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Old 08-29-2016, 12:02 PM   #71
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Spicewood (W of Austin) , Texas
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I'm glad to hear your dealer will take care of things.
Disregard the whiner/complainer/neer-do-weels that often post nothing but discouraging downer-"advice" (I'm sure U know iz referred 2 heer)

As for the claims that Airstream no longer builds ruggedness... keep in irmind that those who swear by they early Airstreams... may be pulling older designs sitting higher on leaf-spring suspensions which are certainly not the stiffer rides of torsion axles which have short-travel suspension. The torsion axles meet a certain need for low-ride-streamlining, but are not flexible enough to withstand true-off-roading hell-for-leather driving.
I also am opinionated regarding tires. ST tires belong on trailers. LTs and Ps on tow vehicles. But the problems run-into with STs are that owners
1- Run them underinflated. (They should be run at their max load pressure if you want longevity from them and anti-sway features to work as ST tires are designed.) The usual advice to run pressures commensurate with vehicle weight pertains to vehicles, not ST/trailer setups. If you run ST below rated pressure you will have early failure and sorry performance. (I am convinced the majority of the ST nay-sayers are victims of this violation.)
2-Replace them based upon chonological age and condition FIRST. Mileage is not a valid scale for these Special Task tires.
3- Remember, lowering the air pressure will give you a gentler-ride on rough roads. But that translates to tire sidewall-flex for which the tire was not intended. That equates to tire abuse. Keep tires inflated to the maximum as indicated on the tire sidewall, because THAT is the pressure for which that tire was designed. Ignore the usual practice of load vs inflation.
4- Do not store your trailer sitting on it's tires. Jack the weight off the tires for long-term storage. Long sitting on the tire creates a flat-spot that degrades tire life. Also, short term storage should place the tire upon a board or outdoor-carpet, etc. to protect it from turf or concrete which can damage the tire. Protect the tire of UV sunlight.
Here's the best info on trailer tires:
http://www.carlstargroup.com/cms_fil..._Practices.pdf

You will likely get a lot of opposing views on this, but that pdf file is directly from the people who make purpose-built tires. Who do you think knows more?
Hope this helps.
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Old 08-29-2016, 12:16 PM   #72
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2004 22' Safari
North Vancouver , British Columbia
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Originally Posted by aap View Post
Interestingly enough, I had my wife drive around the RV park with me in trailer to experience life on the inside, I was shocked at how much vibration was happening inside - I had heard towing one of these babies, is like a home going through a major earthquake, I understand why now

I understand your frustration and it sure sounds like a good part of the damage done was the result of poor workmanship/finishing - i.e micro not secure etc. .

But having said that I have experienced unexpected drawer and cabinet issues with both the Airstream as well as a couple of other brands of trailers over the years. Most of which I have had to take ownership for. I do prior to pulling away go through the trailer and double check every door and drawer to make sure they are actually latched well. Yet more than once I have missed one somehow as a result I now make it a habit to stop after I have gone a few miles to double check that everything is in fact well secured.

You would think after all these years I would get it all stored away and secure tightly without having to do that but the truth is sometimes I do not get it right and find surprises when opening the door of the trailer. As others have suggested putting large heavy items that can shift and bang up against doors is not a good thing - putting none skid liners in all the cabinets helps a bit with that. Any amount of dump or rocking with result in items popping doors open and contents sliding around on the floor of the trailer. Once the door is open and if its left swinging while traveling it can result in the hinges letting go. I have put a small strip of wood about 1/2" high along the edge of a couple of lower shelfs in the kitchen area, that helps prevent items that might slide from hitting the doors. I have also had to adjust the hinges on some of the overheads to put a bit more pressure on them as well - to stop them from popping up & allowing items to fly out when going over a bump a bit faster than I should have - try to avoid that but it does happen from time to time.

I have dealt with the same dealer and while they are not cheap they have provided me with good service. I hope they step up and fix the items that are clearly workmanship - i.e. the microwave flying around. If they do not repair all the damage they will IMO sure need to do some serious explaining as to why they feel those items were not damaged due to poor workmanship. Pretty sure one way or another your insurance company is going to want a REALLY good explanation before they pay for any of it!

Hope you get it resolved fast.
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Old 08-29-2016, 01:12 PM   #73
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Sorry about your shake-down trip. Good advice=good results. Thanks for giving us closure. Sometimes we never know the end result after a lot of positive advice. It's good to hear the Airstream network supports their product. Start planning your October trip. Camping with the changing autumn leaves is not to be missed. Sometimes I can't remember someone's name or date, but we know that all forum members have your best interest in mind. When you were buying your Airstream, did the dealer tell you about this priceless support group? Welcome to the family aap
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Old 08-29-2016, 03:37 PM   #74
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2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Originally Posted by Snaken49 View Post
AAP,

As we all know an AS is a house on wheels and in some respects an aircraft due to the design and construction of the shell. Both are subject to considerable vibration. On an aircraft critical bolt heads have holes drill for safety wire to prevent them from backing off.

Unfortunately the AS has nothing of the sort leading to screws vibrating loose over time, depending on the frequency of the vibration. I recommend as a preventive measure the following:

- Remove all metal to metal cabinet hinge screws and treat them with red LOCTITE Threadlocker http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/10/...er-Red-271.htm This will save doors from coming off the hinges. Use the same application for metal drawer handles.

- Periodically check and tighten all exposed drain lines under sinks and lavatories for loose connections. Do the same for your water filter if one is installed under the sink.


- Use wood glue for wood screws to reinstall those that back out of cabinet fixtures.

- Once a year check the fresh water, grey and black water tank cradle retaining bolts for obvious signs of backing off and rust. Some folks have experienced tanks falling off while traveling due to rust and corrosion.

- I highly recommend the (nearly) Complete Guide to Airstream Maintenance by Rich Luhr. It will provide you with many other useful tips on keeping your rig in top shape.

http://store.airstreamlife.com/produ...am-maintenance

Rich also offers the Newbies Guide to Airstreaming

http://store.airstreamlife.com/colle...o-airstreaming

In regards to your dealer not wanting to warranty the work instead suggesting that you file an insurance claim. This is often the case where a dealer is not satisfied with the labor rate that Airstream will pay for warranty repairs vice what an insurance company will allow. Airstream dealers are not all equal in the care and treatment of their AS customers. Some dealers refuse to do warranty repairs on Airstreams that they did not sell. Other dealers will say that they are too booked up with big motor home repair work and will direct you to other authorized Airstream warranty repair facilities in the area. It should not be this way, but it is.

Finally, you can send a PM to me for information on corrosion issues.

All the best! joe

Hey Joe -

First off - THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!

Additionally, thanks for the additional "wealth" of information - I will definitely put this to use. Hope you noticed my update on the dealer, looks like they are going to do the right thing after all.

Thanks again,
-anthony
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Old 08-29-2016, 03:58 PM   #75
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"""Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
aap... your 23 foot Airstream with, now, 15" wheels and D Rated tires is ready to experience highway and Forest Service roads. The lift kit does not give you any additional clearance. The axle is your maximum clearance. The lower center of gravity is better than the lift kit advantages, if any... but this is my opinion. """

I have installed the lift kit. It lifts the frame. Along with the 16" tires I had installed, my trailer frame is nearly 4" higher. The axle clearance remains the same, but my driving on FS roads, and in and out of culverts has dramatically improved due to rear end clearance.....most notably sewer connections.
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:00 PM   #76
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2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by streaminwild View Post
Sorry about your shake-down trip. Good advice=good results. Thanks for giving us closure. Sometimes we never know the end result after a lot of positive advice. It's good to hear the Airstream network supports their product. Start planning your October trip. Camping with the changing autumn leaves is not to be missed. Sometimes I can't remember someone's name or date, but we know that all forum members have your best interest in mind. When you were buying your Airstream, did the dealer tell you about this priceless support group? Welcome to the family aap
You bet...nope, they didn't tell me about the group...but I'm glad to have found it. Hopefully we will meet some of you on the road...thanks again!

-anthony
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:04 PM   #77
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2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
I'm glad to hear your dealer will take care of things.
Disregard the whiner/complainer/neer-do-weels that often post nothing but discouraging downer-"advice" (I'm sure U know iz referred 2 heer)

As for the claims that Airstream no longer builds ruggedness... keep in irmind that those who swear by they early Airstreams... may be pulling older designs sitting higher on leaf-spring suspensions which are certainly not the stiffer rides of torsion axles which have short-travel suspension. The torsion axles meet a certain need for low-ride-streamlining, but are not flexible enough to withstand true-off-roading hell-for-leather driving.
I also am opinionated regarding tires. ST tires belong on trailers. LTs and Ps on tow vehicles. But the problems run-into with STs are that owners
1- Run them underinflated. (They should be run at their max load pressure if you want longevity from them and anti-sway features to work as ST tires are designed.) The usual advice to run pressures commensurate with vehicle weight pertains to vehicles, not ST/trailer setups. If you run ST below rated pressure you will have early failure and sorry performance. (I am convinced the majority of the ST nay-sayers are victims of this violation.)
2-Replace them based upon chonological age and condition FIRST. Mileage is not a valid scale for these Special Task tires.
3- Remember, lowering the air pressure will give you a gentler-ride on rough roads. But that translates to tire sidewall-flex for which the tire was not intended. That equates to tire abuse. Keep tires inflated to the maximum as indicated on the tire sidewall, because THAT is the pressure for which that tire was designed. Ignore the usual practice of load vs inflation.
4- Do not store your trailer sitting on it's tires. Jack the weight off the tires for long-term storage. Long sitting on the tire creates a flat-spot that degrades tire life. Also, short term storage should place the tire upon a board or outdoor-carpet, etc. to protect it from turf or concrete which can damage the tire. Protect the tire of UV sunlight.
Here's the best info on trailer tires:
http://www.carlstargroup.com/cms_fil..._Practices.pdf

You will likely get a lot of opposing views on this, but that pdf file is directly from the people who make purpose-built tires. Who do you think knows more?
Hope this helps.
Awesome PDF...I tend to agree on tires based on years of motorcycle racing...Thanks for your support and all the information supplied. Its easy to weed out the good from the bad, always
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:13 PM   #78
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2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEagle6 View Post
"""Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
aap... your 23 foot Airstream with, now, 15" wheels and D Rated tires is ready to experience highway and Forest Service roads. The lift kit does not give you any additional clearance. The axle is your maximum clearance. The lower center of gravity is better than the lift kit advantages, if any... but this is my opinion. """

I have installed the lift kit. It lifts the frame. Along with the 16" tires I had installed, my trailer frame is nearly 4" higher. The axle clearance remains the same, but my driving on FS roads, and in and out of culverts has dramatically improved due to rear end clearance.....most notably sewer connections.

Good info...the lift kit I have only lifts 1" plus the 15" tires/rims...I bought a bit of clearance but still don't like the way the black/grey water outs are pretty low...in fact, they installed wheels on the bumper which look cool, but if i'm dragging those, I would have busted off the sewage down spouts

Thanks for the response and the info - much appreciated!
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:55 PM   #79
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2015 30' Classic
Sherwood , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aap View Post
This sounds exactly like the setup we have, which leave 3.5 links showing on the bottom end

What kind of gas mileage you getting in the F350? - I want to upgrade to an F250 for sure. Interestingly enough, and a Kudo for Airstream, our gas mileage was only 1mpg less than normal on the way to Montana, and close to normal on the way home...
We towed with a Range Rover HSE the first year and though she could handle our AS, we could feel the AS especially downhill into a curve. Also, the long uphill grades were at 45 MPH and we felt we were shortening the life of the Rover. The point is, the Rover is very close to a 3/4 ton with a six speed, oil cooled tyranny so when we did our research for a new TV we decided on the F350 with the 6.7 Power Stroke diesel. The only difference between the F250 and F350 is an extra leaf spring on the rear axle that doesn't come into play until the load requires it so the ride is the same as an F250 and you don't have the rear end sag that others have had to cure with added air bag suspension. Great truck so far, we only have 4K miles towing and running from the valley to Crater Lake, across the Coastal Range to run up and down the coast we have averaged 12.6 MPG. I am in Tow/Haul mode all the time and lock out 6th gear most of the time. Love the exhaust brake, just returned from Astoria and did not apply the brakes manually at all over the Coastal Range.

Glad you were able to resolve the warranty issue, safe travels and happy camping!
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:49 PM   #80
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2015 22' FB Sport
Kansas City , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
I'm glad to hear your dealer will take care of things.
Disregard the whiner/complainer/neer-do-weels that often post nothing but discouraging downer-"advice" (I'm sure U know iz referred 2 heer)

As for the claims that Airstream no longer builds ruggedness... keep in irmind that those who swear by they early Airstreams... may be pulling older designs sitting higher on leaf-spring suspensions which are certainly not the stiffer rides of torsion axles which have short-travel suspension. The torsion axles meet a certain need for low-ride-streamlining, but are not flexible enough to withstand true-off-roading hell-for-leather driving.
I also am opinionated regarding tires. ST tires belong on trailers. LTs and Ps on tow vehicles. But the problems run-into with STs are that owners
1- Run them underinflated. (They should be run at their max load pressure if you want longevity from them and anti-sway features to work as ST tires are designed.) The usual advice to run pressures commensurate with vehicle weight pertains to vehicles, not ST/trailer setups. If you run ST below rated pressure you will have early failure and sorry performance. (I am convinced the majority of the ST nay-sayers are victims of this violation.)
2-Replace them based upon chonological age and condition FIRST. Mileage is not a valid scale for these Special Task tires.
3- Remember, lowering the air pressure will give you a gentler-ride on rough roads. But that translates to tire sidewall-flex for which the tire was not intended. That equates to tire abuse. Keep tires inflated to the maximum as indicated on the tire sidewall, because THAT is the pressure for which that tire was designed. Ignore the usual practice of load vs inflation.
4- Do not store your trailer sitting on it's tires. Jack the weight off the tires for long-term storage. Long sitting on the tire creates a flat-spot that degrades tire life. Also, short term storage should place the tire upon a board or outdoor-carpet, etc. to protect it from turf or concrete which can damage the tire. Protect the tire of UV sunlight.
Here's the best info on trailer tires:
http://www.carlstargroup.com/cms_fil..._Practices.pdf

You will likely get a lot of opposing views on this, but that pdf file is directly from the people who make purpose-built tires. Who do you think knows more?
Hope this helps.
This is an EXCELLENT article on tires. Thanks for posting it.
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Old 08-29-2016, 09:36 PM   #81
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2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Walnut Creek , California
Join Date: May 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aap View Post
Good info...the lift kit I have only lifts 1" plus the 15" tires/rims...I bought a bit of clearance but still don't like the way the black/grey water outs are pretty low...in fact, they installed wheels on the bumper which look cool, but if i'm dragging those, I would have busted off the sewage down spouts

Thanks for the response and the info - much appreciated!
It sounds like the lift and the tires raise the dump valves approximately 2" and that has significant value. On the 23 those valves are quite low. The fact that the axle remains at stock level is of less concern, but interesting to note.

The wheels at the rear skid pads, are likely a mistake. They reduce clearance. If they were mounted on the side of the skids with only about a 1/2 in of wheel below the pad, that might be a help. However, usually they are mounted to the bottom of the pad and will bottom several inches before where the original configuration would clear. When I investigated this modification it was generally presented that the frame of an AS is not intended to be strong enough to support all of the trailer mass from the rear, which would be the worst case grounding configuration where the trailer was suspended by the ball and those caster wheels.

The key point here is that severe transitions are problematic. Folks who get through them often carry planks and blocks to bridge holes and drop offs. They are also constantly stopping to assess and adjust the rig position to compensate/resolve road surface irregularity. Does not sound like a good way to disconnect, but folks do it.

The other issue you bring up is replacing the 1/2 with a 3/4. Note the 3/4 will be stiffer and transfer more road induced force to the trailer. That means you need to get a handle on your WDH setup and understand how to best tune the hitch to limit the force transfer while retaining sway control. It is a journey. Hang in there. Pat
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Old 08-29-2016, 10:00 PM   #82
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AAP - you might find this thread helpful in adjusting your BOSP hitch. There are several others that are worth finding and reading.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...-123666-9.html

Did you establish which bars you are using - the 750s or the 1000s?

Pat
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Old 08-30-2016, 05:50 AM   #83
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Yes, the wheels on the rear are a bad idea, can cause frame damage. The best accessory for rough roads is four wheel drive and proper tv tires for that purpose. My two wheel drive Cummins is difficult with street tires as far as off roading goes..also a non diesel truck would be better for that purpose, less weight on the front end. My opinion from experience, no other facts to back it up. You can have ten inches of trailer lift and still be stuck if the tv is inadequate.
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Old 08-30-2016, 06:31 AM   #84
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2008 22' Sport
Spicewood (W of Austin) , Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEagle6 View Post
"""Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
aap... your 23 foot Airstream with, now, 15" wheels and D Rated tires is ready to experience highway and Forest Service roads. The lift kit does not give you any additional clearance. The axle is your maximum clearance. The lower center of gravity is better than the lift kit advantages, if any... but this is my opinion. """

I have installed the lift kit. It lifts the frame. Along with the 16" tires I had installed, my trailer frame is nearly 4" higher. The axle clearance remains the same, but my driving on FS roads, and in and out of culverts has dramatically improved due to rear end clearance.....most notably sewer connections.
On my AS, there is a nearly-useless steel "skid plate support" for the sewer drain. Before the lift-kit, in a level condition, the skid plate was 7.5" above the pavement. The actual plastic pipe-assy was 8"....barely adequate, considering it's location aft of the wheels and the debris they throw at it, to avoid contact with ordinary fod on the interstate. The amount of road "alligators" left by 18-wheeler-retread-cast-aways on the highway is a danger to everyone, but these lower-mounted sewer-drains are particularly vulnerable. Lots of folks drag them simply entering/exiting gas stations when the wheel enters the driveway-drain area while the sewer-drain drags the roadway-crown.
The lift kit raised my sewer-drain skid from 7.5 to 10.5 (the actual pipes from 8 to 12) inches. Quite an improvement.
I'm almost ready to consider mud flaps on the AS.
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