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05-12-2020, 08:42 AM
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#1981
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Thanks again Peter. They ran out of space on Sunday, so I got bumped to Tuesday.
On the presidential succession, if the vice presidency is vacant either through resignation, death, or succession to the presidency, the president can appoint a vp and congress has to approve or reject the nominee. If both president and vp die before that happens, the next in line is the speaker of the house. The idea was that someone who has been elected by citizens should be in the office. The old succession law made the secretary of state next in line.
As a practical matter I can’t imagine this congress approving anyone appointed for vp by either of the present occupants. The amendment was used twice—when Ford became president after Nixon resigned and Nelson Rockefeller became vp and before that when Nixon nominated Ford after Agnew resigned in disgrace.
If both vp and president are intubated, that could be a problem. Being too lazy to go get the constitution, I don’t think the succession amendment anticipated both being unable to serve but still alive.
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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05-12-2020, 08:46 AM
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#1982
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Yup . . . that last phrase is where I was gazing.
Peter
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05-12-2020, 10:49 AM
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#1983
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Normal
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
Good new column, Gene . . . well said all around:
https://www.gjsentinel.com/opinion/c...28fa4c331.html
"If . . . county citizens can’t tolerate inconveniences of distancing and wearing face coverings, or businesses ignore good practices, we may see an outbreak, setting us back a month or more."
. . . with the emphasis on that last phrase . . . "or more" . . .
Very few folks "get" how debilitating a second wave of infection could be, in part, because society is ready to "get back to normal," and their new blinders will prevent seeing the re-surging virus until it grabs them where it really hurts!
Unfortunately, they won't wake up from their slumber, until the "old normal" does not come back, and they have to cross da Nile, and deal with the "new normal." [*]
The virus does not care what folks want, but it will surely give them what they need . . . [**]
It's gonna be a rude wake-up call!
Peter
[*] -- Da Nile is a wide river to cross!
[**] -- Apologies to the Stones -- "You Can't Always Get What You Want, But You Get What You Need."
Sometimes what folks need is a good whack aside the head, and they are about to get it! [IMO]
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If we only had a consistent message from the top.
The out-of-both-sides-of-the-mouth thing is a non-starter.
Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
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05-12-2020, 12:26 PM
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#1984
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Now having moved to another part of the room, I looked at the 25th Amendment, approved in 1967. Much has been written out when the president can be removed if unable to discharge his/her duties, but would the vp and cabinet take over if the president was intubated? The whole process is cumbersome and involves congress as a final arbiter. Would the president fight it somehow? Given a president who is in his mid-70's, is obese (a major "underlying" factor in deaths) and seems to have cardiovascular issues, his prognosis if he is infected is not good. The VP is weeks way from being 61, don't know his health concerns. But both are vulnerable. The amendment does not contemplate both being unable to serve simultaneously.
But the succession statute runs into possible problems with the constitution's succession clause (Art. II, §1[6]). Only an "officer" may be "acting president" and members of congress apparently are not federal "officers". The context of the use of the word "officer" comes into play. For ex., Art. II, §4 refers to those eligible for impeachment as "civil officers", not "officers". Such things can matter. Can you imagine if the supreme court is to decide who is president? But federal judges are "officers" since they can be impeached, so why aren't members of congress "officers"? I am not familiar with the case law on that, but may be soon enough.
Succession is tricky. When the British PM was sick, he designated a cabinet member as acting PM. The UK does not seem to have a succession statute except for monarchs, so the decision was questioned. The important thing to the public is legitimacy. Does the succession make sense to the public? If the person assuming the office does so in a way people consider illegitimate, you have a political crisis that does not go away easily.
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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05-12-2020, 01:16 PM
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#1985
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene
. . .
. . . If the person assuming the office does so in a way people consider illegitimate, you have a political crisis that does not go away easily.
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. . . and therein lies the rub, if the current Leader of the House were to be next in line . . . emphasis on your closing phrase.
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05-12-2020, 02:02 PM
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#1986
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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Slight Hijack
Another concern on the "getting back to normal path"
This pandemic MAY create a whole new generation of super-savers which will keep the economy stifled for years. My parents had children late due to the Depression and WWII. And they were legendary? Obsessive? Almost crazed? (How much can you prosper because momma makes her own dish cloths by crocheting old string? That story is a no-kidder!)
What happens WHEN hundreds of thousands of people lose their homes, cars, and their faith that the future will ever be secure again? Most WILL permanently alter their spending habits. How will the economy do if many people pack a lunch instead of doing McLunch? How many parents are going to clip their own dogs... and then look at the kids and ask, "you want a mohawk for the summer?" How many children will hear, "eat it or wear it!" when they opine that cheap rolled oats taste like lumpy paste? The service economy could be cut by 2/3rds. Cars, trucks and other motorized toys - we are already seeing craigslist bulge as people who need food money realize that they don't NEED a Harley or a jet ski.
If the auto industry's sale of new vehicles drops 50%... will the economy become normal in 5 months... or in 5 years?
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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05-12-2020, 02:24 PM
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#1987
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Normal
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,078
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I believe that intubation by definition would make one unable to discharge their duties, as the act of performing and maintaining intubation requires a medically induced coma.
Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
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05-12-2020, 02:29 PM
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#1988
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Normal
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,078
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I agree with you, Paula, that this pandemic will be life altering in many ways for all of us able to know what we are collectively going thru.
Once you have experienced something, it becomes hardwired into you, even if you don’t consciously recall it.
Your perspective on yourself and others changes, also your perspective on the world.
You can’t un-ring a bell, as a Doug would say.
Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
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05-12-2020, 03:16 PM
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#1989
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Absolutely, intubation means medically induced coma.
And yes to changes in spending as a result of depressions, recessions and crises in general. The Millennial generation will have their second hit—this and the Great Recession. Inadequate government stimulus in 2009 meant years more suffering. Three plus years lack of much government intervention from 1929 to 1933 means years more suffering. A deep economic hit does not all a fast recovery if you don't get after it right away, and the intervention has to be massive to work well. After WW II was won, there was, despite a post war recession, an air of hope in the future prevailed for years until Viet Nam and subsequent negative campaigning managed to end it.
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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05-12-2020, 04:33 PM
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#1990
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Moderator
Vintage Kin Owner
...
, ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,696
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Closed for Cleaning
__________________
"One of the best lessons I've learned is that you don't worry about criticism from people you wouldn't seek advice from."
William C. Swinney
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