Towing a Vintage Airstream with a Roadtrek

[clicknathan]

A few years ago I had a dream of living in an Airstream which I towed with a VW Bus. Research lead me to the realization that a VW Bus would never be able to handle such a load..,so my family of 3+dog ended up forgetting about the Airstream part of the equation and have happily been roaming around in this old Volkswagen.

However, we have expanded from 3 to 5, with number 6 (including grandma), on the way as of September. We've finally concluded that we need to upgrade. The decision is bittersweet, as if you've never lived on the road in a "hippie van" well, you may want to try it ASAP.

So anyway, our plan was to get a Vintage Airstream in relatively good condition for around $7000, and tow it with a Roadtrek. Apparently, Roadtreks are rated at 8100lbs and I believe I've seen Vintage AS at around 8000lbs. I know that's pushing it considering we'll have gear on board as well as water, but alas, such is my desire. Living in the Bus is so great because unlike an RV, we can easily venture into cities, up narrow winding roads and into national forests. A Roadtrek would offer that type of occasionally more cramped flexibility if it can handle the tow job.

So I'm just wondering if anyone might have any experience in this arena?

[xrvr]

Airstream Interstates are better than Roadtreks IMHO, jim

[dwightdi]

Roadtreks are cheaper, but do not use the Mercedes Expressvan chassis.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Airstream Interstates are better than Roadtreks IMHO, jim

Mmmm, yes, I have to say I agree with this , but I think both will take the tow you are wanting.

You realize you're asking about Roadtreks on an Airstream forum. We're a bit biased here.


Maggie

[Protagonist]

The Roadtrek Adventurous is built on the same Sprinter 3500 chassis as the Airstream Interstate, and will have the same rated towing capacity, 7500 pounds. That's the maximum towing capacity for any Sprinter, based on official data from Mercedes Benz in the Sprinter Owner's Manual.

Sprinters come in several flavors:
1 - Short-wheelbase 2500, towing capacity 5000 pounds;
2 - Long-wheelbase 2500, towing capacity 5000 pounds;
3 - Long-wheelbase extended 2500, towing capacity 5000 pounds;
4 - Long-wheelbase 3500, towing capacity 7500 pounds;
5 - Long-wheelbase extended 3500, towing capacity 5000 pounds.

I test-drove all but (3), mostly at Miller RV Sales in Baton Rouge; (1) was a new Roadtrek Agile; (2) was a used Roadtrek Adventurous from back when they used the 2500 chassis; (4) was a late-model Roadtrek Adventurous; (5) was a Winnebago Era. I also got product literature from all of them, and none gave a higher towing capacity than Mercedes lists for their base Sprinters.

The listed towing capacities are for a plain-Jane Sprinter, that hasn't been converted to a motorhome. Once you add custom coachwork to the interior, you lose net cargo capacity and net trailer weight because your empty weight goes up, but the GVWR and GCWR don't go up.

So, if you're lucky and don't add any weight to your Roadtrek Adventurous except one driver and full fuel, you might get the full 7500 pounds towing capacity, but you start loading more people and gear, and you're more likely to see somewhere less than 7000 pounds towing capacity.

Now, if you're talking about one of the Chevy-based Roadtreks, all this info is worthless; I have no clue what kind of towing capacity you'll get from a Chevy-based Roadtrek.

[clicknathan]

Yeah, I do realize this is an AS forum, but I'm looking to tow the Airstream portion of my idea first and foremost. If I discover that a Roadtrek can't do the job, I'll find a different type of van that can. I'd rather put my big money into the tow vehicle than the AS, as I have plenty of experience fixing up rvs and things that would be found in trailers (sewage/water/busted cabinets/fridges) than I do working on computerized modern engines. That said, using an AS b class for a toe vehicle is a bit out of budget.

Thanks for the input everyone!

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by clicknathan

Yeah, I do realize this is an AS forum, but I'm looking to tow the Airstream portion of my idea first and foremost. If I discover that a Roadtrek can't do the job, I'll find a different type of van that can. I'd rather put my big money into the tow vehicle than the AS, as I have plenty of experience fixing up rvs and things that would be found in trailers (sewage/water/busted cabinets/fridges) than I do working on computerized modern engines. That said, using an AS b class for a toe vehicle is a bit out of budget.

Thanks for the input everyone!

Aaah, unless you found one that was gently used.



Maggie

[overlander64]

If the tow van doesn't have to be new, there is always the possibility of the Airstream B190 on the Ford E350 Chassis. It was produced for around ten years so there are some very well-maintained uinits out there . . . and they had trailer towing capacity such that they could tow most any of the Vintage Airstream trailers (the rear door mounted spare tire might have to find a new home, however). My spouse and I have been considering the possibility of a B190 as the tow vehicle for our coaches, but haven't made a findal decision.

Kevin

[tvoneicken]

One thing to consider with a Roadtrek is that the ground clearance is very low. They put lots of stuff "down there" (incl. propane tank) and you mentioned "narrow winding roads and into national forests". After I looked at the ground clearance (or rather lack thereof) combined with the long wheelbase I quickly realized that this type of vehicle is for paved and graded roads only. If that's fine with you, then please ignore this message ;-)

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by tvoneicken

One thing to consider with a Roadtrek is that the ground clearance is very low. They put lots of stuff "down there" (incl. propane tank) and you mentioned "narrow winding roads and into national forests". After I looked at the ground clearance (or rather lack thereof) combined with the long wheelbase I quickly realized that this type of vehicle is for paved and graded roads only. If that's fine with you, then please ignore this message ;-)

Same is true for the Airstream Interstate. One reason it's not called an Airstream Backroads.

[clicknathan]

Thanks Protagonist & everyone else. Good points about the clearance, I'll definitely have to look into that more. Our Bus can go just about anywhere, and it's got a propane tank underneath, but it's a little 4 gallon and not a bit ol' whatever might be under an AS or Roadtrek.

Just want to truly say thank you to everyone who took time to give me your feedback!

PS. As an actual way of showing gratitude beyond just using the words, we're giving away a few free memberships to our family's online travel magazine if you're interested!

[xo1rider]

Originally Posted by tvoneicken

One thing to consider with a Roadtrek is that the ground clearance is very low. They put lots of stuff "down there" (incl. propane tank) and you mentioned "narrow winding roads and into national forests". After I looked at the ground clearance (or rather lack thereof) combined with the long wheelbase I quickly realized that this type of vehicle is for paved and graded roads only. If that's fine with you, then please ignore this message ;-)

I traded in my 2010 Roadtrek SS Agile (short wheelbase) for my Airstream last year. We loved the Roadtrek and actually preferred it over the Interstate but you are correct about ground clearance. I made the mistake of doing a few miles on dirt and gravel roads in both Montana and Alberta then spent two days in Saskatoon while the plumbing for the gray water tank was repaired.

As far as towing an Airstream with it, mine only had a 5,000 pound rating but even if it had the tow rating I could not imagine towing a travel trailer with it. Just seems like bringing a sack of McDonalds to a pizza parlor.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by xo1rider

Just seems like bringing a sack of McDonalds to a pizza parlor.

Honestly, Interstate owners are the only ones who would even care. To most people, Airstream means shiny aluminum trailers, and a Roadtrek is just another tow vehicle, though more comfortable than most pickups and SUVs. Since you're talking about pulling an Airstream trailer, you'll still be welcome around the campfire, no matter what the nameplate on your tow vehicle.

[slowmover]

With six people I can see how this is an appealing combination. Some of the qualities of a motorhome (which are only while underway) for travel comfort, but without the initial expense and enormous per-mile expense of moho + towed.

It may that a van which you, the buyer, work with an outfitter upon is best. There is no question of some of the cab & chassis model trucks, or bigger vans, being able to pull a little ol' Airstream.

Yet I agree with the above that ground clearance, tow capacity, etc, of some of the ready-made choices may not be sufficient.

How important is it to have plumbing facilities aboard the TV (the largest impediment) is the make-or-break choice;

and

How long is each day of travel, would be the second frame by which I'd consider the questions (as a van or crewcab p/u are fine for that).

All facilities, all the time is quite a lot to ask given their actual use (since the TT has everything already), and six people aren't going to be sleeping in a van on solo trips.

As the OP already has experience, then the questions of:

1] How long will it be owned?

2] How many miles will it travel in that time?

3] How many nights aboard?

have some background which should be applied to new vehicles. These largest costs, initial and ongoing, are too often done as a whim (not the problem for the OP here, I take it, but in general), thus dollars & cents make sense for looking at the overall picture.

The OP can try out the analysis here, asking for input, or just further delineate parameters.

A big van, fitted out the way I'd want (perhaps not changed all that much from stock, maybe a kitchen of some sort) might be relevant where tow capacity and some limited offroad is most important.

Alternately, full independence from shore power (air conditioning via built-in generator) may be more important.

Having all of this -- plus fully plumbed facilities -- takes us into an expensive territory (but that itself may not matter from the OP perspective; of getting away from ready-made vehicles).

This is a quite large range from which to make choices.

Full time travel with redundant systems is no small undertaking. That there are chassis capable of this is without question. How large a TV one wants is another. I would not expect ready-made to be the answer from the information offered thus far.

.

[Skater]

I have no experience with Roadtreks (other than touring one once), but I've seen people towing Airstreams with the B190s occasionally. It never made much sense to me, because when you're at your destination, you have an ungainly, slow, tall, inefficient vehicle for driving around town in (or worse, cities). The Roadtreks are better than the B190s in terms of height and probably fuel efficiency, so the equation isn't quite the same, but it's still something to consider if you like to explore at your destination.

Note Airstream is also making the Airstream Avenue B van on the Chevy 3500 chassis now. But that's much like a Roadtrek in terms of clearance, I expect.

[clicknathan]

It's definitely important to have some plumbing happening in the Roadtrek. To be a little clearer, when I talk about winding roads and heading into more escapist areas like national forests, they don't usually require 4 wheel drive and often are paved, but taking a trailer of any size wouldn't be recommended.

As for the plumbing in the Roadtrek/AS B-class/whatever we decide on, it would definitely be nice to have it, but we don't need to go all out and include a toilet or shower, though again, always nice to have. I have been looking into getting a conversion van and outfitting it, as well, but I spent so much time in our last venture with the VW Bus getting it up to speed, I'd love to just get something that's ready to go for this particular chapter of our travels.

As for some other questions which were asked:

How long is each day of travel, would be the second frame by which I'd consider the questions (as a van or crewcab p/u are fine for that).

This is completely variable. Somedays we'll drive 500 miles and other times we won't move for a month.

All facilities, all the time is quite a lot to ask given their actual use (since the TT has everything already), and six people aren't going to be sleeping in a van on solo trips.

No, we wouldn't all be sleeping in the van on solo trips, but being able to make coffee and wash our hands out in the wild is always a bonus. I know it's not "true camping", but we've done enough of that in our lives, I'm not as worried about it. We're living in the thing, so even if it's only for a few days at a time without the Airstream, it's still important to at least have a good setup with potable water. I could easily live without toilet/shower in the van, but a cooktop of some sort and water/sink will definitely be on our list. Even when we're hooked to the Airstream, in the van will be my wife and I and our youngest son, who will require regular feedings all night long well after his mama is willing to keep up nursing.

1] How long will it be owned?

Unfortunately I have no idea on this. We have no intentions of ending our mobile lifestyle, so indefinitely is about as close to an answer as I can give there. I'm not one to really purchase things and try and sell them off later, particularly if they work out really well for our lifestyle. At least five years.

2] How many miles will it travel in that time?

We do 19,000 miles / year on average.

3] How many nights aboard?

Basically every night of the year, though of course we do stay in hotels sometimes, so maybe we could say 300 nights / year.

I'm also not that concerned about being able to drive a Roadtrek, or something similar, around in cities. Aside from having plenty of experience driving big vans in small city streets, we've become quite accustomed to bicycling everywhere, or just finding a lot to park in and walking around cities all day long.

Though that is already making me sad to be leaving behind the VW Bus, you can park that thing anywhere there's even half a spot, really...

[mutcth]

A few things:

Andy Thomson, one of the owners of CanAm RV Centre in Ontario, is known as a towing expert. In this article he talks about towing his big Airstream with a Pleasure-Way Sprinter.
If you're looking at Roadtrek, you should also look at Pleasure-Way, but you probably knew that already.

Another option is to have a tow rig custom-built for you by someone like Sportsmobile. They can put in a pop-top just like your VW vans. One of their Nissan-based vans might also provide more towing grunt and ground clearance than the Sprinter, or they can build a gnarly 4x4 rig. A Sportsmobile, built with some spending restraint, might wind up to give you just what you want for less money than a full-blown Roadtrek moho.

Tom

[Skater]

Originally Posted by clicknathan

I'm also not that concerned about being able to drive a Roadtrek, or something similar, around in cities. Aside from having plenty of experience driving big vans in small city streets, we've become quite accustomed to bicycling everywhere, or just finding a lot to park in and walking around cities all day long.

Fair enough. I can think of a couple parking decks that wouldn't fit my pickup, let alone a Roadtrek, but there are usually other options nearby, so it's not THAT big of a deal.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by Skater

I have no experience with Roadtreks (other than touring one once), but I've seen people towing Airstreams with the B190s occasionally. It never made much sense to me, because when you're at your destination, you have an ungainly, slow, tall, inefficient vehicle for driving around town in (or worse, cities). The Roadtreks are better than the B190s in terms of height and probably fuel efficiency, so the equation isn't quite the same, but it's still something to consider if you like to explore at your destination.

Note Airstream is also making the Airstream Avenue B van on the Chevy 3500 chassis now. But that's much like a Roadtrek in terms of clearance, I expect.

I disagree.

What you have with a class B is a bathroom, frig and galley kitchen that all you have to do is step from your seat to the back to access. This is extremely convenient while sightseeing and fuel economy is great. You can also access a change of clothing or nap a child in your parking space.

We do not find our Interstate ungainly, slow, tall or inefficient for driving around town or in cities. The only city limitation is parking garages, which we have to avoid because of height limitations. We've never had a problem finding other parking.

Doug has maneuvered us through many big cities without a scratch. There are a great many Sprinter vans out there doing the same thing for FedEx, UPS, etc.

It depends on what you want. If one had the funds, towing a trailer with a class B would be perfect for families, from our experience.


Maggie

[slowmover]

Indefinite length of ownership with 20k annually plus 300-nights/year speak loudly for custom work. The need for "plumbing" as defined, even more so. Nice job, clicknathan, on why a trailer is a good idea (5-6 persons) as a 1T van as the TV appears the best choice.

I would recommend looking at a built-in 5500W generator as a worthwhile addition. The ability to keep the trailer air-conditioned should be no small consideration. Whether the TV is gasoline or diesel it is best placed in the TV for weight/space considerations.

The order of importance for any "RV" (we stretch that term all the time) is:

1] Mobility
2] Water
3] Propane

all the rest is second to this order. The TV, being fitted with limited water & propane capabilities, has to be of a certain size for persons and towing. A generator is thus complementary to the rig as a whole.

Whom to outfit the TV is the dilemma, now. The links to outfitters, above, is a good start. Used versions of those plus Quigley Motor Company, Inc. > Home is where I would start my note-taking and list-making.

If one projects from the known:

20k miles annually
300-nights/year aboard

Then the cost of the TV & TT can be put in perspective over 1500-nights:

Every night of use the rig costs $XX

as the baseline for all other expenditures.

One van or another isn't so expensive when seen as a change in percentage of a single night of use.

Expect that the cost of such a van is over $1.50/mile on an annual basis where five years of ownership is the goal; expenses related wholly to the purchase and operation of such (including depreciation) inclusive to the TV should be made.

$85/day for the TV would be my starting point (the low one) in order to relate it to the TT and all other expenses where per night of use is the decision making number. Fuel expense is less than half of that number, roughly.

Have you thought of how the TT would be used (lay-out or floorplan) to set what size you want? A van of this sort can pull literally any Airstream ever made so whether a 25' or up to a 34' is not a relevant concern any longer. Only where you may wish to park the thing.

A full-size van is of a certain length, and with a VPP WDH (virtual pivot point, weight-distributing hitch) adding another foot to the hitched length, the placement of the pivot point between TV & TT can be determined, as can the hitch ball center to TT axle center to determine the size of the turning circle when married to manufacturer numbers about the wheel cut. Etc.

Much can be done on paper, in other words, to marry TT length to relative space needed for turns, etc.

The more closely this all is done as a business proposition the easier are all other comparisons to be made. Where compromises can be done based on experience.

I would like to suggest that there is stuff here for a great thread as the OP has depth of experience to work from. Others -- now and in the future - would benefit from how to move folks around and keep them sheltered. Instead of asking us, IOW, we'd be asking you.

I hope we get to see some of the decision-making laid out in various posts; why some choices ranked more highly than others.

.