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Old 05-22-2008, 03:44 PM   #1093
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
The consumption thing only goes so far with me. I know several things are making the prices high, but I do not accept that overnight, this just happened.

If you recall, when this first started around the Katrina time frame or just before, there was plenty of oil and not enough refining capacity. Then, after the refining capacity thing didn't stick, then came the magic that overnight China and India are to blame mostly for this mess.

If, what the oil companies said was in fact true, and they were re-investing their profits, you would have seen refining capacity increase. The fact is that there has not been one new refining place built. They have added on some to existing plants, but that is about it. Nowhere close to keeping up with the demand.

Last, the oil companies said, well if you would only let us drill in the wildlife refuge we could meet demand, but guess what, where are they going to refine it?!

The bottom line is that big oil DOES have a hand in this. You are right, we live in a capitalistic world (for the most part) and the greed of the few and the powerful has always been a driving force in our government. Big oil is just taking care of it's own.

Is taxing them gonna change it? Doubtful, but I will tell you what, yank those gov subsidies and put them to things like solar, wind and foster the growth of other technologies, I would bet that shortly after it started to become commonplace, you'd see a whole different big oil.....and not because of supply and demand.....
Eric, you forgot the precursor to Katrina excuse, which was the Mideast unrest.

In what little fairness I can give to the oil companies, there obviously is a NIMBY issue to raise when expansion or a new refinery is considered....not that big oil can blame the neighbors. Consider Wood River Illinois nearby to St. Louis. Many thousands of gallons of gasoline have leaked out the refinery tanks over the years. Folks have basements in this community that are health and safety hazards. We've all known about this for years, but until recently no one has taken the responsibility to make this mess go away. With lack of or slow company, governmental or judicial intervention to these issues, can you blame someone for not being receptive to expansion or new construction?

The other thing is when you can control supply, what's your incentive to build additional refining capacity whose potential offset is lowering prices? If the law of supply and demand worked, everyone would be developing these resources thusly grabbing a bigger share of the pie and supposedly more income....Today they offset this rational by calculating the risk of demand being lower versus the ability to make more money by restricting supply. The free market and the law of supply and demand that we learned in econ class back in the 60's goes right into the dumpster.

Add to that the Fed's meddling with emissions standards on a many city basis, removes the ability of fuel shipped from anywhere in the country since each regional area has specific blends necessary to meet that locale's standards.
Too much fuel in one region can't be shipped somewhere else where supplies are lower. Again the laws of supply and demand are artificially skewed.

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Old 05-22-2008, 04:17 PM   #1094
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In Northeastern NY the sickening facts are:

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Old 05-22-2008, 04:27 PM   #1095
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OK folks, I received a lengthy reply back from one of my US Senators. I'm willing to reprint here as it appears to be a "canned" letter that he sends to all of his constituents inquiring on energy issues. Does anybody want to see it?

The one proviso is that it must pass muster with the Moderator Team first as it definitely provides a "politicians" answer. We are already tap dancing around the "no politics" rule here, so I just want to get prior approval.

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Old 05-22-2008, 05:24 PM   #1096
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I'd like to read the senator's canned response. We have already read so much of differing views of members here, another source would also be interesting. It might even be helpful in our piecing together more personal theories. Or is that the problem?
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:41 PM   #1097
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I'm not one to blame the oil companies at all, it's their job to make money for their company and stockholders. I blame out idiotic gov for everything! We have had knowledge since the 70's that something needed to be done about our gas/diesel problem. What have those educated idiots done? Nothing! But they still give oil companies tax breaks, take all that money and give it to companies that produce alternate fuels. Windmills and solar should be all over this country by now too. Stop giving farmers tax breaks for using corn for fuel, we could go on and on, there are total morons running our country that is why it's in such a mess. It's going to get much worse before it gets better.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:25 PM   #1098
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We're the oil tribe

[QUOTE=mrchinup1I blame out idiotic gov for everything! [/QUOTE]

I agree the gov't has screwed up, but what industry has enormous influence over Congress and has two oilmen in the administration?

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Old 05-22-2008, 06:34 PM   #1099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I agree the gov't has screwed up, but what industry has enormous influence over Congress and has two oilmen in the administration? Gene
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:36 PM   #1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
I'd like to read the senator's canned response.....
OK, so will one of the Mods weigh in here? I'll be happy to send it via a PM for review before it's printed.

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Old 05-22-2008, 07:28 PM   #1101
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Sheesh, the silence is deafening.
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:36 PM   #1102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I agree the gov't has screwed up, but what industry has enormous influence over Congress and has two oilmen in the administration?

Gene
So what i think you are saying is, they not only are idiots they are corrupt too. Well i have to agree with you on this one. Until the people rise up and start fighting and demonstrating nothing will change. I'm going to Washington next year to see the solar house display. I told my wife we need to bring lots of cash because i'm going to be giving any politician passing me going to work an earfull.

I'm really sick and tired of this corrupted government. I mean both parties! Government also needs to be cut in half, i'm sick and tire of seeing poor people paying for someone else to retire at close to 80% pay, it's a joke.

As i go cross country there is no doubt this is the greatest country on earth, but our government is dragging us down quick. 10 trillion in debt we are leaving our kids to deal with, they should all be fired and then shot. I guess you can see i'm pretty angry about this mess.
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:31 AM   #1103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim & Susan
OK, so will one of the Mods weigh in here? I'll be happy to send it via a PM for review before it's printed.

Jim
just post it.
asking forgiveness is easier than permission, no objection has been voiced, and we would all like to see it.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:37 AM   #1104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dscluchfc
just post it.
asking forgiveness is easier than permission, no objection has been voiced, and we would all like to see it.

I'm with Dave... besides, it's a response from one of our 'esteemed' legislators to the very topic of this thread and our... ahh..growing, concern over fuel prices.
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:08 AM   #1105
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I'm not saying don't post it, but to be honest, those canned letters and just a brush off. What is within the content is about as valuable as a sack of wet mice.
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:22 AM   #1106
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What I would do - if I were certain the representative in question didn't mind - is to paste it into a webpage from geocities or some other sorta-free webhosting site, then post a link to it here. If the mods object, the url for the document could be made available by request through PM.

I'd think that might cover the bases.
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