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Old 05-19-2014, 11:09 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
Brad, hope you get the drum fixed up quickly tomorrow. Hard to tell from the pictures, but looks like one or two bolt holes on the wheel may be damaged. As suggested by several others, probably a good idea to check the torque on the other wheels. Maybe your mechanic can tell from the remaining stud heads how they failed.

Sorry for the hijack, but this seems like a good time/place to ask.

So, since I'm heading out Thursday for Cedar Key for the first trip on my new Sendels and 16" Michelin LTs, what should I torque them to? Someone on here said JC's spec was 100 lb.ft. That's what they are at right now. I will stop about 50 miles down the road and check them.

Thanks,

Al
I don't expect you (or anyone else) will experience my issues, but if you are traveling on the keys Rubio's (786-412-3108) is probably a good name to have in your book. They provide mobile maintenance on the keys, and while my repair is still only halfway completed (waiting on parts - lugs) these guys seem to know their business.

I would never in a million years have thought carrying an extra set of lugs in my toolkit would be a good idea, but I may be re-thinking that in the near future.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:27 AM   #58
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There is a difference in torque spec between 3/4" and 13/16" hex, as well as stud diameter and wheel type. I have seen some 3/4" hex lugs for Airstream trailers at 90 pounds.
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Old 05-19-2014, 12:45 PM   #59
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Recently retired and now broke down in the Florida Keys and you want us to help and feel sorry for you.

Let me think about it. Nope, didn't change anything.

Gary
You're bad!

Glad no one was hurt. If this had happened as you were barreling down an interstate, could have been an unhappy ending rather than an inconvenience.

If you have to break down, the Florida Keys are not a bad place to spend some time.....ocean every direction you look, lots of sunshine.

Hope all is resolved soon.

Maggie
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Old 05-19-2014, 12:52 PM   #60
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I know this has been mentioned before but, be sure the torques are checked on all the nuts on all the wheels. You may have another one damaged already. Be careful and good luck. Jim
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Old 05-19-2014, 01:57 PM   #61
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I wonder of lubrication of threads might be a factor here?

For years, I used to think I was doing a good thing by putting "anti-seize compound" on wheel lugs to ensure that I could get them off ok when needed.

Anti-seize compounds are usually a compound of lead or copper powder with a lubricant as far as I know - pretty greasy stuff anyway!

Somewhere along the line I learned that - although they generally don't state it in their torque specs, - automotive torque figures are quoted based on "dry" threads not lubricated thread.

I have also read that torquing a lubricated thread will result in a clamping force about 25% higher than with a dry thread.

I don't put anti-seize on anymore! Although I suppose I could still use it and torque to a lower value than specified.

Brian.
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Old 05-19-2014, 02:12 PM   #62
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Further to my last post, here is an interesting article on torquing lug nuts that I just came across ........

http://t3technique.com/media/pdf/Lug_torque.pdf


Seems a good write up and easy reading.
One thing he does not talk about unfortunately is what they call "Torque sticks." I have one, but don't know a whole lot about them or how accurate they are.

For anyone not familiar, a torque stick is a special socket extension that allows you to torque
lugnuts to a specific torque value using an impact wrench.

Of course without such a device, you are not supposed to use an impact wrench when installing lug nuts - other than to quickly run the nut up to a tightness known to be all below the desired torque level, then finish the job with a manual torque wrench.

Torque sticks come in different torque values and are stamped and perhaps also colour coded as to their torque rating.

They work I believe by absorbing torque from the wrench over and above the specified value rather than letting it be transmitted to the lug nut.

I have a 100 ft lb torque stick that I carry with me along with a 110v electric impact wrench (We always take a 110v gennie on our camping trips).

I am still a bit leary about the torque stick, so I just use it to run the nuts up to some lower level of tightness then finish the job with a digital manual torque wrench!

Brian.
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:04 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
Recently retired and now broke down in the Florida Keys and you want us to help and feel sorry for you.

Let me think about it. Nope, didn't change anything.

Gary

Gary, I don't know how I missed this post. You crack me up, pal!

This whole event has been quite an education (I could have done without), but really good information provided here by everyone - thank you all. I have torqued my wheels to 100 pounds.

I just spoke with another camper, and apparently on the keys Good Sam uses Rubio's to provide services on the keys, FYI.
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:13 PM   #64
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You are never supposed to lubricate the studs with anything, not anti sieze, grease, oil, ptfe, not anything! Torque specs are for dry threads only.
It is OK to add a shmear between disc/drum and the wheel to prevent seizing there! A little goes a long way!
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:18 PM   #65
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Brian, thanks for the link to the article on lug torque. I now know more than I ever thought I would about the engineering of lugs.

Random thought...anyone know how a Nascar tire change is done? That process doesn't look very precise...does the wrench they use always tighten to the correct value?
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:40 PM   #66
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e-mail exchange with Airstream

Here is what I asked:
I have replaced the original wheels with 16" wheels (Sendel T03-66655T) and Michelin LT 235/75-16 tires. My manual says to torque Aluminum wheels to 85 lb. ft. The 2012 manual for the Eddie Bauer, which uses the same wheels and tires, calls for 110 lb. ft. Wondering which value to use.

Here is what they responded:

Hello you will want to torque to the wheel specifications. I show the torque for the Eddie Bauer rim is 125-130 lbs.

So I have the following data:
My 2001 manual for aluminum wheels - 85 lb. ft.
Most new manuals, including 2012 Eddie Bauer - 110 lb. ft.
Customer service response - 125-130 lb. ft.

So I guess I'll go with 125.

Al

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Old 05-19-2014, 03:43 PM   #67
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On second thought.....

After reading the article posted by Wingeezer, I wonder about the wisdom of torquing lugs that were originally specified to be torqued to 85 lb. ft. to 125. Do I need to replace the studs?

Al
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:49 PM   #68
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Al,
Another source of info that may shed some light on the torque value subject, is to check the manual from the axle manufacturer. I have various trailers, most with Dexter axles, one ( my camper ) with Lippert, and both companies have the manuals online, with specific instructions, and numbers.
For what it's worth, my camper has Sendel aluminum wheels, on Lippert axles, that have the typical 1/2" grade eight studs, and they call for 90-120 ft-lbs final torque. I use 110. They stay tight.
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:56 PM   #69
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Thanks, should have thought about that. I did find a table of bolt torque specs that says for grade 5/7/8 the torque specs are 90/100/120 lb. ft. dry, but recommends reducing the torque by 25% for cad plate. Isn't that what the gold coating on the lug bolts is? I wish I had paid more attention to the marking on the back of the stud when I pulled the drum, but I don't think it was marked as a grade 8, at least not with the common marking. I'm gonna check my axles to see who made them and go look online.

Al
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:24 PM   #70
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Hmmmm, if I am not mistaken, all wheel studs are grade eight to meet DOT standards ? Someone else jump in here and correct me on that if I am incorrect.

I think you are likely to find that 90-120 is right. And that taking them up in stages (20-30, then 50-60, then final value ) is recommended. And then check them again at 10, 50, and 100 miles. That's what I do, and then check them periodically too. But then I have been accused of being overly pedantic.
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