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Old 10-01-2015, 11:06 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by tyggeln View Post
Your mileage may vary of course but the EV is meeting many people's needs, and it could also for Airstreams. Gotta keep an open mind. Now if you want to create a S-storm, start talking about Thorium fuled nuclear plants, a potential holy grail for our future...
My Tesla Model S more than meets my driving needs. As my screen name suggests, I have a career that requires much driving at times. On my longest days, I can hit 120 miles of local driving between appointments. The Model S hits that sweet spot where you don't need to worry about charging unless you plan to exceed 250 miles in a stretch. I rarely do that, and the one or two times per year that I do, I have the Supercharger network that gives me 150 miles of range in only 20 minutes.

OH and I forgot to mention... unlimited usage of the Supercharger network is INCLUDED for the life of the vehicle with the purchase of every Model S and Model X. Depending on how much you travel, that could add up to quite a bit of savings. I know a Model S owner who drives 3,000-4,000 miles monthly and saves over $5,000/year on gasoline costs versus electricity. Amortized over a 5-7 year ownership period, that adds up to $25,000-$35,000 in savings versus an ICE vehicle. Once you factor that into the total cost of ownership over time, along with the added costs of oil changes and other maintenance for ICE vehicles, the ICE vehicle ends up being far more expensive in the end.

Model S price: $80,000
Tax credit: -$7,500
Effective price: $72,500
TCO Savings over 7 years: -$35,000
Net Effective Price: $37,500

The above calculation is pretty general but it takes into account all of the big expenses and savings except for sales tax, which varies by state. It also gives advantage to ICE vehicle because I don't add in any oil change or maintenance costs for either car. There is almost zero maintenance on an EV.

For someone who drives a lot of miles, as in the above scenario, an $80,000 Model S costs the same as a $35,000-$40,000 ICE vehicle over a 7 year ownership period.
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:13 AM   #44
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How does the Tesla heat the cabin interior? Does it use and electric heat pump? Always wondered how pure electric cars heat the cabin.

On my Prius the engine stays on longer to keep the coolant hot enough to provide heat in winter and an electric AC compressor to cool during summer.

Kelvin
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:20 AM   #45
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Sounds like an exhaust pipe dream.
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:21 AM   #46
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Did you know that the Chevy Volt lost more than $50,000.00 per unit sold at first and is most likely still losing money. Think of it as buying a $96,000.00 car for $46,000.00; What a bargain.
I drive a Volt and haven't put gas in it for months.

With the savings in gas, my lease payment is the same as the 2013 Accord I sold to get the Volt.

Your comment is true for EVERY car when it is first released. R&D, tooling, etc., cost money before the first car hits the road.
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:34 AM   #47
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I drive a Volt and haven't put gas in it for months.

Your comment is true for EVERY car when it is first released. R&D, tooling, etc., cost money before the first car hits the road.
YUP! And here's what most people who contrive those numbers don't account for, either intentionally or unintentionally.

Yes, when a vehicle is new, especially something as technologically new as the Volt was when those numbers started appearing, ALL the R&D and advanced components ($$$$) costs are not spread over any volume. The cost de-frayment starts decreasing with the second produced and continues to decline.

BUT, here's what no one considers. The development of many of the components in the Volt are now used in many other vehicle lines, which have accrued none of the development costs....because the component was already developed.

Just a few of those are:

1) LiON battery development and configuration/charge routine software and hardware used in SPARK EV, ELR, several other hybrid, mild hybrid, and start/stop technology vehicles like Malibu, LaCross, etc.

2) Electric power steering used in almost everything now in passenger cars and LD trucks,SUVs, Crossovers.

3) Many of the electronics and human interface components are in virtually everything else.

4) Electric A/C compressors and related software/hardware is beginning to spread to other hybrid/mild hybrid/start-stop vehicles.

etc....etc....

Beware of stats, unless you understand what's included and NOT included.
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:47 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
Many states won't allow Tesla to sell their products. Tesla's business model disturbs the status quo. So much for free enterprise.

Missouri auto-dealers lobby sneaks anti-Tesla provision in bill at last minute : TreeHugger

Kelvin
Some states force auto manufacturers to sell their cars through independent "franchise" dealerships, citing consumer protection as the reason. Tesla can have galleries (not stores) and service centers in those states, and prospective customers can still order the vehicle online and have it delivered. Tesla also holds test drive events all over the country where you can grab a car and take it for a spin. Tesla even offers overnight or weekend test drives where you can keep the car for a few days to see if it fits with your lifestyle.

There is much opposition to Tesla selling direct and the opposition is coming from dealer associations and their government lobby. When was the last time anyone here had a good experience at a dealership? The dealerships fear that if Tesla is allowed to sell direct, then Toyota and the rest will do the same, cutting the dealers out of the process. The reason Tesla does not sell through dealerships is because dealerships have zero incentive to sell an EV. Dealerships make a lot of their money on after-sale service, which EVs need very little of. Selling an EV also requires a lot of knowledge about the advantages to EVs, figuring total cost of ownership, tax credits, etc. It's a more complicated scenario to sell someone on an EV. Sales people would naturally favor selling their ICE offerings over the EVs, hurting sales.
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:51 AM   #49
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Boy this really goes along way in getting rid of the snooty rich people stigma of owning an airstream. anyone who saw this and wanted an airstream and thought they were for rich people only will really think so now. Rich can only afford Tesla and it is pulling an airstream so must be only rich can afford an airstream.
I asked everyone I know, as well as new clients, what they think when they see my Tesla. I've had plenty of people ask me about the car, want to look inside, sit inside, etc. Nine out of ten people that I asked said it projects an image of success. Nobody said they felt that I was "rich" or "snooty". Personally, I don't see the world through that type of lens because doing so would require me to judge others in a negative way for being successful and enjoying the fruits of their success.
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:00 PM   #50
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As far as EV saving energy and the environment , fossil fuels, global warming and the whole nine yards SHOW me the proof of actual saving of fuels after the use of the fossil fuels for production of : batteries first. Fossil fuels had to be used to make the material for the battery case, used in the production of the LI ION core, used in the transportation of the parts to get to the factory for assembly. Fossil fuels were used in the production of the body parts, the window glass, the plastic used in the car anywhere be it in the interior, engine compartment, dash or wherever, then the transportation of the parts. Used in the production of the tires. The list is endless in the fossil fuels used to produce this car, probably as much or more than production of a gasoline burning vehicle. Then fossil fuels are used to transport the finished vehicle to the dealers.Fossil fuels are used to sell the car: everything from the energy used to make the electricity so the lights can be on at the dealership to the pens and paper used to write up the sale. So unless someone can SHOW me cold hard facts for how much of a difference an EV really saves my personal opinion is that they are not much more than a feel good for the tree hugging global warming crowd.
The information is out there if you want to find it. I think, as someone desiring that information, you might wish to seek it out. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone, just to share my ownership experience. I've done the research and I'm satisfied that driving an EV is the cleanest option we have today. In fact, the electricity used in creating one gallon of gasoline and transporting it to your local gas station is enough to drive an EV 20 miles. Yeppers... an EV can drive 20 miles on just the amount of electricity used to extract, refine, and transport just one gallon of gasoline.

The 6 kWh electricity to refine gasoline would drive an electric car the same distance as a gasser? | The Long Tail Pipe
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:01 PM   #51
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How does the Tesla heat the cabin interior? Does it use and electric heat pump? Always wondered how pure electric cars heat the cabin.

On my Prius the engine stays on longer to keep the coolant hot enough to provide heat in winter and an electric AC compressor to cool during summer.

Kelvin
Model S uses old fashioned resistive heating for the HVAC.
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:04 PM   #52
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Craig CA, don't forget to put stabil in your gas tank!!

The volt and the tesla 3 are on my scope to replace my 2008 prius...

People think that the environnement protection is something free... one day or the other we will have to pay for the cleanup.
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:08 PM   #53
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I missed the unveiling so I had to look it up. Here's a screengrab for anyone who missed it. While burning oil isn't going away completely anytime soon, electric cars are truly the future of driving and that gigafactory can't come online soon enough.



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Old 10-01-2015, 12:13 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by AmpedRealtor View Post
My Tesla Model S more than meets my driving needs. As my screen name suggests, I have a career that requires much driving at times. On my longest days, I can hit 120 miles of local driving between appointments. The Model S hits that sweet spot where you don't need to worry about charging unless you plan to exceed 250 miles in a stretch. I rarely do that, and the one or two times per year that I do, I have the Supercharger network that gives me 150 miles of range in only 20 minutes.

OH and I forgot to mention... unlimited usage of the Supercharger network is INCLUDED for the life of the vehicle with the purchase of every Model S and Model X. Depending on how much you travel, that could add up to quite a bit of savings. I know a Model S owner who drives 3,000-4,000 miles monthly and saves over $5,000/year on gasoline costs versus electricity. Amortized over a 5-7 year ownership period, that adds up to $25,000-$35,000 in savings versus an ICE vehicle. Once you factor that into the total cost of ownership over time, along with the added costs of oil changes and other maintenance for ICE vehicles, the ICE vehicle ends up being far more expensive in the end.

Model S price: $80,000
Tax credit: -$7,500
Effective price: $72,500
TCO Savings over 7 years: -$35,000
Net Effective Price: $37,500

The above calculation is pretty general but it takes into account all of the big expenses and savings except for sales tax, which varies by state. It also gives advantage to ICE vehicle because I don't add in any oil change or maintenance costs for either car. There is almost zero maintenance on an EV.

For someone who drives a lot of miles, as in the above scenario, an $80,000 Model S costs the same as a $35,000-$40,000 ICE vehicle over a 7 year ownership period.

I'm not trying to argue against your point or anything (I actually like Tesla's), but I drive about the same amount as your friend does every year and I only pay about $2500 in fuel cost. Saving $5000 in gas would mean they were switching from a real gas hog. Also, in your 7 year example your friend would drive well over 300,000 miles. It may be too early to tell how much it will cost to maintain the batteries and car itself over that many miles, especially if he is supercharging that often.
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:23 PM   #55
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Buck- I drive around with about $5 of gas in the tank so I'm not hauling around all that weight. I will also force the car to use the engine if I'm jumping on the freeway for a few miles to cycle the engine. There is also engine management software that will cycle the engine when it reached a specific amount of time without running. That only happened once.
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:26 PM   #56
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What's the cost to insure a Tesla? Similar to conventional $70k cars?

Kelvin
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