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Old 12-27-2008, 06:18 PM   #1835
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I will be the first to admit that I am not an so called expert on all the factors of the Petroleum Industries shell game. I know what I pay at the pump, like anyone else, went up faster than it had declined for a cost ratio, despite the explanation of "conversely concepts" of world supply and demand.
This article points to an unfortunate take on the higher cost associated with energy.
Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate | WINK News - Southwest Florida | Top Stories
Quote:
Oil prices hit four-year lows Friday as employers cut the highest number of jobs in 34 years. The continuing decline in prices is so dramatic and so sudden that it is raising the prospect that gas prices could soon fall below $1 a gallon.
The worst jobs data in 34 years on Friday just added more fuel to the deepening global recession as U.S. employers slashed a far worse-than-expected 533,000 jobs in November and the unemployment rate rose to a 15-year high of 6.7 percent.
I once drove from NH to El Paso Tx. in 1999, for 147$ one way. Crude oil price then was slightly less than 20 dollars a barrel.
When you consider that for well over a 100 years, from the early 1860's to the early 1970's the price of crude oil was nearly flat~
Really opens your eyes.
Diesel price is still 2.49$ locally.
The NE always pays a higher price..

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Old 12-27-2008, 06:36 PM   #1836
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Originally Posted by Larry in MO View Post

The feds get .17 for doing nothing. The states get more and claim to use it for roads. Who knows what the municipalities get their 7-10% for?
Larry, the feds build roads with the gas tax (Highway Trust Fund). So do the states. Most places do not charge sales tax on gas, so municipalities get nothing that way. Many states return part of the state tax to municipalities to build local roads. Motor vehicle taxes also go to roads. No taxes, no roads.

We can argue about whether the govt uses the taxes efficiently to build and maintain roads, but that's where the money goes. Some federal money is earmarked for stupid projects like bridges to nowhere, and that is wrong.

Before motor vehicle license taxes and fuel taxes, roads in this country were pathetic. Outside of cities and towns, they were poorly maintained wagon tracks and during mud season no one went anywhere or they took the train or the horse. Have you seen programs on the History Channel about the first autos to do cross country trips and what it was like at the beginning of the 20th century? In places they just drove across the prairie.

Roads and bridges are deteriorating because of deferred maintenance. Taxes have hardly increased while costs have skyrocketed and inflation has made fuel taxes less and less. Among other things, poorly maintained roads mean our Airstreams get beat up. Take your trailer over Donner Summit on I-80 in California if you want to drive on a highway defined by deferred maintenance and low taxes. They were fixing it earlier this year, so you'd better hurry. The concrete pavement was so old the surface had been worn off and the "road" was more like gravel imbedded in cement. It hasn't helped that the feds allowed heavier trucks to use the interstates years ago which is why so many roads have tire grooves in them. They weren't designed for 40 ton trucks.

Rant complete.

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Old 12-27-2008, 07:32 PM   #1837
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Down to $1.36 per gallon for regular gas here in El Paso. Lowest in a looooong time!

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Old 12-27-2008, 08:10 PM   #1838
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Originally Posted by Larry in MO View Post
Actually, the gov't makes more than the oil companies--the nationwide average tax on gasoline is about .48 per gallon. The feds get .17 for doing nothing. The states get more and claim to use it for roads.
Well, Gene, you're right. Being a little more than sarcastic, my point was that for the money they get they do seeming little w/ it. Missouri is a good example. We have one of the lowest state gas taxes in the US, about .18, and the highways display that very fact. And, more accurately, the feds get about .17 to work on the highways and little gets done other than repairs. The states portion doesn't get them far enough either. Sorry, that was on me. I owe you one!

Now this is going to sound kinda odd but I believe that if the "user" fee of gasoline tax were increased, and the funds were not siphoned off for other pet projects, the roads surely could be made better and safer. You never saw that one coming, did you?
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:43 PM   #1839
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We saw diesel below $2.00 today for the first time. It was 1.97 on the Sandia Pueblo. That makes me feel good since we just bought a new F-250 Power Stroke last week.

OOOOOHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooo, NEW F-250 and less than $2 gas - This is a great country.

Congrats on both counts - and an Airstream owner, go buy a lottery ticket and live life in the fast lane.
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:50 PM   #1840
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Hold on there..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry in MO View Post
That price you're talking about is for a February delivery in a futures market. If the price continues at this level or lower, you will see it fairly soon but it is not an overnight deal.
Further, we're talking about a 42 gallon "barrel". With my public school education, a $35 dollar barrel computes to about $.84 a gallon in the ground.
Larry in MO,
You might want to go back to your "public school" and, demand a refund~
With oil prices in retreat, OPEC struggles to maintain unity - International Herald Tribune
As an example:
1.On Monday, crude oil for January delivery fell as much as $3.31, or 6.1 percent, to $51.12 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. It was at $51.66 a barrel in London.
2. The word Delivery used here by definition means: To accept physical possession of same and/or settled for cash. (per 1000 barrel)
If you are an oil future trader, I doubt very seriously you want to take "delivery" of your multiples of 1000 barrels of future oil unless you have a buyer and, can sell it for more than you contracted to buy the oil for. None of which is happening now as the market is sliding and, the reasons why so many traders are fleeing from that market.
Quote:
In the United States alone, oil demand plunged by 2.6 million barrels a day in September, or nearly 13 percent, according to monthly data released in November by the U.S. Energy Department. Demand fell to 17.7 million barrels a day, the lowest monthly level since October 1995.

I still say. I am no expert on this oil market but..I do know what the word "delivery" means. implied or otherwise~
So, once again, just so we are clear on this..
The prices quoted are the closing price at the end of the day's trading and reflect delivery price at some point in the future~In this case, Jan, 2K9
Not some quoted price for oil in the ground..~
Still..Diesel price is 2.49$
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:59 PM   #1841
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Originally Posted by clancy_boy View Post
OOOOOHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooo, NEW F-250 and less than $2 gas - This is a great country.

Congrats on both counts - and an Airstream owner, go buy a lottery ticket and live life in the fast lane.
Yup - cheap diesel and a new F-250. Life is good!
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:24 PM   #1842
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Some how Tennessee gets it when it comes to maintaining good quality roads. We have some of the best roads in the country and we don't have a state income tax. Of course sales tax is over 9% and that is supposed to make up for it. Don't most counties/cities/towns where y'all live also charge a wheel tax for road maintenance. I also know some property tax is used to maintain roads in many places.

In any event it's a buck29 for reglur today in Cooterville, TN., USA. Gallon of 2% milk was 3.19.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:21 AM   #1843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry in MO View Post
Now this is going to sound kinda odd but I believe that if the "user" fee of gasoline tax were increased, and the funds were not siphoned off for other pet projects, the roads surely could be made better and safer. You never saw that one coming, did you?
Larry, I agree with you and I know you're not irrational. Dumb projects are everywhere. Politicians often give voters what they think they want even if the project isn't sensible. Contractors often control the situation and influence state and local highway depts. Roads here in Colorado seem to get built badly and some start deteriorating in a few years. In the ultra conservative county where I live they had to rebuilt part of road 2 years after it was completely rebuilt. Other parts are sinking over the culverts because the soil wasn't compacted properly and they couldn't even build it straight. I think some local highway funds come out of general revenues, but our taxes are so low, maintenance is deferred and deferred and deferred. Parts of US 50 were 4 laned a couple of years ago and are already lumpy, probably from expansive soils that weren't accounted for, and some has already had to be repaved. In my county the commissioners are in charge of the roads in their district even if they know nothing about roads, and it shows. If there's a proposal to increase taxes for roads here it has to be approved by voters and rarely is.

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Old 12-28-2008, 11:11 AM   #1844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53flyingcloud View Post
Larry in MO,
You might want to go back to your "public school" and, demand a refund~
Insults don't usually help unless, of course, you were kidding me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 53flyingcloud View Post
The word Delivery used here by definition means: To accept physical possession of same and/or settled for cash.

I still say. I am no expert on this oil market but..I do know what the word "delivery" means. implied or otherwise~
Actually, delivery is a little different from everyday use. For reference, see this paragraph from the NY Mercantile Exchange:

200.14 Delivery (A) Delivery shall be made F.O.B. at any pipeline or storage facility in Cushing, Oklahoma with pipeline access to TEPPCO, Cushing storage or Equilon Pipeline Company LLC Cushing storage. Delivery shall be made in accordance with all applicable Federal executive orders and all applicable Federal, State and local laws and regulations.

F.O.B. (Free on Board): means that the seller pays for transportation of the goods to the port or pipeline terminus, plus loading costs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 53flyingcloud View Post
So, once again, just so we are clear on this..
The prices quoted are the closing price at the end of the day's trading and reflect delivery price at some point in the future~In this case, Jan, 2K9 Not some quoted price for oil in the ground..~
Just so we are clear on this the price goes up and down all day but the quoted prices are generally the closing prices. This does not get the product to the buyer's facility-- it only gets it to Cushing, Oklahoma, and the seller is the one that pays for that transit and loading. The buyer is the one that pays for the transportation costs, refinement, etc. I think that some storage tanks are above ground!

As an aside, the prices fell mostly because of a lack of storage space as "delivery" was imminent--no place to put it. Bargain basement prices for anyone who would take it.

Another aside- very neat avitar. Are those available in a larger size? That would make a great poster?
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Old 12-28-2008, 11:32 AM   #1845
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Another aside- very neat avitar. Are those available in a larger size? That would make a great poster?
Thanks..NO.
I had to sell the skin to buy the fuel and, to keep the frame..
I can still be a member of WBBCI?? LEGALLY
diesel still 2.49$
Larry,
When I come to MO., to visit family, let's get together for a BBQ.
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Old 12-28-2008, 11:39 AM   #1846
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When I come to MO., to visit family, let's get together for a BBQ.
Absolutely! Where in MO are they located?

Unleaded $1.35 this a.m.
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:38 PM   #1847
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Deal...
Just outside of ST JOE
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:47 PM   #1848
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Deal...
Just outside of ST JOE
I don't know of any good BBQ in St. Joe (don't harpoon me--I simply am not aware of any places there)

On the other hand, I know of 4 or 5 in the Kansas City area. I don't know how they compare with New Hampshire BBQ, however. Do you have BBQ in New Hampshire?

At any rate, give a little notice and we'll pig out!

Obligatory list content: $1.33 in Blue Springs, MO this evening.
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