States closing highway rest stops to save money

[Gene]

Not only are rest stops disappearing, but so are public campgrounds. In western Colorado the Forest Service started closing campgrounds a year or two ago, or in few places turning them over to private contractors. Whenever public land is turned over to private contractors, fees go up. Maybe they'll start charging for rest stops too. As state parks are closed, they will probably turn some over to private contractors too. By having Resort America do the reservations, they are partly there. $8 to make a reservation does not go down well. Some states have tried to charge tolls on interstates. Fees for national parks have increased considerably in recent years and visits to them have dropped ever since. The destination parks, like Yellowstone, still get plenty of visitors, but the smaller ones get less.

As it gets more and more expensive to travel, fewer will. This means that small businesses along the highways and at destinations will have a smaller and smaller share of travel money and they will close too. Small towns will feel an effect of this also.

Countries that have an efficient and low cost transportation system thrive. Letting the US passenger railroad system and the intercity trolley lines disappear was a serious policy (or lack of policy) mistake. The interstate system was necessary to replace it. Do you remember what it was like to travel cross country on two lane highways?—stuck behind 18 wheelers (and now RV's) for miles and miles, trying to pass on occasion. If it gets difficult to travel on interstates, all sorts of costs increase along with that. If you let the interstate system further decline with nothing to replace it, what then? Do you think this country is going to spend hundreds of billions on a good rail network? Do you think the fares would be low enough for everyone to use it?

At one time it was considered good for society to have parks that were taxpayer supported, not fee supported. Providing recreational opportunities for everyone was a benefit to all. Parks have not kept up with population growth and are more crowded as opportunity for recreation decreases.

During the last generation, policy has changed. Fees are charged for all sorts of things that never were before. Roads are deteriorating. Parks and rest stops are closing. Funds are grudgingly provided for rail service, but never enough, a recipe for failure. The population of the US has more than doubled in my lifetime, but in the meantime infrastructure has not kept pace. We are falling further and further behind. We may have alfready fallen far enough behind, we cannot recover. We may in future years look back at the mid 20th Century as the Golden Age of America, and then long decline began—or has begun.

Gene

[ncbambi]

Every rest stop that I have stopped at has had truckers who were taking their required rest, what will the truckers do now? Will they now be on the road, tired and pissed off because they can't find a rest stop that is open. There are enough trucks on the road now as it is, now they will be tired and pulling over where ever they can find space, making an overall dangerous situation for everyone.

We all use the rest stops for the same reasons that the truckers do. It is a shame that the states are in the situation they are in (most of them self imposed situations). Maybe some of that shovel-ready money the government seems to have, could be spent on the american public for a change. If we don't complain, it will get worse. Maybe we as a forum could figure out a way to voice our concern to our respective states.

[slowmover]

We may in future years look back at the mid 20th Century as the Golden Age of America, and then long decline began—or has begun.

This is true on every subject of politics and the economy. And obvious for over twenty years.

Fuel tax revenue has been flat since 1993. Obviously, the need to raise that tax is paramount. Cars, trucks, buses, etc need to pay their own way as it reduces hidden subsidies. (We would, in fact, be best off to have transportation costs be transparent, to see what costs what . . . somewhat different than direct taxation). I'm more than a little tired of anti-tax screeds which are masques for private greed.

A government that cuts services for the majority to benefit a favored few has not long to justify it's legitimacy.

Public rest areas are cheap, dirt cheap as are the entire system of state and national parks and the attendant services to the traveler. The benefit cannot be overstated for a population that must constantly move (by generation) to ensure opportunity for their families.

What elected representative stands for Americans?

[Dismayed]

Ironic because many rest stops were built by government programs during the Great Depression.

[47WeeWind]

Overseas caravans will soon become unnecessary as the U.S.A. continues to devolve into a genuine third-world country; we are well on our way today. In 20 years, it may be more challenging to caravan across the U.S.A. than from Capetown to Cairo in the good old days. On the positive side, think of the Adventure!

[Mexray]

Isn't this always the way for our Fed, State and Local govt's to get the public's 'attention' as tax revenues decline, and they can't fund all their pet 'goodies' and demonstrate their need to spend more of OUR money!

They almost always cut back on these kinds of 'services' that they know will arouse public outrage; closing parks, campgrounds, boat ramps, road maintenance and improvements, rest stops, etc....which for the most part almost always pay their own way (and then some) through their 'use' fees!

And then we hear the same old cries form the politicians..."If you'll just vote for more increases in taxes, and fees, we could restore these services..."

BULL Bleep! No matter how much money we send our governments, they find a way to spend far more...they vote themselves annual increases in wages, pensions, health plans, etc...and then when the economy has a 'hiccup', and tax revenues are down, they still want to hit us for MORE...enough, I say!

[Lothlorian]

It would be nice if some of the big truck stops could put in an area just for RV's. Something nice with grass picnic tabels and tree. Set it to the side away from all the trucks and cars. A place where you could pay a small fee and hook up to electricity for a short period of time. I don't don't know if some do because I always take the same route when I go camping. Free for 2 hours, x amount up to 4 hours and x amount for up to 8 hours max. They could have a equipment at each site where you could slide your card to pay for 8 hours of rest. Just food for thought.

I like to walk my dogs and know I could just gas up and leave. I am terrible driver about staying awake. I always pull over to rest stops and take power naps. Something about the lines in the road put me to sleep.


Brian

[ncbambi]

Took the hubby to the airport for an early flight in Asheville NC at 4:00AM and passed both the east/west rest areas on I-26 and there were at least 30 big rigs and a handful of RVs. Also passed other 18-wheelers parked anywhere they could pull off the freeway, because the rest area was full!

Maybe we should start parking in the empty city/county parking lots at night!

[AIR-Quarius]

Well we see the increase in accidents when truckers can't pull over and sleep, and that includes us too I suppose.

[SARGE/AF]

This may really piss off everyone! Sorry dont mean too.
You know it is kinda funny when you hear about all this and the bad thing about it is it is mostly our own fault. We are the ones who constantly elect the officials who run our country, states, counties, cities, and for some reason we always elect ones who have no interest in what could help but those which are interested lining their own pockets. Example the interstate system was originally built from concrete and needed very little update and was easy to repair, but that was replaced with less expensive black top which the money for it was figured at a cost higher than concrete and the extra savings went to political pockets in the form of projects.
There is much that can be done to maintain these stops and reduce costs, first we have to stop cowering to the complainers, we need to take all these people we have in prison watching color tv with cable and put them to work. Instead of us paying taxes to support them, they pay for themselves through the work and saves money which could go to updates and care. I would change the federal law and allow companies to open food courts and such at rest areas and charge rent for doing so this would also create an income instead of money going out. Yes I would separate semi-truck facilities from campers and charge both thus also creating an income.
Point here is we need to elect normal people instead of the rich who are only interested in getting richer and have no idea of what life is really like.
Oh there is much much more that can be done but not enough room here to list.

Sarge

[Gene]

The original interstates may have been concrete, I really never noticed when I was a teenager. But the ones redone now with concrete seem to be bumpy and badly done. In a lot of places they use cheap asphalt which lasts 10 or 20 years. In western Europe they use a higher grade and it lasts 30 or 40 years—higher initial costs, far less long term cost. When they built the system, it was designed for lighter trucks. Sometime about a generation ago, the trucking industry got the laws changed to allow 80,000 lb. rigs which set about destroying the roads and bridges. Before that the roads weren't grooved with two tire tracks as they often are now. I know trucks pay a lot of taxes, but it doesn't seem to equal the damage they cause. I don't have anything against the drivers, but the industry lobby has been effective and the rest of us have to fix the roads.

Charging fees to use rest stops will just result in more trucks using exit and entrance ramps to stop as they do now in states with few rest stops. I wouldn't stop at one that charged a fee to change drivers and use my own bathroom—we've already used ramps when nothing else is available. Rest stops are a safety factor and we want to encourage their use, not discourage use. Most have machines dispensing bad food and drink and probably pay at least some of their way.

Gene

[rideair]

Being someone that lives in Virginia and owns a tourist business (hot air balloon rides) the closings do not sit real well with me. According to information I have from the Virginia Tourism Counsel, the amount of money that will be saved in closing the rest areas will pave about “13 miles of road”. In a Commonwealth that has many thousands of miles of road, it’s a small drop in the bucket. In Virginia, we are currently trying to fight the number that is being closed. It will only be a matter of time, before someone having to get off at a local exit to use the restroom will be in a car accident, they will file a law-suit against the Commonwealth stating:

“By closing the roadside rest areas, the Commonwealth of Virginia “knowingly” created a traffic hazard, thus attributing to the cause of the accident and therefore is responsible in part for the accident”

I guess “Virginia is for Lovers” as long as one of those loves is not going to the restroom!

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

This is not good news. I am one that finds rest stops helpful. I hope the can reinvent them if need be to keep them going like in Texas.

Texas is closing rest stops wholesale and replacing them with a few "Taj-Mahal" rest stops that are scattered far and wide. Between San Marcos and Waco, for instance, there are about four closed rest stops, replaced by one very fancy new rest stop near Salado.

You definitely need an iron butt and a copper bladder to get from one rest stop to the next. I depend largely on truck stops (Flying J preferred), especially since I drive a diesel.

[wingfoot321]

Some really good comments by all.

Lived in Kansas until 2001. Their highway dept stated their calculations of wear rates on concrete highways was off by 50% primary due to increased traffic but, number one was trucks.

The truck increase since 1990 has been staggering. They do not pay their fair share. 80,000# trucks do much more damage than a 2700# camry. The truckers just have a good lobby.

Tennessee is in trouble because they build primarily stone/asphalt roads and the cost is up just like gasoline.

Highway miles traveled is down due to high costs of everything plus job losses.

States also know how to turn the thumb screws to squeeze more money out of us.

I see no real solution. The federals really don't want you driving, the states are nearly broke, our committments to the rest of the world are not diminishing.

We are still going to Mars.

[FreshAir]

I'm trying to remember how my family, mom, dad, brother and I, then 14, made the journey to California in 1952. It was RTE 66 all the way from Illinois, we started from Michigan. Rte 66 was 2 lanes of highway that each state connected together to make the highway. NO rest stops that I can recall. We were towing a 26' trailer that had a full bath but no waste tanks. It was overnight trailer parks for the luxury of bathroom use. I do remember that we stopped for gas frequently . We were on a limited budget so we pulled off the road for lunches in the trailer. There was always someplace to pull over to usually under some trees. Some pull off places a local group would provide picnic tables. Times were different.....not much truck traffic or even any real traffic problems....until we reached the LA freeways on the afternoon of July 3rd! That LA scene hasn't changed. Sorry, I was just remembering..........
Neil.

[Lothlorian]

OH yes those were the days. I miss those type of vacations.

Brian

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Lothlorian

OH yes those were the days. I miss those type of vacations.

Brian

We do also.....

[SARGE/AF]

Q) The original interstates may have been concrete, I really never noticed when I was a teenager. But the ones redone now with concrete seem to be bumpy and badly done. In a lot of places they use cheap asphalt which lasts 10 or 20 years. In western Europe they use a higher grade and it lasts 30 or 40 years—higher initial costs, far less long term cost. When they built the system, it was designed for lighter trucks. Sometime about a generation ago, the trucking industry got the laws changed to allow 80,000 lb. rigs which set about destroying the roads and bridges. Before that the roads weren't grooved with two tire tracks as they often are now. I know trucks pay a lot of taxes, but it doesn't seem to equal the damage they cause. I don't have anything against the drivers, but the industry lobby has been effective and the rest of us have to fix the roads.

A) Yes the original was concrete and yes they was made for the type of vehicles that traveled the roads at the time plus 20 years. It was more than a decade when semi's weight restrictions changed it was actually in the late 60's and that was due in part to the larger demand of goods and the lack of trucks. In the middle to late 70's is when the companies started making the changes that effected us all and deregulation started and then the economy being in the mess it was in, Unions making big demands, politicals started using cheaper materials. This is where things really changed for the worse. If they had used concrete made for the weight being placed upon it covered with Black top our highway system would not be in the condition it is today and this is supported by documentation if you do the research.. Currently we have different mixes of concrete that starts at 2000 lbs per square inch (driveways) and goes up to 9000 lbs per square inch and this covered by a good blacktop could last years but the union is not going to let that happen because of the loss of jobs which is the other reason the interstate system is in the condition it is in,, JOB SECURITY.
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Q) Charging fees to use rest stops will just result in more trucks using exit and entrance ramps to stop as they do now in states with few rest stops. I wouldn't stop at one that charged a fee to change drivers and use my own bathroom—we've already used ramps when nothing else is available. Rest stops are a safety factor and we want to encourage their use, not discourage use. Most have machines dispensing bad food and drink and probably pay at least some of their way.
A) I agree with not charging for use of the rest area (RA), but if the RA was to lease space in it and let local merchants rent those spaces to provide a resonable service then you not only maintain with income but provide services to the public and create jobs in the area around the RA. Pretty much like the toll plazas on the toll roads. They provide a place to stop with rest rooms, picnic tables, at no charge but also have food and such for the public. New Mexico when I traveled through it in the semi many of them was the same way, local merchants had food, crafts, etc, supplied and the catch was you had to live near the RA and the money had to stay in the area, unfortunately this was indian land so that is who controlled this. I bought some very pretty handmade jewlery there and watched them make it in some cases, we (wife & I) had some pretty good homemade food too.

NOTE; this is something that can work and should be pushed instead of raising taxes.

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

[quote=rideair;720806]Being someone that lives in Virginia and owns a tourist business (hot air balloon rides) the closings do not sit real well with me. According to information I have from the Virginia Tourism Counsel, the amount of money that will be saved in closing the rest areas will pave about “13 miles of road”. In a Commonwealth that has many thousands of miles of road, it’s a small drop in the bucket. In Virginia, we are currently trying to fight the number that is being closed. It will only be a matter of time, before someone having to get off at a local exit to use the restroom will be in a car accident, they will file a law-suit against the Commonwealth stating:

“By closing the roadside rest areas, the Commonwealth of Virginia “knowingly” created a traffic hazard, thus attributing to the cause of the accident and therefore is responsible in part for the accident”

I guess “Virginia is for Lovers” as long as one of those loves is not going to the restroom!
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Maybe as a business owner you should submit my suggestion to have the rest areas allow local business owners to rent spaces and supply a service to travelers. I mean do not allow these big companies in there where the money is going into some fat cats pocket and spent in other places and countries, but people who live and have a business near the rest area. We have many talented cooks, crafts makers, mechanics, etc, in these rural areas that could make money and the rest area would pay for itself this way, no rise in taxes.

Sarge

[richinny]

i was thrilled when 95 in NY was completely redone in concrete. i was stunned when i found the ride, even in a car, to be quite bumpy. soon, there were many cracks that were paved over with asphalt. i can believe they were built to specification tolerances.

i hope that the stops that are closed will at least leave the parking lots open but i suppose it would get smelly with folks relieving themselves of other burdens.