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Old 01-02-2015, 11:52 AM   #43
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I'll have to give a second to the Moki Dugway. And here's my favorite video of it:

http://youtu.be/f5mdW2Uro9A


Lynn
Thanks Lynn....

I found a motorcycle video of the Moki..... pretty spectacular.... I still think west side of Independence Pass going down into Aspen is scarier but this is pretty good.

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Old 01-03-2015, 07:15 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by eubank View Post
I'll have to give a second to the Moki Dugway. And here's my favorite video of it:


Lynn

Nice Road ! Would love to drive up that one with the AS. !
Reminds me of the road between Tres Piedres and Taos New Mexico back before there was a "Gorge Bridge" on US 64.
It was 1959 and Mom and Dad with us three kids were out in western New Mexico in the summer in Dads 57 Ford Country Sedan station wagon with a 223 inline 6 , 3 spd overdrive transmission with a 4:11 rear end, pulling a 16 ft Skipper caned ham travel trailer. Mom was wanting to see Taos and Dad had asked at the gas station in Tres Piedres if there were a road that would wind up in Toas from there . They said they used the dirt and gravel road that came out in Arroyo Hondo.
We headed out and quite a few miles later the road narrowed to one lane with a few spots for vehicles to get by each other , and I do not know what the grade was but there was no chance of turning around and Dad had told Mom that we would never be able to pull the grade back to the top any way.Switchback after switchback, with no trailer brakes and drum brakes on the Ford it was a white knuckle ride to the old iron bridge at the bottom with quite a few stops to let the brakes cool off . Dad's main concern that there would be a grade up the other side that would be as bad or worse up the other side. But we found out from a fisherman at the crossing the road up the east side was piece of cake compared to the west side . After a swim in the cold water in the Rio grande and lunch , we went on to Taos.

Went back up the west side of that road back in the early eighty's with my wife and little one in a 67 Chevrolet pop top cab over camper van with a 307 V-8 and a powerglide slush box transmission pulling a very small tent trailer . It had rained the nigh before and had some huge washed out places in the road. We had to fill in the washouts with rocks and push a bit to make it to the top. I suppose the road is still there , and is still an adventure to travel if anyone is interested .
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Old 01-03-2015, 08:18 AM   #45
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Utah Highway 12

Utah Highway 12 between Capitol Reef and Bryce is a tough, scary drive. Spectacular in every way but no shoulders, no guardrails, daunting oncoming traffic, very steep and curvy. My knuckles hurt after a hundred miles of this. Whew! My wife said the panoramas were breathtaking. I wouldn't know.
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Old 01-03-2015, 08:56 AM   #46
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Yep, that road is still there. Basically, you get off the main highway at Arroyo Hondo and follow westwards. Twisting around a bit, you'll find your way to the only road that goes down into the canyon. At the bottom is the John Dunn Bridge. Cross and crawl your way out the other side. Keep following the dirt road, and you'll find your way over towards Tres Piedras.

But I guarantee you that the road down to John Dunn isn't nearly as scary as the Moki Dugway.


Lynn

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannydimitt View Post
Nice Road ! Would love to drive up that one with the AS. !
Reminds me of the road between Tres Piedres and Taos New Mexico back before there was a "Gorge Bridge" on US 64.
It was 1959 and Mom and Dad with us three kids were out in western New Mexico in the summer in Dads 57 Ford Country Sedan station wagon with a 223 inline 6 , 3 spd overdrive transmission with a 4:11 rear end, pulling a 16 ft Skipper caned ham travel trailer. Mom was wanting to see Taos and Dad had asked at the gas station in Tres Piedres if there were a road that would wind up in Toas from there . They said they used the dirt and gravel road that came out in Arroyo Hondo.
We headed out and quite a few miles later the road narrowed to one lane with a few spots for vehicles to get by each other , and I do not know what the grade was but there was no chance of turning around and Dad had told Mom that we would never be able to pull the grade back to the top any way.Switchback after switchback, with no trailer brakes and drum brakes on the Ford it was a white knuckle ride to the old iron bridge at the bottom with quite a few stops to let the brakes cool off . Dad's main concern that there would be a grade up the other side that would be as bad or worse up the other side. But we found out from a fisherman at the crossing the road up the east side was piece of cake compared to the west side . After a swim in the cold water in the Rio grande and lunch , we went on to Taos.

Went back up the west side of that road back in the early eighty's with my wife and little one in a 67 Chevrolet pop top cab over camper van with a 307 V-8 and a powerglide slush box transmission pulling a very small tent trailer . It had rained the nigh before and had some huge washed out places in the road. We had to fill in the washouts with rocks and push a bit to make it to the top. I suppose the road is still there , and is still an adventure to travel if anyone is interested .
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:17 AM   #47
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Love that country, driving through Grand Staircase Escalante is certainly scary, but such beauty! And Bryce, wow, hiking the trails in the snow, lovely, seeing cougar prints (fresh) down at the river. And getting attacked by the not-so-wild turkeys, looking for handouts.
The scariest drive for me was certainly the Million Dollar highway from Durango to Ouray. I wouldn't want to drive that road north to south and be in the outside lane in the canyons. Yikes. We also went through there in late March, avalanche season, holding our breath and keeping really quiet, lol-now. Hot coffee and catch your breath in Silverton. The big bonus at the end is soaking out the stress kinks in the hot springs (all day) in Ouray with the snowy mountains all around and some excellent places to eat.
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Old 01-03-2015, 05:01 PM   #48
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Dana, the Google car may have had an easy time, but they weren't pulling a trailer or driving a rental truck that has seen better days. We drive and down it all the time, but for others, especially flatlanders, it must be scary.

The Arroyo Hondo road comes down to the bridge and on the other side, a bit to the south is a hot spring next to the Rio Grande. Some people in it are actually naked! Nice place to stop. There's another one downstream at an old way station, but you have to walk down an old, abandoned road and I can't remember exactly how to get to it. I do remember getting bitten by a billion no-see-ums there (or whatever they call them in NM).

We've been on a lot of the scary roads and what is scary for some is not for another. One that might have been scary to me if I had been driving was the highway into Skagway, Alaska. It is very steep 2 lane road that required 2nd gear and maybe first at times with 3 1/2 tons of trailer behind us. Barb was driving and I was just looking at the sights and taking photos. Going down I was on the protected side, but if I had been on the drop off side, I might have been freaking out. Barb did fine and we stopped at the better of two RV parks in town.

After getting settled, I was outside doing something and a guy who had recently arrived came over to me. He started talking about the road down and how scary it was. He was sure I had had the same experience and that only a man would drive down that grade. I said "I wasn't paying that much attention. My wife drove down". He looked even more distressed as if it were impossible a woman had safely driven down that road and neither of us was scared. He didn't have much more to say.

It comes down to what you are used to, whether you are afraid of heights in a lot of these cases, and how you approach it.

The scariest paved road that comes to mind is the western end of the Going to the Sun Highway at Glacier NP. From a distance you can see it carved into the rock of a sheer wall about 200 miles high. Barb was driving and after the first switchback I was on the outside. It got to me—I know not to look down, but I had to look down. We were at least 50 miles above the valley in my mind. I asked her to stop at the first wide spot, very wide I hoped. Finally—after driving and driving for days it seemed—there was parking area and Barb stopped, I got out holding securely onto the truck, feeling the ground giving out under me and slowly walked around to the driver's door, trying not to disturb the road that was ready to fall miles downward to the center of the planet, and got behind the wheel, turned around and drove down. So long as I was in control of the truck, I could handle it (barely), but I made it down. My heart rate slowly came back to normal and I got out in the valley and made sure the land was solid. I've been in worse places, but that day on that road I did not do well. While I knew the road wasn't falling down, I could feel it falling down. I could see the cracks in the pavement widening as I walked around the truck, even though I knew it wasn't cracking.

It is amazing how fear can change our perceptions and we see and feel imaginary things. My father was terrified of heights and surely taught me the same thing, but I do a lot better than he did, mostly. I've driven the coast highways in California with the trailer and not been scared, driven old mining roads that are narrow, off camber and have poor traction and taken the trailer all over the mountains, but I'm staying away my nemesis, the Going to the Sun Hwy. Maybe Douglas Pass too—we now live fairly close to it, but never have tried it. Barb's cousins came here on their motorcycles last year and complained for hours about it. It must be "interesting" because these are not people who usually are upset by roads.

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Old 01-03-2015, 06:01 PM   #49
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It is interesting to me that many seem to be intimidated by roads with steep drop-offs on the side. I guess I became immune to that with my dad when I was young. The simple solution is "Don't drive off the road". If the road was flat or in a valley, with no drop offs we wouldn't think twice about it or worry that we were going to drive off the road. Since we don't normally drive off those road, why should we assume we are going to drive off the steep slopes on the side of some roads? No reason whatsoever. I'm sure you would agree if you stop and think about it.

Always drive carefully and at a speed appropriate to your comfort level and none of these roads should be scary to you. Be always aware of the performance of your TV and TT and always check your brakes and be at a appropriate speed and in a appropriate gear before starting down a hill. If you took the time to think out what you are doing in advance, these
"scary" roads will become scenic enjoyable experiences.

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Old 01-03-2015, 06:36 PM   #50
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Ken, you underestimate what parents teach their children when they are young and impressionable. By the time I grew up I knew it was not rational and could force myself to stand on the edge of a steep drop off and when I had a car, just make myself drive along those roads. I do a lot better than my father ever did, but sometimes it just gets to me. By the time I was a teenager I realized that his fears were irrational and I could ignore him.

I have no doubt that some people who find these roads scary had similar "teaching". Parents don't know they are scaring their children, but they do it anyway through body language and things said thoughtlessly. Riding in a small plane doesn't scare me—well that trip flightseeing around Denali was terrifying for everyone in the plane, but I did better than a lot of them who were hiding their heads in their hands or looking at the floor. My usually fearless wife was even nervous and we held hands, trying not to crush each other's hands while doing it. Bouncing around in the sky as a storm brewed around us was not fun, but it sure made for a good story. It sure was pretty outside and no one threw up, but everyone was very, very quiet. The pilot just kept talking calmly to get everyone through it. Once we got off the plane, everyone started talking and talking about how scared they were. The earth never looked so good.

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Old 01-03-2015, 07:25 PM   #51
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SCARY ROADS inspired by Gene & others to share

The way my father could and would fly up Mt. Evans was not for the faint of heart. I wasn't, but it was nevertheless sobering to not be able to see the roadside through the side windows and him cursing Texans cutting the corners on their way down.

I am sure he was thrilled at having a state of the art big engine with no lack of power compared to his years as a young man where it was inevitable one would have to stop, get the car turned around, and proceed the rest of the way in reverse. All hands on deck to help push as well.

Some years later running the Big Thompson Canyon the day of the night of the deadly flood where one sat outside the wheel width in a motor home was almost as much fun as only the drop was to be seen.

No way to top those trips. Oncoming traffic is the keester-clincher .

.
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Old 01-03-2015, 07:41 PM   #52
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Ken, you underestimate what parents teach their children when they are young and impressionable. By the time I grew up I knew it was not rational and could force myself to stand on the edge of a steep drop off and when I had a car, just make myself drive along those roads. I do a lot better than my father ever did, but sometimes it just gets to me. By the time I was a teenager I realized that his fears were irrational and I could ignore him.

I have no doubt that some people who find these roads scary had similar "teaching". Parents don't know they are scaring their children, but they do it anyway through body language and things said thoughtlessly. Riding in a small plane doesn't scare me—well that trip flightseeing around Denali was terrifying for everyone in the plane, but I did better than a lot of them who were hiding their heads in their hands or looking at the floor. My usually fearless wife was even nervous and we held hands, trying not to crush each other's hands while doing it. Bouncing around in the sky as a storm brewed around us was not fun, but it sure made for a good story. It sure was pretty outside and no one threw up, but everyone was very, very quiet. The pilot just kept talking calmly to get everyone through it. Once we got off the plane, everyone started talking and talking about how scared they were. The earth never looked so good.

Gene
Well, it's hard to say which is better, but I guess, since we're both around, both experiences work. My dad's goal, I believe, was to make me a self sufficient "man". In many ways, I think he fell short. I still prefer the soft life of leisure.

With over 2000 hours of riding in an airplane (1500+ of them in a combat zone), at times with pilots who I had marginal confidence it, I guess I have become calloused to scary things in the air. I think if the gods or demons of aviation wanted me, they probably missed their chance, as I now mostly avoid flying if there's an reasonable alternative.

I certainly sympathize with anyone who gets anxious in a any situation. Anxiety is a very powerful and unpleasant thing. I try to keep all my anxiety demons hidden from the rest of the world lest they be used against me.

My main point was not that anxiety is unreasonable, but rather it was that when one thinks about the causes in simple logical terms, they can often overcome the anxieties.

Please don't approach me with a snake in you hands.

Ken
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:43 PM   #53
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SCARY ROADS inspired by Gene & others to share

The west end of Going To The Sun road is a lot more fun on a recumbent trike. I believe RVs are prohibited, btw. We rode 13 miles uphill all the way from Avalanche to the Bird Woman Falls Overlook, which is where the road was shut for continued snow removal toward the pass. Then we turned around and rode our trikes all the way back down again. Good thing our brakes never gave out. As Gene mentioned, there are no guard rails. If you went over the edge up there, you would definitely die. The ride was spectacular, and especially nice since the road wasn't yet open to cars for the season.
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:51 PM   #54
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Highway 12 in Utah between Escalante and Boulder. The highway goes right through breathtaking desert slickrock, but at one point, it drops off steeply on both sides, with no shoulder to speak of, let alone guard rails. Safe for RVs, though, if you can hug the center line. The Moki Dugway south of Natural Bridges on HY 128 in Utah (mentioned above) is so scary that we would never do it with a trailer, which in any event, is discouraged by highway signs. Narrow, hairpin turns, steep drop-offs, and trucks coming the other way.
Mokee (or Moki) Dugway

You can no longer haul trailers on Going-to-the-Sun road (Logan Pass) in Glacier NP. This road gets so congested during the high season, anyway, it's best just to take a Park Service shuttle.

I assume this thread isn't about basic dirt road 4-wheeling stuff around Moab Utah, Canyonlands NP, &c. Stuff like the Shafer Trail, White Rim Trail, Elephant Hill, &c.
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:54 PM   #55
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The way my father could and would fly up Mt. Evans was not for the faint of heart. I wasn't, but it was nevertheless sobering to not be able to see the roadside through the side windows and him cursing Texans cutting the corners on their way down.

I am sure he was thrilled at having a state of the art big engine with no lack of power compared to his years as a young man where it was inevitable one would have to stop, get the car turned around, and proceed the rest of the way in reverse. All hands on deck to help push as well.

Some years later running the Big Thompson Canyon the day of the night of the deadly flood where one sat outside the wheel width in a motor home was almost as much fun as only the drop was to be seen.

No way to top those trips. Oncoming traffic is the keester-clincher .

.
Now you're showing your age. I bet a whole lot of folks here have no idea what you said about proceeding in reverse.
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Old 01-04-2015, 12:04 AM   #56
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Actually, we've had people do that up our steep driveway.
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