container) and then tossed the garbage bag in the CG dumpster as necessary. We've had a port-a-potty previously and they aren't fun to clean out. The peat moss system is more aesthetically pleasing. You could also use saw dust or shredded paper-- but something super absorbant.

Showers are not viable with a winterized AS (your hot water tank is drained, for one thing.) If no CG showers are available, one can get by with a sponge bath.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne

The peat moss system is more aesthetically pleasing. You could also use saw dust or shredded paper-- but something super absorbant.

Kitty litter. That kind of IS what it's made for, after all!

[Gringo]

I finally got a reply from the State Park people in CO. I'll just quote most of it here:
"
Thank you for your interest in staying here at Chatfield. We do have winter camping, and as of Oct 15th they are first come, first serve, no reservations. In December, D-loop will be the only loop open. The sites are $20 a night and they include electric. Water is avaiable at the dump station, and the restrooms in D-loop will be open, they have shower and laundry facilities. In addition to camping you will also need a Colorado State Parks Pass if you do not have one already. A daily is $8 and an annual is $70.


Colorado State Parks only allow camping 14 days in a 45 day period in each park, even in winter. You can always stay here at Chatfield for the two weeks, and then move to another nearby park, such as Cherry Creek State Park or Barr Lake Park which are also nice parks.


Hope to see you in December, if you have any questions feel free to ask."

So that pretty much answers a few of my questions. Just electricity at the site, with water at the dump station.

With a Hyatt House and an Embassy Suites just a few miles away, near shopping centers, I have to keep reminding myself that the difference between an ordeal and an adventure is all in your attitude about it.

[RangerJay]

If the below website is right then Denver's "average" temperatures for cold weather months will fall below freezing at night but climb to above freezing during the day - what you need to plan for is the one-off night (or nights) that are on the cold side of the average ......

Climate in Denver, Colorado

Assuming this is correct - and leaning to the safe side - you might want to consider:

• Camp only where you have access to cold-weather fresh water and a dumping facility.
• Instead of using heated water hoses use your on-board fresh water tank - take out your water hose only to refill.
• Same with waste-water tanks - enclose your valves or use heated cable - and take out your slinky only when dumping.
• On cold nights be sure to use your furnace to keep water lines in the wall heated and tanks heated.
• Always keep air moving and a fresh air vent opened to minimize condensation in cold weather.
• Always use exhaust fans when doing any activity that generates moisture (showers, cooking).
• Install insulators in your roof vents
• If it is reasonably affordable and practical consider insulated ground to trailer skirting.

This is doable without crazy expenditures or effort (again - assuming most daytime temperatures will be above freezing.)

Good luck.


Jay

[TBRich]

Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne

....<snip>.... I've experimented leaving the bathroom vent only open, but it doesn't ventilate well and that toilet seat sure gets cold at 3:00 a.m.

We always leave the bath vent open, winter and summer... For your situation, you might try leaving the bathroom vent open and propping the bathroom door open as well (4 or 5 inches at least) to see if that helps. We have found that this does two things in our rig...it helps with the overall ventilation and it keeps the bath warmer. (There is a opening at the top of the bathroom door in a 19' but it doesn't seem to be enough for good ventilation.)

[Gringo]

Good idea. The gap in our bathroom door is at the bottom of the door, which should work even better I think.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by TBRich

We always leave the bath vent open, winter and summer... For your situation, you might try leaving the bathroom vent open and propping the bathroom door open as well (4 or 5 inches at least) to see if that helps. We have found that this does two things in our rig...it helps with the overall ventilation and it keeps the bath warmer. (There is a opening at the top of the bathroom door in a 19' but it doesn't seem to be enough for good ventilation.)

On a particularly humid day, I had the AC cranked and noticed a rapid accumulation of condensation on the aluminum near the AC and on the AC unit itself. That hadn't happened before and I got nervous until I saw that I had left a fantastic fan hood up (fan not on) and after closing it, the condensation disappeared. Is that just a coincidence or would the open vent work best with heat rather than AC? Sounds like you keep the bathroom vent open all the time.

[TBRich]

We have such low humidity here for most of the year that I'm not a good judge of humidity-related issues such as condensation. Sorry.

Yes, we do leave the bathroom vent open whether we are using the furnace or the AC ... or just the fantastic vents. We do not leave the bathroom vent fan on, though ... we only use that when needed or when using the shower ... to take shower humidity out.

We close the vent while towing. We used to leave it open while it was stored at home, but we found that because of how the unit is situated next to the house that the vent was allowing unpleasant odors in ... so now we leave it closed in storage ... and have no more bad odors inside.

[wbrownrr]

My wife and I were in Denver without our Airstream two winters ago. We were there the first part of January, and a storm blew in, overnight temps dropped to -9 degrees (yep, 9 below zero) with daytime highs staying in the single digits (above zero). Pretty cold. Admittedly, we are Californians and a frosty night is a big deal where we live, but our experience did show us how variable a Colorado winter can be. Don't get me wrong, we love Denver and loved our stay there. Just saying that it can, and does, get pretty chilly. Properly prepared, it will be a wonderful Airstream adventure!

[Len n Jeanne]

Great advice, everyone! Yes, I did finally get around to leaving the BR door open-- it helped some.

We keep the thermostat on a low setting, and pile on extra bedding.

wbrownrr makes a good point: that average winter temperatures fluctuate around more extreme highs and lows. Maybe you don't need to plan for a record-breaking cold snap, but I would plan on something significantly lower at night than the monthly average low.

Alas, Bambi is now winterized and in storage till April, when we plan to head to southern Utah. This is still wintertime in the mountains, however; and white-out snowstorms are entirely possible. We may keep Bambi winterized till we get into the sun belt.

Protagonist: interesting alternative. At present we are gardeners rather than cat owners.

[mojo]

We just had 5" of snow here in Durango yesterday. The day before it was 60° and sunny. The aspens are still green and changing. The weather can change very quickly and catch one off guard. On the other side of that I have sat outside in the sun in a T-shirt in December.

I suppose if you were hell bent on X-country skiing or snow shoeing in a remote area it would be reasonable. But I don't like camping in the snow and have been caught several times with drastic weather changes. Boondocking with just a generator and running the furnace continuously puts a real strain on the batteries. Towing in the snow is no fun either. My idea of winter camping is storing the trailer in Phoenix and making tow-free trips there to enjoy desert winters!

[eubank]

I couldn't agree more from our abode at 8,400 feet! From this morning:


IMGP3257 by lynneubank, on Flickr


Lynn

Originally Posted by mojo

We just had 5" of snow here in Durango yesterday. The day before it was 60° and sunny. The aspens are still green and changing. The weather can change very quickly and catch one off guard. On the other side of that I have sat outside in the sun in a T-shirt in December.

I suppose if you were hell bent on X-country skiing or snow shoeing in a remote area it would be reasonable. But I don't like camping in the snow and have been caught several times with drastic weather changes. Boondocking with just a generator and running the furnace continuously puts a real strain on the batteries. Towing in the snow is no fun either. My idea of winter camping is storing the trailer in Phoenix and making tow-free trips there to enjoy desert winters!

[JamuJoe]

Originally Posted by Gringo

We have to go up to Denver for a few weeks starting in December. We're considering taking the 27FB out of storage and using it instead of a hotel room. I looked up typical Denver Dec-Jan temps and see the nightly average down in the mid teens.

I did try the "Search" function here for Cold Weather and Winter, but all I found so far were tips on winterizing. I'm looking more for tips on surviving.

Three years ago we got caught in an early season snowfall in CO and it got down to 17 deg. and the campground power went out due to all the down power lines because of heavy snow snapping tree limbs that still had the leaves on them. Whoa. I ended up hooking the AS to the rented tow vehicle and idling the diesel all night for power to run the furnace, etc.

I know I need to make up a heated section of hose to get from the campgrounds water to the trailer. What else do I need to think about? 200 Wal Mart space heaters?

Gringo,
Our first night in our new 2011FC23FB was spent off the grid in Chaco Canyon, and it got down to 17º. We were snug and warm. Since then we have spent many nights in freezing temps and have been comfortable. Solar power (2 x 85W panels, MPPT controller and AGM batteries) provides sufficient power for us to maintain furnace usage. In a CG, I do not leave the hoses out overnight, and use a small electric heater in the rear bath. Even when on shore power, I use the furnace rather than the heat pump, as it provides heat to the plumbing and tanks. Last January, we picked up our unit from the dealer in ABQ after servicing, and found that the water pump had frozen during an extended freeze. It took only a few hours in the CG on shore power to thaw it out with no damage. When towing in cold weather, I set the furnace to 55º so that the interior is faster to warm when we stop for the night. I do turn it off if stopping for fuel. No heavy curtains, no bubble wrap, nothing special for additional insulation beyond rugs on the floor.

On a freezing night last December, we stopped along the Columbia River in WA to overnight in a city campground with hookups. The Dometic thermostat failed, and we had no furnace or heat pump. The little electric heater that we carry for the rear bath was moved midships, and kept us sufficiently comfortable. It's a good backup. I also have a Mr Buddy propane heater as additional backup.

I winterized three times last year, and will likely do the same this year, as we just can't resist using the Airstream for longer trips, at any time of year.