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Old 12-03-2012, 11:57 PM   #43
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Deja vu?

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Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
4WD just means the wrecker has farther to travel to your truck once you are well and truly stuck.

Get what you want. I don't anticipate taking an expensive TT anywhere I can't get it out. So far, so good, at forty years worth. 2WD works well for me as I don't want the maintenance headaches of something I can't otherwise justify. The lower purchase, ownership and operating costs of 2WD are impossible for any 4WD to match.

For those who trade every seven years it may not matter. Depreciation, alone, makes talk about those kind of expense differences trivial.

A pickup is hardly the best choice for TV anyway . . . what else is it supposed to do as a solo vehicle (would be the better context to ask to question within).

.
I think you said this about 4WD once before in another thread.

I think I replied, "Do you suppose that has anything to do with you living in one of the warmest and flattest parts of the country?"

However my memory is not that good, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be that much of a smart ass.

What do you think?


Ken
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:59 PM   #44
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Hi, I owned a Jeep CJ-5 once, for 10 years and it was mostly for playing around when using four wheel drive. My wife's BMW X-3 has all wheel drive and it probably helps when driving on wet, rainy streets. My Lincoln is two wheel drive and has towed our trailer through 13 States and 3 Provences for eight years and has never had to be pulled out from being stuck. I have towed from Northern California into Oregon and back in the snow. I have towed in South Dakota in snow and on ice. Oh gosh, did I mention that I didn't have any tire chains either? I now have an ice scraper and a snow brush though.


(1.) It's how you drive. Driver ability.

(2.) Where you drive. Towing or not.

(3.) And what you want and how much you want to spend.

Famous last words:

My Nephew bought a used Jeep CJ-5 and I bought a brand new Jeep CJ-5.

When asked, My nephew said that he could go anywhere with his four wheel drive Jeep. [young Nephew rolled his jeep]

When asked, I said that I could go a bit further with my four wheel drive Jeep.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:12 AM   #45
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The most sensible way to drive a vehicle with selectable 4WD is to use 2WD until you start to feel you need 4WD. Then think seriously about where you are going and what you are doing before proceeding. If you go somewhere in 2WD it is very likely you can get back out even if you have to use 4WD. However if you go in using 4WD, you may find yourself staying there for a while.

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:24 AM   #46
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We own a 2x2. At the time we bought it we were looking at another brand trailer and I would have needed the extra weight capacity the two has over the four. Now with our AS, we do not need it. I'm with other posters here that when you need 4x4 you need it. We've been stuck at least twice. There is nothing so humbling as asking folks to help push your Suburban out of a mud hole. Good luck!
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:15 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag&Au View Post
I think you said this about 4WD once before in another thread.

I think I replied, "Do you suppose that has anything to do with you living in one of the warmest and flattest parts of the country?"

However my memory is not that good, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be that much of a smart ass.

What do you think?


Ken
Sure, I've said it before. Still stands. Have at it, friend. There ought to be another side to the story. And most of that is lower initial price, distinctly lower operational costs and better on-road performance where independent front suspension + rack & pinion steering provide better driver feedback. The worst-handling, worst braking TV out there is a 4WD pickup with offroad tires. No pickup is great, but some are worse than others. It's a penalty every single mile on road.

There is no end of 4WD vehicles down here. The oilfield hands + peer pressure sees to that for many. Ranchers, farmers, etc. Guys who go out to the barrier islands for fishing in their old rustbuckets all have 4WD.

But who is going to tow a $60k A/S down a potholed lease road or across a wet pasture? Down Padre Island. These are low ground clearance somewhat delicate trailers . . so no one, I hope, is dragging them around (except those prepared for those damages). Same for towing one in ice & snow which even North Texas can see enough of.

The trailers built for the Aussie outback fit the 4WD profile. And they are tanks.

The guys who make their income using 1T trucks -- RV hauling, hotshot and the rest -- very often are bright enough to avoid 4WD. As a business decision it doesn't pay off there either.

If the TV is also the daily commuter for an area where it makes sense, okay. As above, those who don't care about depreciation also don't care about operational costs. Have at it. The best TV, IMO, is still the one which is best for solo purposes, one, and can also tow the trailer, two. Best not to reverse that order.

But for the times when towing a TT where a bit of discretion, the right tires and a limited slip rear axle make the difference between problems and none some experience on where not to drive -- or turn around -- just means a bit of patience.

How on earth my grandfathers, great uncles and father all got around Wyoming and Colorado from the early 1910's onward without 4WD must remain one of lifes mysteries. Or how I've driven all over the country in all weather and conditions, in personal vehicles and 18-wheelers and never owned nor extensively driven 4WD vehicles. I do see the appeal . . but never needed it (to buy a vehicle so equipped).

If the local police have 4WD, then it may be a good thing I've always thought. But will you (anyone) be towing that TT in those conditions where it is needed?

Getting stuck is hardly the end of things. There are ways to get unstuck, and it's like learning to change a tire: some skill development. 4WD is a permanent penalty for a temporary problem.

Assuming a pickup is the best TV is a bad assumption. And assuming it must also have 4WD is equally bad. Best to stand farther back to re-assess the problem. Might make sense for a fulltimer. Unlikely to do so for a vacationer in most instances.

These are trailers designed to be towed by automobiles. And with only a couple of possible exceptions that still stands.

I'd agree that with a fuller range of vehicles contemplated that AWD (which is different than 4WD) is likely the best all-around choice for a TV. But the $$$ problem is still there. But at least it won't have the other problems inherent in using a truck as tow vehicle.


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Old 12-04-2012, 05:47 PM   #48
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In Colorado and other wintry states, selling a 2WD may be a problem.

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Old 12-04-2012, 05:50 PM   #49
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At the risk of repeating what has been said many times. "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:09 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveswenson View Post
At the risk of repeating what has been said many times. "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."
Defining "need" is the problem with threads on this topic.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:19 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Defining "need" is the problem with threads on this topic.
Well I haven't needed 4wd yet while towing. But I have needed it here in the winter just to get out of my driveway. So I need it.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
4WD is a permanent penalty for a temporary problem.
Depends how you look at it. You WILL pay more for a 4wd truck, but resale is far superior. Down here in my neck of the woods, most people will agree that you cant GIVE them a 2wd truck. Ok... yes you can... to resell and buy a 4wd. Theres your "permanent penalty" for buying a 2wd

2 phases come to mind:
Whatever can go wrong, will.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it(said many times...)

Get stuck once on some loose gravel and call a tow truck, theres a couple hundred bucks shot in the arsenal and a whole lot of shame from everyone laughing at you
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
These are trailers designed to be towed by automobiles. And with only a couple of possible exceptions that still stands.
What cars does Airstream recommend for towing their trailers?
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:55 PM   #54
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I've had a 4X4 since about '78. Very handy to have when you need it or don't really have the time to get out with only one tire spinning. Also been embarressed with two tires spinning on a bit of an ice berm. Good to have two tires pulling when going up a steep gravel road, less shredding of your tires especially with the sharp gravel you might have more frequently in a steep country. Sometimes you have better control going down something really steeeep with two tires in engine braking, it's best to keep in control and not break traction or touch the brake pedal. Differential locks you cant unlock can make it difficult to steer on a crooked ice mountain road, you best find out that before. We about run a concrete truck off a mountain a few years ago when the front tires wouldn't steer going down a steep crooked iced mountain grade. Clean dry sand in the flat country can bury you real quick, so two tires turning won't help either but get you deeper faster. There wetter, dirtier sand can give more traction, with most of the air let out of your tires. Some areas the dry dusty dirt will turn into the worst sticky slippery mud with only a few rain drops, there's no sand or gravel in the dirt at all. but I geodigressenate.
If you don't have the opportunity or wish for the second drive axle, getting your front wheels off the ground by having the sig other sit on a long board on the tail gate; and get both rear wheels turning with a differential lock; or rig up left-right wheel brakes on the emerg brakes cable can help. Low range is very handy in parking.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:10 PM   #55
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I don't care what you 2wd proponents say. Ima get one of these.

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Old 12-04-2012, 10:54 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Sure, I've said it before. Still stands. Have at it, friend. There ought to be another side to the story. And most of that is lower initial price, distinctly lower operational costs and better on-road performance where independent front suspension + rack & pinion steering provide better driver feedback. The worst-handling, worst braking TV out there is a 4WD pickup with offroad tires. No pickup is great, but some are worse than others. It's a penalty every single mile on road.

There is no end of 4WD vehicles down here. The oilfield hands + peer pressure sees to that for many. Ranchers, farmers, etc. Guys who go out to the barrier islands for fishing in their old rustbuckets all have 4WD.

But who is going to tow a $60k A/S down a potholed lease road or across a wet pasture? Down Padre Island. These are low ground clearance somewhat delicate trailers . . so no one, I hope, is dragging them around (except those prepared for those damages). Same for towing one in ice & snow which even North Texas can see enough of.

The trailers built for the Aussie outback fit the 4WD profile. And they are tanks.

The guys who make their income using 1T trucks -- RV hauling, hotshot and the rest -- very often are bright enough to avoid 4WD. As a business decision it doesn't pay off there either.

If the TV is also the daily commuter for an area where it makes sense, okay. As above, those who don't care about depreciation also don't care about operational costs. Have at it. The best TV, IMO, is still the one which is best for solo purposes, one, and can also tow the trailer, two. Best not to reverse that order.

But for the times when towing a TT where a bit of discretion, the right tires and a limited slip rear axle make the difference between problems and none some experience on where not to drive -- or turn around -- just means a bit of patience.

How on earth my grandfathers, great uncles and father all got around Wyoming and Colorado from the early 1910's onward without 4WD must remain one of lifes mysteries. Or how I've driven all over the country in all weather and conditions, in personal vehicles and 18-wheelers and never owned nor extensively driven 4WD vehicles. I do see the appeal . . but never needed it (to buy a vehicle so equipped).

If the local police have 4WD, then it may be a good thing I've always thought. But will you (anyone) be towing that TT in those conditions where it is needed?

Getting stuck is hardly the end of things. There are ways to get unstuck, and it's like learning to change a tire: some skill development. 4WD is a permanent penalty for a temporary problem.

Assuming a pickup is the best TV is a bad assumption. And assuming it must also have 4WD is equally bad. Best to stand farther back to re-assess the problem. Might make sense for a fulltimer. Unlikely to do so for a vacationer in most instances.

These are trailers designed to be towed by automobiles. And with only a couple of possible exceptions that still stands.

I'd agree that with a fuller range of vehicles contemplated that AWD (which is different than 4WD) is likely the best all-around choice for a TV. But the $$$ problem is still there. But at least it won't have the other problems inherent in using a truck as tow vehicle.


.
And that's a fact...... Possibly,

.......but then again maybe not.


TEHO....

Bob
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