Testing your rig - full lockup? Sway?

[Acheron2010]

Interesting thread on this section called "Accident." I was looking for specific information on sway and braking, and it occured to me I have not tested either on my trailer and tow vehicle setup.
When I purchased my first motorcycle, I attended a very comprehensive course put on by the California Highway Patrol in San Diego. They demonstrated that all bikes behave differently when braked, and taught us to "learn" our bikes characteristics by performing brake tests - 10 MPH, hit the front brake only, 10 MPH hit the rear brake only, 10 MPH do a full lockup with both brakes.
I learned that my direct drive Yamaha rear end would come left due to the weight of the drive axle on that side. My Harley would fishtail left and right.

But I have never done this with my $$$$ travel trailer. yes, I'm afraid. But certainly, someone has done this on purpose or by accident. Is there reasonable expected behavior, or are all going to behave different due to different trailers, tow vehicles, and hitches?

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Acheron2010

. . .
. . . or, or are all going to behave different due to different trailers, tow vehicles, and hitches?

Probably yes IMO.

One noted factor in the sway rollover threads is extra weight at the rear, whether a hitch, bicycles, cargo carrier and so forth.

Even in our 20’ if the rear water tank is full, and the rest of the trailer is loaded more lightly than normal, I have tested the handling by turning the wheel quickly, with one hand on the brake controller.

The first hints of sway are obvious!

Never took this test to the point of getting out of control, but it was a valuable lesson IMO.

Happy trails,

Peter

PS — Thanks for starting this thread.

[ROBERT CROSS]

A similar learn here in WNY...how your vehicle reacts in Winter. DW got a new car...first storm we went to a snow/ice covered lot and slipped and slid, gassed and braked. Important to know how your vehicle will react in an emergency. 👍
Every spring we go thru the TV & AS in much the same way, checking various gain settings, max AS brake application on a loose surface, stopping on dry pavement with AS brakes only.

Bob
🇺🇸

[crispyboy]

If you drive I-75 or any other interstate through an urban area you will soon get your chance to test out your panic stop skills and the rig braking ability. Just make sure the trailer brakes are adjusted properly and the brake controller is adjusted to lead the tow vehicle braking a little bit. Keep a minimum of 4 seconds in front of you and scan ahead 10 to 15 seconds to anticipate issues.
It never fails that now matter how much room I leave in front of me someone will cut me off or pull out in from of me.....
Also be aware of the cars/trucks coming up from behind that wait to the last minute to slow down or nearly clip the left quarter panel of the trailer - you need good mirrors and must check them often. Got to be alert to what is going on 360 degrees around your rig!
I have never been lucky enough to experience "true sway" but I have noticed a difference in trailer behavior from a conventional WD hitch (popular brand) to a pivot point projection hitch. With a conventional WD hitch the trailer was "twitchy" (fast reacting to the slightest change in the steering direction or wind push) whereas the with a ppp hitch the trailer just casually follows the tow vehicle track without the abruptness.

[AIRTRVL]

Several years ago I tested my Hensley hitch by accident. I was pulling a 27’ SOB trailer on a 2 lane road at about 60mph. I had to make an extremely quick maneuver into the opposite lane of travel to avoid a deer that jump into my lane and then a quick maneuver back into my lane. My truck handled as if the trailer wasn’t there and all the trailer did was follow the truck. No sway at all. I have been towing with my Hensley for 19 years and I will never tow with any other brand.

[hoagy_007]

I think the 'Accident' post got a lot of people thinking about their setup, sway control and overall safety. There is a lot of information also shared in the Airstream Facebook group Airstream Addicts.

With that said, I'm new to towing. Just purchased our 30' FC Bunk this past April. While getting ready for the big purchase safety was on my mind. We bought a 2018 GMC 3500HD diesel which provides plenty of power. For the itch we went with the PPP hitch which after a lot of research looked like it would work for us and has!. We've taken 3 trips over I-90 (Cascades) in WA state and those who have made that trip know that you get a little bit of everything. You get steep grades both up and down. Semi's passing at all rates of speed and traffic. I pay attention to the following:

- Don't overload the rear of the Airstream at all!
- Make sure anything in the TT is over the axels or stowed forward towards the TT.
- Put what we can in the TV (the 3500HD can handle it).
- Pay attention to tongue weight and TT level with TV.
- Safety inspection of hitch set up every time and have my wife do a quality check.

We bought a Leer cap and Deck bed system for the GMC about 2 months after purchasing the AS and I had to adjust the PPP hitch bringing the bolt up one hole to get a level set up. Before doing that I had noticed that the ride just didn't feel right, once I adjusted it we seemed to be good and had none of those 'weird' towing feelings on the road. The ones where something just doesn't feel right, 'was that a sway?' 'was it doing the dolphin up and down?'.

The only thing I think I still don't have dialed in is the gain on the brake controller. I had it set at 3.5 which the AS dealer set it up at. We had tested it by setting the gain, putting the TV in drive, don't touch the TV brakes and let it go while manually squeezing the brake controller and see how the TT stops. After reading the accident an using our great search function I'm thinking I may have the gain set to low.

The AS is about 8400 lbs. with load and TV about 12,300 with the new cap, Deck bed and stuff in the bed. Need to bring to a CAT to get it correct but that is close. Anyone else have a similar set up and if so what do you have your gain set at?

Thanks,
Hoagy

[rmkrum]

Similar experiences to 'AIRTRVL' with our rig.

With the ProPride (Jim Hensley design) evasive maneuvers seem effortless and well-controlled. The important thing is to have the WD properly set up so the TV front wheels are properly 'planted' and controlling the rig. I set up so the front axle has enough weight on it to give stable steering and a front end ride without porpoising with the load in the AS. It's very obvious on our rig when the front end is too light..DW gets seasick!

The other vital setting is to get the brake controller set, as others have stated, so the trailer brakes lead the TV brakes by enough to keep tension on the hitch while stopping. Our Tekonsha Prodigy P2 has adjustments for both gain (the number dial) and the boost, which gives a stronger initial application of the trailer brakes when you get on the TV brake pedal. If it is set up for your rig and load, the trailer does brake hard enough and early enough to take the load off the TV brakes. Since the P2 uses accelerometers to adjust braking force, it also seems to compensate for downhill travel, and proportions braking a bit harder on downgrades. Once you hit the sweet spot on the controller, while adjusting on warmed trailer brakes, it is quite comfortable to drive with.

[PKI]

The reaction of a motorcycle seems to vary with design. I've heard similar reports from other riders. My results clearly varied with rider experience.

Would expect a TV & TT response to vary with equipment condition, load balance, and road conditions ..... so as these change over time, one test is not enough and even with testing, attentive driving skills in use 100% of the time is mandatory.

A fellow I met at work was convinced that his racing made his bike riding on the street safer. My guess is that exploring the limits of a vehicle's performance is a very good thing. However, there was also a picture that another fellow had on his desk with a leg in the air and the bike crossed up just before a crash. My suspicion is that conservative use is a faster learning curve and safer for most. Many AS owners are no longer in their best learning years. Back off and reduce your risk all the time. Pat

[TouringDan]

Just want to join this important thread so I can learn.

Dan

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by AIRTRVL

Several years ago I tested my Hensley hitch by accident. I was pulling a 27’ SOB trailer on a 2 lane road at about 60mph. I had to make an extremely quick maneuver into the opposite lane of travel to avoid a deer that jump into my lane and then a quick maneuver back into my lane. My truck handled as if the trailer wasn’t there and all the trailer did was follow the truck. No sway at all. I have been towing with my Hensley for 19 years and I will never tow with any other brand.

I had a real life unintended emergency avoidance and lane change with my Blue Ox last year, worked like a charm. Just like it was designed.
Pulling a 30' Classic with F-250 Diesel I had the cruise control set at 72 on I 24 EB when this occured.

[hoagy_007]

I was looking into the Tekonsha Prodigy P2 which was posted in this thread by rmkrum.

Along with weight distribution and hitch the brake controller is a key piece to have. As in the case of one of the accidents in the other thread where the new owner didn't know the importance of the BC.

I see that the Tekonsha Prodigy P2 gives the options to set up different road condition profiles, but what else would it add over my 2018 GMC 3500HD factory brake controller?

Thanks,
Hoagy

[rmkrum]

It Depends...(spoken like a true engineer/consultant)

Does the built-in controller allow adjustments to the braking profile as well as braking power? Does it use accelerometer technology, or some other method to control brake power levels to the trailer?

This is what I'm referring to:

The P2 allows 4 braking profiles that adjust the 'aggressiveness' of the onset of braking when you get on the brakes and the amount of reaction to deceleration. It 'jumps' to a higher percentage of max braking (as set by the 'power' setting knob) depending on the profile. It goes to either 0% (p0), 14% (p1) or 28% (p2 or p3) of full braking power immediately on brake application, then proportionally increases brake voltage with deceleration. The higher the boost setting, the more it increases braking with deceleration as well. This basically 'tunes' the accelerometers in the P2 to compensate for the mass of the trailer. IIRC, we usually run in "p1" setting and initially adjust power knob to slide at 25 MPH on dirt or gravel. Once brakes warm, I fiddle power to give smooth braking when tested on flat highway at about 55 MPH. And yes, I'm talking a smooth, hard application of brakes from 55 MPH for no other reason than a 'brake check'. Wife hates it, but that's the brake check I do before I NEED max braking...

I'm not familiar with built-in controllers. Our next tow vehicle will most likely be a Toyota Tundra. It supposedly has a built-in controller, but I'm keeping the P2 just in case I don't like the 'feel' of the built-in system.

There are some rumblings that the Toyota built-in ones use timing instead of accelerometers to proportion braking. That, IMHO, is both 'old fashioned' and not nearly as effective as an accelerometer based system. Basically dumb instead of smart.

I do know, properly set up, the P2 will haul our rig to an emergency stop very quickly in downtown Phoenix traffic--the one place I have needed flat out tire scorching emergency braking in every trip through that blessed town...and their legions of "great" drivers...

[J. Morgan]

My experience is simply this. My trailer WILL NOT sway under any circumstance with my Hensley, in fact it’s a joy to drive.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

My experience is simply this. My trailer WILL NOT sway under any circumstance with my Hensley, in fact it’s a joy to drive.

Oh, absolutely correct as well with a ProPride--same basic design from the same dude...

I love my setup, but there are a few around here that consider it 'overkill'. So be it--I'm not changing to something cheaper but worse.

Besides, I'm the head of the 'Overkill Engineering Department', and I have a reputation to uphold...

I've never had a sway problem under any circumstance either--just drivers doing dumb things in downtown Phoenix, Arizona. SO I avoid that area to keep my blood pressure normal.

[tvketchum]

We use a Hensley on our F150 30' Classic combo, and a Ford integrated brake controller. The Hensley gives the combo the stability needed. The Ford brake controller works very well, but I can't vouch for adjusting for speed or downhills. I do test twice every trip. First, hold the controller on full, while trying to move the truck. Then, when rolling 10 mph, slam trailer brakes only to full. Combo stops nearly instantly on pavement, and trailer locks up on gravel. It is easy, when actuating trailer brakes via the controller, to hit the - button for gain, without realizing it. All in all, over 60k miles towing and so far, no crashes, no sway, no close calls.

[Countryboy59]

I haven’t panic stopped since I was 17. Most panic stops and swerves I’ve seen are from improper following distance or swerving for an animal. Still glad I got the Hensley and the F350 to tow with.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

It's interesting how obsessed we get with this or that being "essential" to towing at anything over 5 mph with a 20' Airstream.

We were out and about today. Tennessee seems to have a "liberal" attitude towards speed limits. We're chugging along at 75 (with nothing in tow). Past goes a 30' SOB behind a pretty normal truck. Hookup is a Blue Ox. He pulls away doing maybe 80 to 85. We catch up to him a couple times as traffic slows. Up hill / down hill / past trucks / this and that .... down the road he goes. Not a brand new looking rig. I'd bet he's been doing this for at least a couple years .... (and lived).

Bob

[J. Morgan]

A Hensley designed hitch is not essential, it’s just that mine has never even come close to swaying, even when I’ve taken too much load off my tow vehicle rear axle. It’s simply an awesome tow.

[cwf]

I test.. I haven't had my wife try because she said "no".. =)

[MissingLink5]

I just recently had a new Prodigy PS Electronic Trailer Brake Control put on my 2014 Toyota Tundra. My old brake controller (another name) quit working in the Washington mountains. The instructions reads:
2. With engine running hold manual full left and set power knob to indicate 6.0 (that is the highest brake setting).
3. Drive tow vehicle and trailer on a dry level paved surface at 25 mph and fully apply manual knob
4. If the trailer wheels lockup, slightly reduce power by adjusting the power knob. If wheels turn freely, increase power to a point just before wheels lock up.

I have done this, and as rmkrum says above, it works great when you get it adjusted right. Don't pull your trailer without a reliable brake controller!