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Old 01-23-2014, 09:10 AM   #561
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Gas furnace/heater should be vented to the outside so that the carbon monoxide produced by combustion ends up out there. Stove, since it is intended for intermittent use, is not vented. Any CO it produces (and all combustion produces some) will end up inside where you are sleeping.

Even if using a properly vented furnace, you should have a CO detector with fresh batteries in the trailer if you sleep there.

Please take this seriously. Every year a few people just don't wake up.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:14 AM   #562
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Your gas furnace exhausts the fumes to the outside of your trailer. Your stove top exhausts carbon monoxide into your trailer.

Carbon monoxide can slowly put you to sleep and once asleep, you are unable to escape the hazard. Hundreds of people die in a carbon monoxide induced sleep every year according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Those that don’t die from heating their homes with gas stoves still experience less than lethal, but still harmful, side effects. “At low concentrations, [CO can cause] fatigue in healthy people and chest pain in people with heart disease. At higher concentrations, [CO can cause] impaired vision and coordination; headaches; dizziness; confusion; nausea. Fatal at very high concentrations.”
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:22 AM   #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
Your gas furnace exhausts the fumes to the outside of your trailer. Your stove top exhausts carbon monoxide into your trailer.”
True but not necessarily more dangerous than cooking. Big risk in an RV is that they are pretty air tight without much makeup air.

Whether running our propane stove for cooking or for emergency heat, we crack open a cabin window and the roof vent.

It does not take much outside air to make up for the minor amount of CO and moisture the stove burner puts out.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:18 AM   #564
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Meant to type "It does not take much outside air to make up for the minor amount of CO2 and moisture the stove burner puts out."
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:29 AM   #565
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Whether running our propane stove for cooking or for emergency heat, we crack open a cabin window and the roof vent.

It does not take much outside air to make up for the minor amount of CO and moisture the stove burner puts out.
The OP wrote about running the stove and a propane heater all night while they slept. Without any mention of open windows or vents. Even then, I don't think it's very safe to go to bed with a open flame on the stove.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:34 AM   #566
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Even then, I don't think it's very safe to go to bed with a open flame on the stove.
From the rest of the OP's story, neither is going to bed in that walmart parking lot
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:25 PM   #567
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The CO strongly binds to hemoglobin at the site where oxygen was supposed to - it's bad news

I think the symptoms would be noticeable more so while cooking than while sleeping
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:24 AM   #568
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The CO strongly binds to hemoglobin at the site where oxygen was supposed to - it's bad news

I think the symptoms would be noticeable more so while cooking than while sleeping
Airstream's have detectors but more important they installed a vent to outside over our stove, use the fan(with a resistor to slow and quiet it) and it should be able to get rid of CO produced. If flame is blue very little is produced. yellow and it does.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:36 AM   #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
The OP wrote about running the stove and a propane heater all night while they slept. Without any mention of open windows or vents. Even then, I don't think it's very safe to go to bed with a open flame on the stove.
I posted this on another thread earlier today, but it's pertinent to this discussion as well…
Quote:
I think my biggest concern with using a stove or cooktop for "comfort" heat is not oxygen depletion or carbon monoxide buildup; it's a draft from the window you left open blowing out the flame and letting unburned propane accumulate in your living space while you're asleep. With the furnace, even if the flame should go out for some reason, any unburned propane ends up outside. With the stove, propane would accumulate below the level of the open window, unless you've got enough air exhange to make the stove worthless for heat anyway.

Propane is poisonous to breathe at lower concentrations than it would take for it to ignite (and lower concentrations than your LPG detector will detect, by the way). And while you're asleep, your breathing zone is closer to the floor where propane vapors would build up.

Stoves and cooktops are designed to be used with human supervision, not to be turned on and left unattended overnight.

For those that are interested, here are the numbers:
Propane lower explosive limit = 2.1% in air (21,000 parts per million)
Propane upper explosive limit = 9.5% in air (95,000 parts per million)
OSHA permissible exposure limit = 0.1% in air (1000 parts per million) 8-hour time-weighted average (i.e. 1000 ppm in 8 hours, 1333 ppm in 6 hours, 2000 ppm in 4 hours, etc.)
Detectable threshold for an Atwood ProTechTor LPG detector = 0.2% in air (2000 parts per million).

Propane is an asphyxiant, and can cause damage to your central nervous system if breathed even if it doesn't asphyxiate you.

Propane can become dangerous to breathe before your detector will sound an alarm. An unattended propane flame inside your living spaces is a Bad Idea™. Period.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:19 PM   #570
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Wal Mart

I have stayed in Walmart lots many times and never had a problem. Normally do some shopping.
You will find some nutty people just driving around the lot, sometimes with loud music, but this normally stops at some point.
The Walmart US map has a list of all WalMarts in the back.
These stores offer a great benefit to campers and I typically use one when I am not sure how far I am going to drive. Just go till tired and find Walmart.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:00 PM   #571
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There is an APP for Iphones called ALLSTAYS. This app is great it gives ever camp ground, rv park, and every walmart, it tells you if you can or can not park in the lot, plus it gives you the phone numbers. Great app. Can't travel with out it.
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:17 AM   #572
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saw this article pop up in my facebook feed...I kinda chuckled because after reading this thread, I was not entirely sold on the notion that ordinances passed were not relatively "grass roots" as opposed to cooked up by "big campground business" - not sure the indignation expressed the need for "RV civil disobedience" is really warranted.

I suspect hyperconcerned local citizens focusing on the relatively rare bad apples are the biggest driving force for such regs passed?

I can only say I have seen a couple walmart sightings where those folks were breaking the "rules"...

RV Civil Disobedience in the Parking Lot | The small motorhome lifestyle : Roadtreking | The small motorhome and RV lifestyle
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:14 AM   #573
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Hmm civil disobedience in a Walmart parking lot could be the title of my next book......
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:58 AM   #574
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Hah - we avoid commercial campgrounds like the plague. Provincial Parks etc all the way. Last weekend we were invited to stay on a fairground, in a small town in Ontario, by a wooded area by the river. Not a bad place to camp for free.



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