What do others do to be Bear Aware in Grand Tetons

[uncle_bob]

Hi

One concern I have in all this is the tight focus on bears. They aren't the only thing out there that can do you some significant damage ..... petting anything that weighs 2X what you do is a *really* bad idea .... Even that cute little raccoon isn't anybody you want to get cornered unless you like bleeding ....

Bob

[Len n Jeanne]

Is bear spray legal in the US? It is in British Columbia. We live in a rural area backed by mountains. Bears are common, as they will come out to eat fruit on backyard trees this time of year.

If you're hiking, wear the bear spray canister on your hip, not tucked away in a pack. It is only for emergencies-- namely a bear at close range. Also, forget the quiet and solitude of the wilds. Make noise on the trail by talking, singing, or clapping, notably in brushy areas with limited visibility. You don't want to surprise one at close range.

And yes,what everyone else said.

Oh, and no selfies.

[JonDNC]

Yes it’s legal, and yes in bear country wear on your hip. Along with....

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by JonDNC

Yes it’s legal, and yes in bear country wear on your hip. Along with....

Hi

..... with an air horn

Other loud noise making supplements may not be legal in National Parks .....

Bob

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by VT Wanderer

carry bear spray in a easy to reach place on your pack while hiking (one per person).

The only easy to reach place on your pack is on the strap as it goes over your chest. But then you don't have it if you put down the pack.

Bear spray is very effective, but if you need it you could need it quickly. That's why you should carry bear spray on your person. It will have a belt loop. Put it on your belt at your side, right by your hand so it's ready to use if needed. But you probably won't need to if you follow appropriate protocol: Travel in a group, stay close together and make noise so bears an avoid you.

[Daquenzer]

Lived in NW Wisconsin for over 20 years. One night heard all kinds of noise. Got up to find a cow and her cubs outside our house. We regularly saw bears around our house. Actually had a den not far from our house. Kids found the bear sleeping and took a picture of it. Black bears generally stay clear when humans show up, and are generally pretty passive unless you get in the path of their cubs. But some bears get a little courageous and there have been a few instances of bears running after humans. Happened to a friend of mine. Rare. But after a few times of this happening in NW Wisconsin I decided that if I was bow hunting any longer or hiking in the woods I would carry a 45 magnum. A friend of mine was bow hunting and had a black bear climb up a tree after him when Mama saw her cubs up the tree. Thankfully she lost interest. I know in WI bow hunters are carrying sidearms in some places. Not sure of the regulations on carrying a sidearm in parks, but if I was going to an area with lots of bears I’d be armed and ready. Would first try to scare them off with other means however.

[Climber]

Sing loudly and off-key. My backcountry Yellowstone noise-making favorites are “Roxanne,” “Truckin,” and “Badlands.” Drives my wife crazy, but we haven’t been attacked yet. (She however has threatened the bear spray on me...)

[Rocinante]

We were volunteer camp hosts in Glacier last summer. Learned a few things about bear-safe camping. Here's one:

Empty coolers (a) still have a smell and (b) bears know what comes in coolers and will take a look anyhow. So if you leave an empty cooler where a bear can get to it, you'll have (1) a mauled empty cooler and (2) a still-hungry irritated bear in your campsite, looking for something else to eat. Do you want to be next on the menu? So do yourself a favor, and don't leave any coolers, even empty ones, where a bear can get to them.
Your cooler is "bear-proof," you say? Well I have a couple of questions for you: (1) did you apply the "bear-proof" lock to your cooler so they can't pry it open? (2) How much did you pay for that fancy cooler, and do you really want a hungry, soon to be angry, grizzly doing his or her best, right in your campsite, to maul that fancy expensive cooler into oblivion?

Here's a couple more: No, bears will not generally try to break into hard-sided campers such as Airstreams. You and your food are safe in there. In Montana, bears will not generally try to break into a car when they see a cooler in the back seat. Not so much in California (e.g. Yosemite) where those bears are known to break into cars. This is simply because bears in Montana don't generally survive more than one car break-in (e.g. they are usually hunted down and killed vs. being relocated). This is not a happy fact - it's simply a sad observation that, particularly in Montana, a fed bear is a dead bear. Please, don't be that person who feeds a bear.

[Silvr_Bullet]

In a state park in NE New York and Massachusetts Berkshires we had an experience with a hungry Black Bear that decided during the night when In an absent minded moment I left our plastic cooler outside our then Starcraft pop up. We awoke to the sound of rustling sounds and then growling as the bear grabbed our cooler apparently his claws penetrated the cooler skin and was unable to extricate his claws that was evident by the sound of the cooler banging in to the nearby woods. We kept the damaged cooler for a number of years as a conversation piece, BTW the cooler was found with all contents intact and cooler unopened, maybe it was a Cub.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

..... with an air horn

Other loud noise making supplements may not be legal in National Parks .....

Bob

*****
Bob... you are a 'Man of the Frontier'. An Air Horn trumps Bear Spray. If a bear is close enough for the 'spray' it is already too late. You are more likely to get more spray in your own eyes.

If you are being mauled by a Bear... Bear Spray ONLY the FACE. Not the other end.

I carry something that works much better. Once Off the Grid campers understand that Bear, of any species, are not bound by State or Federal Laws against attacking humans.

If you have a choice in a National Park from being attacked by a Bear... pull out the loudest Noise Blaster in a can you have with you. Laying down and playing dead is like serving Breakfast and you are... IT.

Common Sense.

We operate an 'armed camp'. I carry a 45 and Nancy a 22 long rifle pistol. If you lose an arm and part of your face to a Bear Attack... and you are worried if NOISE is not allowed at a National Park... Come On.

Protecting Wild Life is one thing. Protecting yourself is another. Maybe one of your kids is expendable. Think some of the posts on this Thread over.

Most consider Running AWAY when a bear is in sight. Stand still make yourself appear larger, not that some of you are not already large enough... but hold out your jacket and start hollering. At the worst... ATTACK the Bear as last resort. Bear like the chase... not being chased. See the difference?

Wait until someone brings up Rattlesnakes, Copperheads and Pythons... This will be fun.

- 'Bear Bill' armed and safe in the Forests.
- Sow Brown Bear, Gila National Forest, New Mexico, not liking our smell or Blue Heelers ready to... Heel.
- Ramp is for our two Blue Heelers to easily enter the trailer. NOT the welcome mat for Grizz... if you thought otherwise.

Does this make me popular among 'animal lovers'? Probably not. Only you can save yourself... do not expect me to be standing there when you are in trouble.

[Len n Jeanne]

We found that the "Day-oh" part of the Banana Boat Song carried well and didn't require much breath on an uphill hike. She was into singing "Teddy Bear's Picnic," and "The Bear Went Over the Mountain," &c which He asked her to stop.

As a kid I went to summer camp in northern Wisconsin, and one night the staff piled the campers into the back of a truck and drove us to the nearby dump so that we could watch the bears. Hopefully that's over.

We have seen bears at close-enough range in Glacier NP at Kintla Lake. The park's backcountry regs for minimizing any left-behind food particles are amazingly strict. Like putting tiny left-over food particles from a meal through a strainer and packing them out. No bear-proof metal boxes, but they did supply a pole apparatus for hanging a food bag really high off the ground. Banging metal pots with spoons and yelling scared off the one bear in theCG. We just let the other one be-- as it was busy feeding in the bushes.

Firearms are strictly controlled in national parks, and for any Americans heading to Canada. Dogs are allowed in Canadian NPs, but not in most of the US national parks. Plus, it's hard to know how an individual dog will respond to a bear. It's not like they get much experience. Grizzlies in particular are protected.

Because bears are so common in our area (central Kootenays) we took a workshop on using bear spray. Then make sure it is not past its expiration date.

Famous last words: "I wonder where the mother bear is."

[Rocinante]

Suggesting other folks use a gun, especially a .22 or even a .45 (Oh, come on, Ray, seriously?) to try and discourage or stop a bear is far worse than someone like me suggesting bear spray.The shooter would have to be an incredibly accurate dead shot while a huge nasty bear is headed right at them at top speed. For most folks, chances of that happening are between slim and none. Perhaps your Nancy can hit 'em in the eye at 100 yards while said bear is running straight at her 40mph, but most folks can't. So, the whole idea of the average camper using the average gun to stop a bear is completely silly and downright unhelpful. It also leads the thread down a guaranteed-to-close-this-thread discussion of guns while camping. Seriously, can we keep this thread alive with useful advice about safely camping with bears instead of descending into pointless boastful gun talk?

Best move is to be bear aware and never draw a bear into an attack. Second best move is to pull that can of bear spray off your belt and let them have it at the proper distance (e.g. as far away as the spray can reach...read the can, please). If you're going to spend significant time in bear country, get an extra can and practice with it so you have an idea how it works and how to avoid spraying it on yourself. (Folks, it also has to be said because I've heard from Rangers who've seen this happen: bear spray is not a bear repellent, so don't rub it on your skin.) Yes, an air horn is also a helpful item, though it's not as good as avoiding an encounter altogether or successfully backing out of a near miss. In general, make lots of noise while hiking, especially in any brush, keep a neat clean camp and don't do anything guaranteed to draw bears, such as leaving coolers, dirty dishes, smelly candles, or other nonsense about your campsite. Oh, and don't ride your mountain bike full speed down narrow trails in grizzly country, as that could easily get you killed by a surprised and suddenly irritated bear. That last thing actually happened, I believe it was last year outside West Glacier. Very sad.

Anyway, we spent an entire summer in Glacier National Park last year and never had a single problem. You can probably do the same.

[Silvr_Bullet]

Wild West! I guess!

[Rocinante]

Regarding dogs and bears: If your dog is running along the trail ahead of you and comes upon a bear, they will irritate the bear enough to chase them and then run straight back to you with the bear close behind. Not a happy result for you, the dog, or the bear. This is what the Rangers told us in bear safety classes at GNP. So, don't do that.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Suggesting other folks use a gun, especially a .22 or even a .45 (Oh, come on, Ray, seriously?) to try and discourage or stop a bear is far worse than someone like me suggesting bear spray.The shooter would have to be an incredibly accurate dead shot while a huge nasty bear is headed right at them at top speed. For most folks, chances of that happening are between slim and none. Perhaps your Nancy can hit 'em in the eye at 100 yards while said bear is running straight at her 40mph, but most folks can't. So, the whole idea of the average camper using the average gun to stop a bear is completely silly and downright unhelpful. It also leads the thread down a guaranteed-to-close-this-thread discussion of guns while camping. Seriously, can we keep this thread alive with useful advice about safely camping with bears instead of descending into pointless boastful gun talk?

Best move is to be bear aware and never draw a bear into an attack. Second best move is to pull that can of bear spray off your belt and let them have it at the proper distance (e.g. as far away as the spray can reach...read the can, please). If you're going to spend significant time in bear country, get an extra can and practice with it so you have an idea how it works and how to avoid spraying it on yourself. (Folks, it also has to be said because I've heard from Rangers who've seen this happen: bear spray is not a bear repellent, so don't rub it on your skin.) Yes, an air horn is also a helpful item, though it's not as good as avoiding an encounter altogether or successfully backing out of a near miss. In general, make lots of noise while hiking, especially in any brush, keep a neat clean camp and don't do anything guaranteed to draw bears, such as leaving coolers, dirty dishes, smelly candles, or other nonsense about your campsite. Oh, and don't ride your mountain bike full speed down narrow trails in grizzly country, as that could easily get you killed by a surprised and suddenly irritated bear. That last thing actually happened, I believe it was last year outside West Glacier. Very sad.

Anyway, we spent an entire summer in Glacier National Park last year and never had a single problem. You can probably do the same.

Range of bear spray 25 to 30 feet. Range of a 45 magnum is 100 meter. I like Ray's solution. Read below. Bear spray is not very effective; especially if it is windy.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...#axzz5zjDSlugI

Obviously avoid even getting into a situation where it is necessary. But sometimes it happens. The above link are a few stories.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Anyway, we spent an entire summer in Glacier National Park last year and never had a single problem. You can probably do the same.

******

We lived in that country. Family since the 1890's. We all are well armed. We pick huckleberry and other berries in Bear Country. Handling Bear is second nature to someone who actually lived there in the thick brush of west and north west Montana. Not a vacationer living at an RV Park.

Who said I had the... problem? I do not suggest any Greenhorns to carry any firearms. They are more likely to hurt one another. When you see a Bear and you stand there and shake... you are a hazard to yourself.

I never take advice from tourists. They are the problem. We had no problem.

We had Bear trying to get into our Root Cellar when I was a ripe 5 / 6 years old outside of Olney, Montana. About 44 miles in a cabin without power, running water, privy from Glacier Park. Which may have several HUNDRED Park Rangers... carrying 38's and... shotguns with slugs.

Distance is 44 miles if a Bear could drive our F350. Maybe 30 miles if you are a Bear and the Park Service is dropping them off AWAY from the Park... either in Canada, doubtful... but most likely in Boondocking OTG country. Not a Zoo with fences.

Trust me. If you camp, actually camp Off the Grid in Bear Country... listen to some who just might know what they are talking about.

Established Camp Grounds with a thousand people, lots of Park Rangers... this is living in Disneyland. Not Bear Country.

[Len n Jeanne]

There is another argument here. Black bears are fairly common in the mountains, but grizzlies are protected in the US under the Endangered Species Act. In some areas their numbers have recovered sufficiently to be de-listed as "threatened." People have the right to kill a grizzly in a serious case of self defense but they may need a pretty good legal defense to prove that their lives were in danger. Expect to go to court, even if you win.

Where we live in British Columbia grizzlies are protected. In some years there is a hunting season, but the hunt has recently been called off.

Believe it or not, in some places bears are actually attracted to gunshots if they are acculturated to elk and deer hunters. They seem to know they're protected and that a downed elk carcass is easy pickings. [Or maybe this was a tall tale from a wrangler who guided horseback hunting trips in the Rockies.)

t's a lot cheaper and eco-friendlier to be as bear-aware as possible. Killing Mama Bear may leave young cubs vulnerable and ultimately dead if they don't know how to fend for themselves. Grizzlies have a very low reproductive rate, so killing a female can have a big impact on a small population.

Out here, there is a brown variant of the black bear called a cinnamon bear. They are easy to confuse with grizzlies on account of their color but they lack the shoulder hump at the withers and their coats are much smoother.

People here also favor "bear bangers" which are a kind of small flare. You twist the top, pull the cord and it gives off a sound like a loud shot. Ideally it scares the bear away without having to spray it, let alone shoot it. Canadian Tire sells bear bangers, and probably most stores catering to outdoors people.

Rocinante, ditto on mountain biking. A couple of years ago a man was mauled by a grizzly not far from us while riding on a little-used road. He didn't see it until it was on top of him.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne

There is another argument here. Black bears are fairly common in the mountains, but grizzlies are protected in the US under the Endangered Species Act. In some areas their numbers have recovered sufficiently to be de-listed as "threatened." People have the right to kill a grizzly in a serious case of self defense but they may need a pretty good legal defense to prove that their lives were in danger. Expect to go to court, even if you win.

Where we live in British Columbia grizzlies are protected. In some years there is a hunting season, but the hunt has recently been called off.

Believe it or not, in some places bears are actually attracted to gunshots if they are acculturated to elk and deer hunters. They seem to know they're protected and that a downed elk carcass is easy pickings. [Or maybe this was a tall tale from a wrangler who guided horseback hunting trips in the Rockies.)

t's a lot cheaper and eco-friendlier to be as bear-aware as possible. Killing Mama Bear may leave young cubs vulnerable and ultimately dead if they don't know how to fend for themselves. Grizzlies have a very low reproductive rate, so killing a female can have a big impact on a small population.

Out here, there is a brown variant of the black bear called a cinnamon bear. They are easy to confuse with grizzlies on account of their color but they lack the shoulder hump at the withers and their coats are much smoother.

People here also favor "bear bangers" which are a kind of small flare. You twist the top, pull the cord and it gives off a sound like a loud shot. Ideally it scares the bear away without having to spray it, let alone shoot it. Canadian Tire sells bear bangers, and probably most stores catering to outdoors people.

Rocinante, ditto on mountain biking. A couple of years ago a man was mauled by a grizzly not far from us while riding on a little-used road. He didn't see it until it was on top of him.

No one is suggesting that killing a bear, any bear, is the way to go. But if it's me or the bear it's going to be the bear. I don't care how protected they are. I'll face the lawsuit over being mauled. And if there are cubs involved report it to the Rangers and they will track them down. The reality is you can be as bear aware as ever and suddenly they are there. I lived in NW Wisconsin. We were bear aware. Bears all over the place. But you can be as bear aware as possible, but suddenly a cub and Mama bear are there and then what. I was walking down our private road and suddenly I noticed 2 cubs in a tree about 20' from me. Mama bear is not far away. And that's when they get aggressive should they feel you threaten their cubs. Thankfully bears generally will smell you and go the other way. But I've known too many hikers and hunters who have had very bad experiences.

[batman]

"Len n Jeanne:
Dogs are allowed in Canadian NPs, but not in most of the US national parks."

On the contrary MOST NP in the USA do allow pets (dogs, etc). Most have unique restrictions (6' leash, stay on paved roads, etc.)

https://www.nps.gov/subjects/pets/visit.htm

We have also camp hosted on the East side of the sierra Nevada. Black bear country (no Grizz). Bears know were to get the easiest food around. Your cooler. Being bear aware in any place they are is good advice.

I have chased off a couple bear and taken photos of said experience. I do not recommend this behavior to anyone. Just saying, they did not want confrontation just an easy meal.

Most of our camping is in the boondocks. way away from people. Bears in that situation are not as likely to be used to getting a meal from a cooler. So we have never had a bear issue boondocking. Of course we have bear spray and an air horn and the dogs. The wife I also carry (Glock-40 cal, S&W-357)while we are in the boonies. Never had to use the bear spray or a pistol on a bear. I have too much respect for bear, after all I have invaded there territory. I don't go looking for trouble (most of the time). But I have precautions just in case trouble comes for me or my family. It is my belief that in any situation it is better to be safe than sorry.

-Dennis

[Len n Jeanne]

Batman, I should have specified that dogs are allowed in US National Parks, but normally only on roads or in your CG. I was thinking hiking trails.

My point is it's better to do what you can to be Bear Aware than to reach the point where actual self defense becomes an issue.

We have a lot of bears where I live. The other day while walking the dog on our road, we came across a fresh pile of bear poop a few doors from our house. Sometimes we find it in our lawn. [ Bear poop is usually huge, and typically has fruit seeds in it.] Seeing the fresh stuff is a good reason to stay extra cautious.

A friend of ours wears bear spray on her hip just to do her gardening. She had a bear try to break into her basement door, with claw marks to prove it. When a bear got into her chickens she called the wildlife officer, who shot it. Problem bears normally do not relocate successfully.

I had close-enough range experience with a grizzly in the 1970s when doing field work in the Canadian Arctic. It tore into a couple of tents and showed no sign of leaving. The project leader did shoot it, but none of us felt any kind of macho satisfaction about killing it.

I am not ever suggesting that anyone risk their life to protect a bear.

This discussion makes me wonder, however, how many campers who travel with firearms would actually have them ready to shoot a bear at a second's notice.