Something is going on: Airstream rollover three

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by AirstreamCSH

This is why we oversized our TV.
Word is you can tow with a 1/2 ton because lots of people do it all the time and some Internet poster has done it for a hundred thousand miles with no problems. However once you've been jerked around by an AS on a hill because it seriously outweighed the TV, you will see the wisdom in the post above and Protagonists accident investigation viewpoint.

Yeah. I should increase the weight of this Kenworth to 23,000-lbs and then it can handle the resulting 56,000-lb tanker better than when each was 19/60 respectively.

A halfton with IFS plus rack & pinion will give better feedback than any one ton with straight axke and sector gear steering. By the time it's felt in the latter iis starting to go over, and there's no stopping it.

Weight and crude design aren't a benefit past a point shortly reached.

[dkottum]

This unfortunate thread was started on speculation, and a strong suggestion half-ton tow vehicles are the fault. Couldn't be better designed to provoke argument, with little use to anyone.

[paiceman]

Yep, I was thinking of another truck I have. My F350 empty is right about 8,000# also GVW is 11,500#. Our Classic GVW is 10,000#.

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Cars cluster together at or near the speed limit, especially in places like Ohio that enforce the limit consistently. It is called "platooning" by traffic engineers. Everyone thinks they are allowed an extra 2 or 3 mph over the speed limit, so people get in the left lane and take miles to pass. They jockey around and pass each other for miles, and tie up the center and left lane. I noticed on the autobahn there is much less tendency to tie up the left lane, probably because the lack of an upper limit prevents left lane "police" from blocking others.



Sure, some people speed up briefly when being passed, for whatever reason. I've noticed some actually will do 80-85 mph to keep from being passed. Then they barely do the speed limit, usually less. Never understood this behavior but I can usually recognize and avoid these folks. The key is to watch driving behavior, identify the risks, and avoid.

I call that being in "bad traffic", that is often when I pull off and buy a cup of coffee or fill my tank and let the frustrating morons go ahead. #JustSayin

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by dkottum

This unfortunate thread was started on speculation, and a strong suggestion half-ton tow vehicles are the fault. Couldn't be better designed to provoke argument, with little use to anyone.

Little changes here on AF. Passive aggressive statements like "if people just did it my way with a giant TV there would be no rollovers".

[pteck]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Yeah. I should increase the weight of this Kenworth to 23,000-lbs and then it can handle the resulting 56,000-lb tanker better than when each was 19/60 respectively.

A halfton with IFS plus rack & pinion will give better feedback than any one ton with straight axke and sector gear steering. By the time it's felt in the latter iis starting to go over, and there's no stopping it.

Weight and crude design aren't a benefit past a point shortly reached.

To ask rhetorical questions... Why isn't your Kenworth IFS? And why isn't your your Kenworth rolling over? Must be the better feedback in the 23k lb rig?

Because it's not about that. You certainly know more than anyone that durability is sometimes the key design requirement. And if a end user demands that, so be it. There's nothing inherently wrong with a dual solid axle rig. It can and will tow just fine.

[cazual6]

I think it might have been due to the upcoming Eclipse (passed now obviously). That speculation is as good as any the way this thread is going.

[OTRA15]

Ditto.

Originally Posted by dkottum

This unfortunate thread was started on speculation, and a strong suggestion half-ton tow vehicles are the fault. Couldn't be better designed to provoke argument, with little use to anyone.

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Little changes here on AF. Passive aggressive statements like "if people just did it my way with a giant TV there would be no rollovers".

Originally Posted by cazual6

I think it might have been due to the upcoming Eclipse (passed now obviously). That speculation is as good as any the way this thread is going.

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Gophers

Your Welcome.

Bob

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

I call that being in "bad traffic", that is often when I pull off and buy a cup of coffee or fill my tank and let the frustrating morons go ahead. #JustSayin

Happens all the way from Detroit to Toledo, or Chicago. Mix in heavy semi truck traffic for a really good time!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by pteck

To ask rhetorical questions... Why isn't your Kenworth IFS? And why isn't your your Kenworth rolling over? Must be the better feedback in the 23k lb rig?

Because it's not about that. You certainly know more than anyone that durability is sometimes the key design requirement. And if a end user demands that, so be it. There's nothing inherently wrong with a dual solid axle rig. It can and will tow just fine.

And why are we comparing semi trucks to travel trailer/pickup combinations? I've driven both and if my TT/pickup combination drove, accelerated, stopped, or handled anything like a semi I'd find another hobby! Those drivers must have the patience of saints.

[AirstreamCSH]

I read the posts daily to learn about the things I didn't know were an issue. Guessing many of us here do something similar.

That's why this thread was probably the most valuable in a while.
Never talked to an accident investigator nor read how they think.
Never drove a tractor trailer so I don't have that insight.

So keep the information coming. It is appreciated.
If possible, write the snark but don't it send.
Just takes longer to read and find the useful information we are where for.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by paiceman

I agree, except TV weigh more than trailer? My F350 is half the weight of my 2017 Classic plus your tractor did not weigh as much as your 53' trailer. But, towing with a uni-body or light weight SUV is IMO one is looking for an issue.

My 4 axle kenworth with dump box empty was 27,500 loaded it was 55,500 lbs, the 3axle pup trailer with 16' dump box weighed 12,500 empty and loaded it was 43,500....hello....that is why it handles so good in all road conditions....

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

My 4 axle kenworth with dump box empty was 27,500 loaded it was 55,500 lbs, the 3axle pup trailer with 16' dump box weighed 12,500 empty and loaded it was 43,500....hello....that is why it handles so good in all road conditions....

Also my 3/4 ram weighs about 9000 lbs, the 31' as is 7800 hitched up...

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Also my 3/4 ram weighs about 9000 lbs, the 31' as is 7800 hitched up...

Empty?

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by pteck

To ask rhetorical questions... Why isn't your Kenworth IFS? And why isn't your your Kenworth rolling over? Must be the better feedback in the 23k lb rig?

Because it's not about that. You certainly know more than anyone that durability is sometimes the key design requirement. And if a end user demands that, so be it. There's nothing inherently wrong with a dual solid axle rig. It can and will tow just fine.

Should I remind you that I don't allow other traffic to surround me out on the Interstate? Or that I constantly see rigs like ours not only do this, but compete against other traffic to run fast?

I run 66-67/mph while at work (as conditions may permit) on the Interstate. How often do "you" (anyone) think I pass AS rigs? A few times per year. And am passed by dozens. Usually with a pickup (any description) and with a bad lash-up. That's the norm.

How many know total braking distance? A full-on emergency stop (as those drums won't be effective in a meaningful way at the end). Think they slow for blind curves or rises? Ha!

How many have tested for a double lane-change emergency? What is the maximum speed?

Etc

A farm tractor can be run down the highway to the next field. But we wouldn't do it at 60-mph, even if we could. They're usually heavier than what they tow.

Want to run 70? One had better get a far better TV than a straight axle pickup. Solo or towing. As good as these trailers are, it doesn't make sense to hobble them.

What's my "favorite" bad behavior to observe? Passing me without a clue of what's ahead of me is first. Second is passing me only to find there's no room for braking (either of us) due to traffic ahead or construction. It's a constant.

But, just like folks ALL believe themselves above average in intelligence, so, too, their belief in their driving skill. Easily debunked.

Badly chosen equipment, equipment badly set up, and bad habits behind the wheel underlay the assertion that one piece of that therefore makes a "good" choice.

Sure, if it isn't running around empty. If it is, it wasn't a good choice. Something with a better safety record per design would have been better.

Weight and wheelbase are items within context. They aren't magic in and of themselves. In fact they work against one as they increase.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

My 4 axle kenworth with dump box empty was 27,500 loaded it was 55,500 lbs, the 3axle pup trailer with 16' dump box weighed 12,500 empty and loaded it was 43,500....hello....that is why it handles so good in all road conditions....

Yeah, you were no more Mario Andretti than I am when empty (tractor 19 and trailer 14). But since you were stuck with a Cat motor I'd have had to continually go around you.

And, yeah, I've NEVER seen a dump spun around on a wet surface or slide off the road. Nope, never. At least I can use an effective trailer brake.

Since anti-lock trailer brakes have been law about twenty years now, it isn't much of a feat to stay out of jackknife situations. Some large carriers don't even spec a trolley brake any more. The real horror is automated manual transmissions. Better than yesteryear, but bound to put one in a funky place eventually (a sharp learning curve on manual override; I'm sure the Somalians and Salvadorans rule that roost).

The fact is that weight -- where it's located (gravity center) -- can become the cause of an accident. It's benefits sharply taper off after 4K TV weight. Same for wheelbase. After 120" it doesn't mean too much EXCEPT worsening handling/steering as it increases.

Long wheelbase, high COG crude suspension and dead steering equals HIGHER risk of rollover; of serious accident injury. It can't get out of its own way.

Why all those pickemups are running down the road close to their emergency handling & braking speed not much above 55-mph.

Except they aren't. ("Hey, I got 900TQ with my new X-mobile!")

.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

What? My 350 weighs 8,000lbs empty (and it's aluminum) how much does a classic weigh?

Our 2017 30' Classic with full tank of water trip ready scales in at 7,900 lbs.
The TV a 2017 F-250 Diesel also trip ready, front 4,600-rear 4720 = 9,320 lbs.
I have a real solid balanced feeling rolling down the road. No dog wagging the tail which I had with the previous TV an F-150
Got scaled 3 weeks ago.

[xrvr]

Love these comments about really large trucks, totally not relevant but I am impressed with the drivel.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Yeah, you were no more Mario Andretti than I am when empty (tractor 19 and trailer 14). But since you were stuck with a Cat motor I'd have had to continually go around you.

And, yeah, I've NEVER seen a dump spun around on a wet surface or slide off the road. Nope, never. At least I can use an effective trailer brake.

Since anti-lock trailer brakes have been law about twenty years now, it isn't much of a feat to stay out of jackknife situations. Some large carriers don't even spec a trolley brake any more. The real horror is automated manual transmissions. Better than yesteryear, but bound to put one in a funky place eventually (a sharp learning curve on manual override; I'm sure the Somalians and Salvadorans rule that roost).

The fact is that weight -- where it's located (gravity center) -- can become the cause of an accident. It's benefits sharply taper off after 4K TV weight. Same for wheelbase. After 120" it doesn't mean too much EXCEPT worsening handling/steering as it increases.

Long wheelbase, high COG crude suspension and dead steering equals HIGHER risk of rollover; of serious accident injury. It can't get out of its own way.

Why all those pickemups are running down the road close to their emergency handling & braking speed not much above 55-mph.

Except they aren't. ("Hey, I got 900TQ with my new X-mobile!")

.

Well now 1.5 million on this KW now, and no problems...skinny road all the way....100,000 gross..

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Empty?

Close 8900 on ram , trailer is 7800 on the axles....all hooked up going somewhere