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Old 12-10-2007, 11:18 AM   #29
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I tow as slowly as anyone-usually about 60 MPH. I think it saves time overall on less impact shock to the trailer, and less tire trouble in hot weather plus the fuel savings. I'm not an advocate of high speeds when towing.

That said, it is pretty obvious that speed limits are arbitrary from region to region as well as the enforcement. In my driving I have encountered areas which are truly speed traps (have not had ticket in nearly 30 years).

Top of my list: Beatty NV
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Airstreamer67
All of the rationalizations for breaking the law by speeding. Ain't it amusing.
Remember those law breakers who dumped the tea into Boston Harbor? Or maybe those people on the Underground Railroad who protected blacks who escaped the south before 1860?

While speeding isn't quite the equivalent of those acts, it is true Americans largely ignore dumb laws or unfair enforcement. When legislators are too cowardly to reform dumbness or prevent speed traps, the citizenry takes action on its own. When a majority of drivers ignore speed limits (probably more in most places), informal democracy prevails.

Also, just was in Beatty, Nevada, without incident. I tow through towns pretty much at the speed limit and keep the radar detector on, no matter how dumb the limit may be, because I know I'm a large, perhaps out of state, obvious target for a revenue-hungary or lazy cop.

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Old 12-10-2007, 06:52 PM   #31
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Ya know,

Speed limits were originally set by engineers using technical data that pegged the speed at the 85th percentile of the measured rate of speed that the drivers of a certain road were traveling. As soon as the politicians and safety zealots started 'massaging' the data and speed 'enforcement' became a cash cow for many municipalities and ther government entities, the reasonable approach to speed limits went out the window.

Certain areas like school zones and heavily populated areas demand lower speed limits, but on interstates ad other hi-speed major thoroughfares......I think NOT! Reason has given way to governmental greed and an 'us vs. them' mentality of many law enforcement personnel. Many speed related accidents are the result of speed differentials between vehicles....say 50 vs 70mph on an intersate. Homogeneity of the traveling population, even at high rates of speed are far safer. Just look at the European hi-speed roadways like the Autobahn.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:04 PM   #32
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Right on Lew!

This being said, I do tend to take my time and smell the roses when I'm on vacation and pulling the trailer. But when I'm in the car going to work, I drive faster. Never unsafe fast, but I think a well maintained car can be driven faster than a nearly 60' long camping rig.

Now should I get the Honda 3000 or the Yamaha 3000 genset....

OK, back on topic. I prefer airplanes. You can go faster, safer now if I could just afford that Helio....
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:18 PM   #33
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I don't care how fast everyone else is going, I will not tow faster than 55 to 60; mileage is much better, and I certainly enjoy the trip more, and with much less " white knuckle" tension.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Ya know,

Speed limits were originally set by engineers using technical data that pegged the speed at the 85th percentile of the measured rate of speed that the drivers of a certain road were traveling.
The speed limits were set for the interstates in the '60s. Traffic is three or four times more dense today than then. The general public's driving skills have not improved.

Sorry all you speed demons. You may be a safe driver at a speed over the posted limit, but the guy you're passing may not be.

If you choose to speed, and you get cited... speed trap or otherwise, consider it your cost of doing business. I can't get too worked up about your tale of woe.

Roger
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
The speed limits were set for the interstates in the '60s. Traffic is three or four times more dense today than then. The general public's driving skills have not improved.

Sorry all you speed demons. You may be a safe driver at a speed over the posted limit, but the guy you're passing may not be.

If you choose to speed, and you get cited... speed trap or otherwise, consider it your cost of doing business. I can't get too worked up about your tale of woe.

Roger
Roger,

Point taken, especially about driving skills. In fact, I think that driving skills (now that's almost an oxymoron!) have declined precipitously since I first got behind the wheel.

If driving truly is a priviledge and NOT a right, then why isn't something being done on the training and education front to make new drivers more highly trained and responsible for their actions? You have to agree that the vast majority of driver training courses offered to young folks today are mostly a JOKE that is not funny at all! Why does one have to pay reatively large sums of money for training that actually teaches you evasive manuevers in emergency situations, how to drive defensively and how to REALLY drive a vehicle? I sought out several of these courses when I was younger to develop my skills behind the wheel, realizing that the ability to parallel park had absolutely no relationship to operating a 4000lb machine at 70 mph.

Driver training should focus on HOW to operate a vehicle in ALL traffic conditions, how the actions of a single driver can have disastrous consequences, how adhering to the rules of the road make traffic flow more homogenous and safer for all, and exactly what forces act on a vehicle in different conditions to give a clear picture to students of just what they are doing behind the wheel.
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
"... speed 'enforcement' became a cash cow for many municipalities and ther government entities, the reasonable approach to speed limits went out the window."
There's no doubt that's the case in many governmental entities, but let's not forget the insurance industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
"... an 'us vs. them' mentality of many law enforcement personnel. "
Based on actual experience, I have a different perspective on that. My officers viewed speed enforcement duty as a pain in the butt, but necessary. Our speed enforcement operations were out in the open, well signed, and we typically didn't stop anyone unless they were well above (10-15 MPH) the posted limit. My agency also had discretion on whether to enforce state code (fines and points proportionate with speed), or our own regulation which was a flat fine ($25) that doubled for a second and subsequent violations, but gave no points on the license of the driver. The regulatory approach worked very well for us and, in my opinion, enhanced public safety. In my career, I don't recall one of our speeding tickets ever being challenged in court.
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:39 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverRanger
There's no doubt that's the case in many governmental entities, but let's not forget the insurance industry.


Based on actual experience, I have a different perspective on that. My officers viewed speed enforcement duty as a pain in the butt, but necessary.
And, in working for and observing a number of other agencies over my career, I have had the same experience as SilverRanger. Very few enjoyed doing traffic enforcement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Roger,

Point taken, especially about driving skills. In fact, I think that driving skills (now that's almost an oxymoron!) have declined precipitously since I first got behind the wheel.

If driving truly is a priviledge and NOT a right, then why isn't something being done on the training and education front to make new drivers more highly trained and responsible for their actions? You have to agree that the vast majority of driver training courses offered to young folks today are mostly a JOKE that is not funny at all!
Lewster, when was the last time you saw mass demonstrations about us killing 40,000 of our own friends, neighbors, and family members with hundreds of thousands more injured annually?

Until there is that kind of ground swell support for greater traffic safety, do you really think that legislators are going out on a limb to tell significant numbers of voters that they're probably not going to be able to pass a driving skills test? I suspect that if we'd each spent half on drivers education what we each spend on auto sticker price to buy techno-solutions to crash safety, we'd have much safer highways and cars would cost half as much.

It's apparent, just from some of the posts in this thread that people love speed, and merely that they're breaking the law isn't sufficient to stop them. So, there are several parts to finding a solution: first is to not only cite or arrest the offender, but permanently seize the vehicle driven by anyone who violates the law in "x" degree, or who is unlicensed. That takes the ability of someone without a license away unless they steal a car. Folks who have cars will think twice about loaning them. Second is to make a driver actually prove their competence in order to get a driver's license. Third is to install nation-wide mass transit to take pressure off the highway system.

Our society, particularly as it relates to traffic laws is becoming seriously more and more lawless. Law enforcement alone can't force a society to conform, the society must be willing to live under it's own laws. When that society largely begins to refuse to do that, for whatever reason, anarchy reigns, and the innocent and still law-abiding people begin to suffer at the hands of the lawless.

I'm appalled at the numbers of our citizens who believe that traffic laws only apply to everyone else, but not them. "I don't like the law, so I don't have to follow it" seems to be a pretty common theme.

Roger
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:43 AM   #38
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Texas Snow Bird Alert

Beware of speed traps in Texs.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:54 AM   #39
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Now THIS is a speed trap!

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Old 12-11-2007, 11:05 AM   #40
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Last week, two drivers were killed in a head-on collision 10 miles from my house. Last night, in about the same location, four cars were involved in a wreck, fortunately not killing anyone unless someone subsequently dies from the injuries. I just returned from an RV trip to Texas, where I saw a burning tractor-trailer on I-20 after a multi-vehicle collision. A few months ago, I started up at a green light, went through the intersection, then noticed a car coming right through the red light where I was crossing just a couple of seconds before. I saw the driver's stop lights come on after he went through the intersection. He was probably cursing me for almost causing a collision, most likely on the cell phone.

It's really bad out there.

Good luck to all.
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:52 AM   #41
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I think reasonable traffic enforcement is a necessary and desirable fact of life. Most of us have probably wished an officer was watching when someone darts in and out of traffic cutting off everyone in his path-or other "accident waiting to happen" scenes.

The topic of this thread though is speed traps. Unfortunately they have a long history and still do exist in areas. This is an arbitrary enforcement well above the norm to generate revenue.

We would all like safer highways. It is hard for me to believe when driving on LAs crowded freeways that our road transportation system is the safest it has ever been. Statistically there are approx. 1.4 deaths per 100 million miles now, compared to about 5 deaths per 100 million in 1967. It was even worse in the early ages of car travel, roughly 10 times what it is today. From a deaths per miles standpoint auto travel is approaching the safety of air travel.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:44 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi

We would all like safer highways. It is hard for me to believe when driving on LAs crowded freeways that our road transportation system is the safest it has ever been. Statistically there are approx. 1.4 deaths per 100 million miles now, compared to about 5 deaths per 100 million in 1967. It was even worse in the early ages of car travel, roughly 10 times what it is today. From a deaths per miles standpoint auto travel is approaching the safety of air travel.
I think some of that has to do with vehicle improvements. Mostly in the area of active safety items, like braking and overall handling. Also in the addition of Air Bags and other passive safety systems.
I own a 50's car, and it's brakes and handling are downright scary. Even at the much lower performance it delivers.
My 2007 Suburban is vastly more capable in braking and handling than my 1997 was.
But, as you mentioned, a speed trap is a speed trap, just not a positive way to police.
The way I see it, if I get caught, it's the cops taking a payment on their credit, for all the times I didn't get caught. It's been over 10 years, so I am probably past due on a payment. Cops are people, some are good, others are bad.
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