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Old 12-12-2009, 12:52 PM   #281
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So, let's apply SARGE/AF's logic to truckers: from now on I shall assume that a trucker who drives fatuiged thinks that a child's life is only worth a parking ticket.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:09 PM   #282
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Sarge, to fault Rodney for parking where the truck stop said was ok is wrong.

I have no doubt truckers are pushed to the breaking point by trucking companies, but that is not anyone's else's fault. That there is no where to stop and limited parking when you do stop is a bad situation, but the fault lies elsewhere. This is a problem without an easy solution and little interest among those with the power to solve it.

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Old 12-12-2009, 01:57 PM   #283
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"Only a fool takes offense where none is intended."

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Originally Posted by fmrcaptevil View Post
So, let's apply SARGE/AF's logic to truckers: from now on I shall assume that a trucker who drives fatuiged thinks that a child's life is only worth a parking ticket.
Hey, can we chill out here? Sarge just gave us a new prospective, a trucker's prospective, that we didn't have before. Take it as it was intended. We choose what offends us. Let's choose not to be offended, but to be informed.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:16 AM   #284
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I have a simple question, how do they put up with that for a career? I mean it seems to me to require hazardous pay or something. How much rest does he get, and the long term fatigue must impact safety. I hope and feel confident the inter-modal system will start to reduce truck volume. No matter how one looks at this subject, way too many trucks on the road and the train system is going to impact this army of semis on the road. Trust me on this, I see huge incentives in my business to use over the road alternatives.
Answer; Sleepers on trucks are designed to minimise noise levels inside the truck, then when you listen to one of these all the time you kinda get used to it like listening to a radio all night. When I pulled refers I got to the point that I had to sometimes leave it run just to sleep, it all depends on the unit, some older units are noisy when they are in the run/pause settings, thats why we leave them on full time run, others are not that bad really.
As far as intermodel system or railroad the reasons you dont see them used that much is 1) cost, a diesel train only gets 2 miles to a gallon, maintainance is high cost, then trains do not service all cities so it ends up on a truck, 2) the union has a big part in it, once on a train union trucks are priority to pull the freight unless no union trucks are available then can go to non union, or the frieght is brokered out then moved to another site at which time a non union truck can get it. 3) freight will set in yards for days until it is mated to a load so it takes longer to get the freight to its destination, with trucks in most cases freight is delivered in 24 to 48 hours. A load of fruit from the west coast to the east coast can take as long as a month, where a truck team operation can have that same load there in 4 days because the truck runs non-stop except for fuel and change drivers.
As far as trucks on the road it is supply and demand by the public that dictates what method of transportation is used and the speed in which it has to arrive. Take things such as fruits, beans, potatoes, meat, all of this is time sensitive and can not sit on a truck or rail, once loaded it has to get to market for the consumer or it goes bad, and believe me everything has been tried to stop or slow the process.


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As far as taking that spot. I paid taxes to use that rest area. No guilt trip here. Its called sharing the road, if some trucker wants to fall asleep on the road then his company and dispatcher have real problems,not me. And if flying J or some other private enterprise says ok, then its mine. It is up to the trucking companies to make a safe trip for all involved,not me.
Rest areas I dont have a problem with it is a first come first serve type thing in my opinion. If a driver makes the choice to drive when tired then I agree with you, but when a driver is forced because of someones actions then that is different, then the guilt is on that person. No it is not up to the trucking companies nor the driver, granted any company such as Flying J, Pilot, that allows things other than trucks to park in truck areas share in the resposibility with the person who parked in that spot for the consequences of their actions.
I am just trying to say that when it is time to park there are other alternatives besides taking a spot that is needed by someone who can not park in other areas like campers can. No guilt trip intended unless you have one on your own because you know what you are doing.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:19 AM   #285
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So, let's apply SARGE/AF's logic to truckers: from now on I shall assume that a trucker who drives fatuiged thinks that a child's life is only worth a parking ticket.
And you would be correct in your statement this is why there are truckers who are serving 10-15 prison sentences for making just that decision.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:22 AM   #286
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Sarge, to fault Rodney for parking where the truck stop said was ok is wrong.
I have no doubt truckers are pushed to the breaking point by trucking companies, but that is not anyone's else's fault. That there is no where to stop and limited parking when you do stop is a bad situation, but the fault lies elsewhere. This is a problem without an easy solution and little interest among those with the power to solve it.Gene
I was not trying to fault anyone, just make a point of their actions the repocussions it has on a system that is already broken and bad. Not to mention that campers have an alternative in parking that trucks do not have.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:25 AM   #287
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Hey, can we chill out here? Sarge just gave us a new prospective, a trucker's prospective, that we didn't have before. Take it as it was intended. We choose what offends us. Let's choose not to be offended, but to be informed.
Flash you are so correct here; what I said was not intended to be offensive, but information that may not be thought of when taking these particular parking areas.
Thank you for seeing what I was trying to do.
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:18 AM   #288
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Everyone please remember that when I posted what I did that I was only trying to make everyone aware of a problem that has an easy solution in at least one small part. Will it cure the problem NO, but avoiding parking in Semi Parking at truckstops does not add to the problem.
Now a history lesson
At one time way back when I first started driving in the mid 70's with my brother, then late 70's for the military, and in the 80's on my own, truckers back then did not have the restrictions on us as to where we parked, and in fact we was welcomed in many places just like campers are now. Then came deRegulation (long story here) which allowed the sudden increase in truck traffic, following came truck driving schools which flooded the market with drivers (another long story), some good, some that were trash or what we real truckdrivers refer to as steering wheel holders, which in turn led to trucks being restricted from many of these parking areas we once enjoyed, cities started passing laws to prevent trucks from parking in certain areas that they wanted for the public and tourists (mostly including campers) because of the complaints by the public and tourists much of which was campers. Businesses such as stores also started restricting trucks from parking even when the trucks had a load to deliver because there was a truck stop available. These restrictions forced trucks into rest areas, parking ramps, truck stops, because there was no other place to park.

So when you pull into that truck stop and some idiot tells you that you can park in the semi area, think about how many places you can park that trucks can not, think about the person out there just trying to make a living and support his family and is restricted where he can park, about the person because of that restriction is forced to move until he/she can find a place to stop because the space is taken by someone who could have parked somewhere else a few miles away that they are allowed to park there. Truckers don't get just a ticket either, When you have a CDL License, ANY TICKET you get puts points on your license, enought points you loose your license and your job, not to mention drives your vehicle insurance both semi & personal auto up for what ever period the ticket remains on your license. Otherwise most of us would gladly pay the parking ticket rest and go on with life.
Yes trucking has its problems and yes there are those few and I mean few which is less than 1% of the trucks on the road who make the choice to drive tired, and it is those same few who could not obey simple rules that changed things that stopped trucks from parking just anywhere.
Some in here say that when they park in a truck stop they are not responsible, this is not true. In the last year I drove there was an article in the truckers newspaper about a driver who pulled into a truck stop and could not park because of no spaces, (one set of parking spaces was taken by a few campers, if I remember it was 3), the driver tried to park on the ramp but was forced to leave by the law, left to go to another truck stop down the road and fell asleep and wrecked and killed someone on the way, in the trial for vehicular manslaughter it came out that the officer had went to the truck stop and checked the spaces and found the campers and had logged their information, the charge against the driver was reduced because the jury said that the driver made every resonable effort to comply with the law and was forced into doing what he did. The driver recieved a heavy fine with 90 days jail, lost his license, got suied by the family. In addition the jury found that the fault was of the Law, camper, truck stop, the truck stop got fined, law was changed to include campers in the restriction. In the lawsuit done by the family also included the City, County, Cops, truck stop, campers, and in the final outcome everyone had to pay this family in the settlement. What does this mean,, well under certain circumstances you could be held liable.
If you really think about it and read this thread you will find what has happend to trucking is beginning to happen to campers as well, how many times has someone said in here that stores have stopped campers from parking, cities passed laws, etc, because of someones actions, in a place that was not meant to be camped in but made allowences for and that is now slipping away because of bad decisions. I am no different than any of you in that when I travel in the camper I too look for ways to cut costs which means more money for attractions later, but I am not going to at the cost of anothers life by taking a place that is designed for and needed for a reason.

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Old 12-13-2009, 06:51 AM   #289
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a parking ticket. ??
Lets look at this parking ticket, you get one and it costs what $50.00??
Trucker gets one it costs minimum $150.00, points on his license, raise in the cost of vehicle insurance for even private vehicles for 3-5 years or however long it takes the points to drop off, once there is 12 points on a CDL you loose your license until the points come off to the point where you are below the 12 again, Some states impound your vehicle and hold you in jail until bond or you see the judge, now if this happens on a saturday you sit until monday, if you have a refer load it runs out of fuel goes bad you just bought a load, In some cases there is called a delivery agreement in which you have to deliver by a certain time and if you miss that time because you are in jail you pay big $$$.
So when you say just a parking ticket, that is what a regular person pays, it is totally different for truckers, drivers, companies, owner/operators.
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Old 12-13-2009, 11:52 AM   #290
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I am a fool

Thank you for pointing out the error of my ways. When I go back and read what was said, I am quite frankly embarrassed that I was offended. Clearly, I am, in fact, the fool you pointed out. I can only blame the culture in which I was raised (personal honor, words have meaning, ect- all that passé stuff) for my unreasonable response. After all what normal man, sensitive to the ways of the new century would possibly take offense to being called someone who advocated killing children in order to save a few dollars? Clearly, that comment was not intended to paint me personally as a potential murderer in a heavy handed attempt to stop any disagreement with the poster. No doubt, I got it all horribly wrong as only a fool will do. My apologies are extended to anyone who was offended by my lack of sensitivity in responding to this earlier post.

While I am being insensitive here are some other observations.
1.The parking lots in question are the property of the travel stop companies. These companies are privately owned. They extend parking opportunities to their customers as a matter of courtesy not out of legal or moral obligation. No class of driver (or drivers as a class of people for that matter) has a right to parking spaces on these properties. Further, those who take advantage of this courtesy do not have the right to decide independently of the property owners where they will park.
2.The story offered regarding the fatigued truck driver who wrecked is fantastic. Being insensitive, skeptical, and unreasonably fond of facts over anecdotal moral tales, I would like to see evidence of these events. I personally find it implausible. Provide evidence that this happened with the consequences you report, and I will happily publicly apologize.
3.The point that parking spots for semi trucks are in fact limited is well taken. It seems to me that point could be simply stated without recourse to calling those making other points names or relating stories of questionable fact.
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:07 PM   #291
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I am not a lawyer, but in court enough to know a camper in a private parking lot can not not in any way be help liable for the accident mentioned. I ask for proof as well.

This all points to the mighty dollar and a industry ripe with power and influence. Please tell me why I see so many empty super 8/red roof and holiday Inn express motels alongside the interstates empty. All have parking for commercial trucks. Why? I submit because the owners of these companies, many with thousands of trucks in their fleet will not pay for a decent nights sleep. I know some of these guys, some have just a couple of hundred trucks. They have 3 homes, 60 foot boats and the newest and biggest toys they can find.

The only thing THEY care about is how many times that drivers door is opening. That cost money, a good nights sleep is the last thing they worry about, forget a decent clean shower and private bathroom. The problem is within the industry, not some poor camper in a flying J.
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:32 PM   #292
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I have noticed in recent years almost all the trucks are sleepers. This saves money for the trucking companies. The company can track the truck via satellite and make sure the driver is driving to the maximum allowed. At the end of the maximum hours, then the trucker may have to drive some more to find a spot to park. I believe during the last administration the hours a trucker could drive were extended at the behest of the industry. This is bad for the driver and bad for everyone else who shares the road with these guys. Parking space for trucks appears to be quite limited.

That's really all that needed to be said.

I have never overnighted at a truck stop. They all seem to have several RV spaces near the gas islands. Sometimes there are cars, pickups and vans in them and I admit to being annoyed since there are usually plenty of spaces for them when I want to park in a RV space to eat in the restaurant. I can't imagine sleeping next to a diesel running all night, or inhaling the fumes. When we stop at a rest stop to eat lunch, sometimes we have a truck next to us, sometimes two (if we can't avoid it) and the noise does not make for a relaxing time. Truckers have to live with that all the time.

Truck driving used to have some romance associated with it, but I don't think it's the same now. It seems just like another bad job.

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Old 12-14-2009, 07:58 AM   #293
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While I am being insensitive here are some other observations.
1.The parking lots in question are the property of the travel stop companies. These companies are privately owned. They extend parking opportunities to their customers as a matter of courtesy not out of legal or moral obligation. No class of driver (or drivers as a class of people for that matter) has a right to parking spaces on these properties. Further, those who take advantage of this courtesy do not have the right to decide independently of the property owners where they will park.

Ans #1: This is very true, but truckstops was designed and given business license for offering this very service to trucks, hense the reason to called a "Truck Stop",, if they was meant to be other I believe their name would have been Camper Stop, Campground. This issue of Campers parking at truck stops has been a long hot debate in the trucking industry when laws was passed forcing trucks to park in Truck Stops and away from businesses and rest areas.

2.The story offered regarding the fatigued truck driver who wrecked is fantastic. Being insensitive, skeptical, and unreasonably fond of facts over anecdotal moral tales, I would like to see evidence of these events. I personally find it implausible. Provide evidence that this happened with the consequences you report, and I will happily publicly apologize.

Ans #2: I would love to have all the details to provide to you and others, this occured back in 1999,2000, and like I said was a news article in a paper. The only reason I remember it was because it was such a hot topic over what happend and the laws applied as well as the lawsuits that followed which someone with good internet research capabilites may find the actual details and the final out come. As far as plausable well I would say that it is not plausable for one to get 30 mil for getting burned by a cup of coffee from Micky Dees, but yet it happend, and I am sure if you go to sites such as snopes you would find many of these types of lawsuits.

3.The point that parking spots for semi trucks are in fact limited is well taken. It seems to me that point could be simply stated without recourse to calling those making other points names or relating stories of questionable fact.

Ans #3: I did not mean to call anyone names and incinuate anything about anyone in particular, I was only trying to bring an issue that is of importance to forfront of thought by pointing it out and giving examples of what could and has happend.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:25 AM   #294
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>>I am not a lawyer, but in court enough to know a camper in a private parking lot can not not in any way be help liable for the accident mentioned. I ask for proof as well.

Ans: Like I stated before this incident that I mentioned happend back in 1999, 2000, and was a news article story in a truckers Mag. I imagine that it could be found by someone with better internet research knowledge than me, of coarse being that long ago I am not even sure it can be found. But I can offer this I am sure that someone has been to a truck stop that has signs in the truck parking area saying semi trucks only. No campers, vehicles allowed, and I bet if you can find the right person to talk to at the truck stop they will tell that it may have been caused because corporate passed it down because of some lawsuit. If you think this is not plausable then I offer you the same point that it is not plausable for one to get money because they spilled coffee and burned themselves, but yet I seem to remember a woman who did that very lawsuit and got 30 mil. Plausable yes it is in today lawsuit happy society, I am sure you can check snopes or any of these search engines and find many of these un-plausable lawsuits.

>>This all points to the mighty dollar and a industry ripe with power and influence. Please tell me why I see so many empty super 8/red roof and holiday Inn express motels alongside the interstates empty. All have parking for commercial trucks. Why? I submit because the owners of these companies, many with thousands of trucks in their fleet will not pay for a decent nights sleep. I know some of these guys, some have just a couple of hundred trucks. They have 3 homes, 60 foot boats and the newest and biggest toys they can find.

Ans: You are totally correct in this, money makes the control. Believe it or not this has been an issue by drivers for years to do away with sleeper units and use motels but money and power put a stop to it, then you have cost, as a small business owner and most anyone will tell you that as such you try to find the most cost effective way to operate and much of this goes all the way back to deregulation. When deregulation occured it opened the door for the larger companies to drop shipping rates so low that small companies, owner operators, drivers, could not afford to pay for motels forcing us to stay in the trucks. Before deregulation companies used to put us in motels every 12 hours, then it became every other day, then once a week, then stopped. As rates dropped I even found myself from being in motels every other night to every 3 nights, to weekends only, to not being able to at all because of a choice of motel or supporting my family. Now as a driver/owner I never put myself in the position of causing an accident, I did however push myself to that limit though as many drivers do, but I do know my limits and knew when to stop, unfortunately some do not know their limits and/or let greed get the better of them.

>>The only thing THEY care about is how many times that drivers door is opening. That cost money, a good nights sleep is the last thing they worry about, forget a decent clean shower and private bathroom. The problem is within the industry, not some poor camper in a flying J.

Ans: very very true it is the problem of the industry, but like I said before why take a camper and add to a problem when there are other alternatives available that trucks do not have is the point I am trying to make.
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