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Old 10-20-2013, 09:28 AM   #491
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Why do one suppose so many localities are involved in passing ordinances banning ONP in places like WalMart parking lots?
Because your getting something for free.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:39 AM   #492
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Why do one suppose so many localities are involved in passing ordinances banning ONP in places like WalMart parking lots?
I suspect there are several different reasons, all having to do with local political influence as well as location.

Location can involve things like proximity to major throughfares (trucker traffic) and/or to major tourist attractions and/or to major economic drivers like oil producing fields. It can also involve age of town, where some locales just don't have the space for large parking lots.

Local political influence is harder to judge and may involve simple stuff like who-knows-whom. If some RV park owner happens to be well connected, for instance, that could play a role. Ultimately, though, the influence of RV parks may relate to real or perceived enonomic impact, which might dovetail nicely with the location factor: A small town in a tourist area with one RV park and no other motels or hotels would differ from a town with lots of RV parks and fewer hotels/motels in a tourist area. In many cases, though, RV parks are considered to be "low income housing" by the non-RVing public, including local political leaders. (Indeed, it doesn't help a bit when a WM lot is invaded by broken-down rigs filled with people who are using the place to live on a semi-permanent basis.)

In the end, it's just hard to pinpoint a single causal factor that would apply across the board to all situations.


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Old 10-20-2013, 09:43 AM   #493
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Might be that

The signs make it easy to get rid of people that stay too long or are acting up.
In Durango, it has been thought that the local campgrounds took issue.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:23 PM   #494
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Because your getting something for free.
(laughter) Well yes, I think that drives a lot of people nuts at the Chamber of Commerce, for instance. There is an ingrained cultural aversion regarding letting anyone get anything for free. Whether intended as a tongue in cheek comment or not, I think your pithy response is the simple truth.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:44 AM   #495
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I think everyone forgets that municipalities are businesses just like any other business and derive their income from taxes, fees, on local businesses. When there is something for free that takes from the local economy, and this is what is driving the majority of these laws. Then there is the local campgrounds who are having to pay these taxes and fees regardless of whether anyone uses their campground or not and when they see people staying in parking lots not for just a few hours but for day, days, then that is money out of their pocket, and as a business owner you open a business to make money. Many on here are business owners ask them if they have a business that they do to do for free.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:55 AM   #496
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I think everyone forgets that municipalities are businesses just like any other business and derive their income from taxes, fees, on local businesses. When there is something for free that takes from the local economy, and this is what is driving the majority of these laws. Then there is the local campgrounds who are having to pay these taxes and fees regardless of whether anyone uses their campground or not and when they see people staying in parking lots not for just a few hours but for day, days, then that is money out of their pocket, and as a business owner you open a business to make money. Many on here are business owners ask them if they have a business that they do to do for free.
If you stay at a WM your not taking anything from the local municipalities because its money they didn't have in the first place. If they pass laws to force you into campgrounds they are the ones stealing your money. If a local campground pushes to get laws passed to force you to stay at their campground they are either greedy or should close their business if they cant get enough customers to pay for the campground. Every direction you turn nowdays someone is trying to squeeze money from you.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:15 AM   #497
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Because your getting something for free.
My stay has never been free, even if we don't need anything, just walking in to let management know we would like to park for the night, we always find something we need and it will save a trip out later. Our class A does not do small parking lots especially when towing. If Walmart thought it was free they too would be upset, they are in business to make money.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:19 AM   #498
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That pretty much gets to my comment about perceived or real economic impact. If the local leaders perceive the business as a source of income, then they'll do everything they can to squeeze your customers. But it is often perception, especially in towns whose hotel/motel spaces massively overwhelm the number of RV park spaces, making the RV park look like a tiny flea, and often an unwanted one at that.

Speaking personally, I don't buy into the idea. We don't have a WalMart or anything like it here, but we do have big parking lots at the resort ski base. And the way I see it, if folks want to stay someplace in one of the parking lots, that's their choice. Forcing them to park their rigs in the RV park will just upset people. We do fine without them, and it serves no purpose to bring in angry people just to make a couple of extra bucks. (And when those same folks come here wanting to use bathrooms and showers and to get discounted propane, well, the answer is no.)


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Originally Posted by SARGE/AF View Post
I think everyone forgets that municipalities are businesses just like any other business and derive their income from taxes, fees, on local businesses. When there is something for free that takes from the local economy, and this is what is driving the majority of these laws. Then there is the local campgrounds who are having to pay these taxes and fees regardless of whether anyone uses their campground or not and when they see people staying in parking lots not for just a few hours but for day, days, then that is money out of their pocket, and as a business owner you open a business to make money. Many on here are business owners ask them if they have a business that they do to do for free.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:37 AM   #499
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Because your getting something for free.
That's it in a nutshell. Lot's of people can't allow that, and they don't know why.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:45 AM   #500
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Personally I just don't like the idea of camping in parking lots. The major reason is the issue of safety. Not just the fact that a private campground has some safety features that a campground doesn't, but I like the fact that there are other like minded folks around me. Not that they are going to come to my rescue, but the fact that there is some sense that folks up to no good aren't going to come to a campground where there are others nearby. Large parking lots are a different issue and just the fact that there is an exposure factor where you are the odd duck sitting in the big pond. Not to speak of transient traffic where individuals sometimes act on the spur of the moment opportunity.

Compound that with the unfamiliarity of the area. Again not all campgrounds are in pristine locations, but I could show you some WalMarts in our metro area that look just great, but back to some pretty rough areas that have some high crime rates. I shudder when I see folks spending the night at these locales.

Yet on the positive side, I hear no news reports of problems, and I'm sure if overnighting in a parking lot was as bad as my apprehensions, the word would spread like wildfire. So I guess a lot of this is with your own personal level of comfort.

I remember a smaller town in the south that had a large parking lot next to a football stadium. The lot had full hookup sites was totally paved and had ample lights. You paid into an honor system box. The night I stayed there the lot was completely vacant (late November) during the week. The lot was up on a hill, no traffic to speak of, yet I felt uncomfortable. Again for my part it was the exposure factor and the odd duck in the big pond syndrome. I guess part of this is growing up and living in a metropolitan area. You hear the stories of senseless crimes and the victims are sometimes just the matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Old 10-22-2013, 08:11 AM   #501
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I think everyone forgets that municipalities are businesses just like any other business and derive their income from taxes, fees, on local businesses.
No, municipalities are not businesses like any other business. They aren't "businesses" at all. They are governments which exist to serve and provide benefits and services to the public. Business exists to provide benefit in the way of profits to their owners.

Now, sure enough many who work for municipalities like to think it is their private estate in which the citizens are supposed to be serving them and enriching them, but that is of course a form of corruption.

IME, most small towns and small cities are dominated by the Chamber of Commerce and local developers. Their interests are naturally different than those of the citizens.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:17 AM   #502
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The ONLY place we've had any security issues while traveling is while camping at a State Park in Florida. Never had any while overnighting it at Walmart. Now if I could get Walmart to have that darned sweeper truck come ummmm say around 10am I could get some real sleep while there.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:31 AM   #503
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Small town politics are really something to behold. It often has nothing to do with what is best for all. Indeed, a lot of small towns are also "company towns," where the company pretty much dictates way more than it should and dominates local goverment as well as chamber of commerce.

But back to the topic at hand. There are quite a few Walmarts where it's possible to stay. We keep on wanting to stay at the Walmart in Farmington (shopping!), but every time somehow wind up at the RV park in town instead.

Shop until you drop at a Walmart? Check your maps for points due west of Farmington, NM. Then you'll understand ...


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No, municipalities are not businesses like any other business. They aren't "businesses" at all. They are governments which exist to serve and provide benefits and services to the public. Business exists to provide benefit in the way of profits to their owners.

Now, sure enough many who work for municipalities like to think it is their private estate in which the citizens are supposed to be serving them and enriching them, but that is of course a form of corruption.

IME, most small towns and small cities are dominated by the Chamber of Commerce and local developers. Their interests are naturally different than those of the citizens.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:54 AM   #504
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Shop until you drop at a Walmart? Check your maps for points due west of Farmington, NM. Then you'll understand ...
=========
A ways into Utah....huh?

I'm not particularly interested to park in WM, but I am becoming aware that budgets are getting tight for a lot of people, and RV park fees are rising, and at least in California, State Parks are closing. So, I am fundamentally opposed to anything that reduces people's choices and ability to move around freely. I see it moving in the wrong direction where only the well-off will be able to afford travel.
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