Safety: Learning from Incidents, Accidents & Crashes

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by John-aka-Poppy

Airstream accident today:

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Towing: Jackknife with Hensley

WBCCI members - anyone know these folks? Hope everyone is OK.

John

How is that possible? I thought hensleys were perfect in every way and absolutely stopped any chance of sway.

[J. Morgan]

Logic begs the question,,,

Where is it stated that this accident was caused by sway?

[AWCHIEF]

It is called sarcasm. In my experience logic has little to do with sarcasm.

[J. Morgan]

I know it was sarcasm, some sarcasm should be answered nonetheless.

Sarcasm caries weight, in modern America it is OFTEN mistaken for logic.

(Above,,, I decided not to escalate the situation by replying with sarcasm.)

[AWCHIEF]

Whatever, play your silly game - alone.

[John&Vicki]

Let's keep it civil gentlemen. We're all members of the same community and we all share a common interest. The topic of this thread is learning more about safety by examining mishaps.

Again, I hope our fellow Streamers are OK - and I hope they participate in the forum and will give us some details of the accident.

Thanks,
John

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by John-aka-Poppy

Let's keep it civil gentlemen. We're all members of the same community and we all share a common interest. The topic of this thread is learning more about safety by examining mishaps.

Again, I hope our fellow Streamers are OK - and I hope they participate in the forum and will give us some details of the accident.

Thanks,
John

No problem here, that is what the ignore list is for.

[J. Morgan]

Wow,,,

I can have a conversation with a person who disagrees with my position and not get angry.

Peace ?

By the way. When I typed;

"Logic begs the question,,, Where is it stated that this accident was caused by sway?"

it was a legitimate question. It was to the point, but NOT intended to piss anyone off.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

How is that possible? I thought hensleys were perfect in every way and absolutely stopped any chance of sway.

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Logic begs the question,,,

Where is it stated that this accident was caused by sway?

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Wow,,,

I can have a conversation with a person who disagrees with my position and not get angry.

Peace ?

By the way. When I typed;

"Logic begs the question,,, Where is it stated that this accident was caused by sway?"

it was a legitimate question. It was to the point, but NOT intended to piss anyone off.

Hi, I was going to get into this argument earlier; I mean post about this. I don't believe that anyone said it was caused by sway, [correction; AWCHIEF mentioned sway] but Hensley claims that there has NEVER been a loss of control accident with their hitch. [at least that is what I believe that I read] This may be what AWCHIEF meant?

[AWCHIEF]

Bob, you read and understood my post correctly.

[J. Morgan]

I am not aware of the claim;;;

"Hensley claims that there has NEVER been a loss of control accident with their hitch. "

If so this would be a bold claim, which would be impossible to defend. "Loss of control" is a very broad description with loads of undefined variables and no defined qualifiers.

I would like to see a link to this claim. If Hensley made this claim, they were stupid to do so.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

I am not aware of the claim;

"Hensley claims that there has NEVER been a loss of control accident with their hitch. "

If so this would be a bold claim, which would be impossible to defend.

It's also entirely false. Google the search term "Hensley hitch accident report," and read the first two links that pop up, to threads on RV.net and Woodalls. From 2003 to 2006 there were four reported accidents with a Hensley, about one per year. I'm sure they have been more since.

[J. Morgan]

Well of course the claim is false, but was the claim made?

[John&Vicki]

As a relatively new Streamer, what do you more experienced folks want me to learn from this discussion? Few possibilities:

(1) Hensleys, and probably it's off-the-ball cousin, the ProPride, will assure that your trailer will never sway.

(2) Accidents are infrequent with OTB (off-the-ball) hitches given that sway, a major cause of accidents, is eliminated.

(3) Accidents are not at all infrequent with OTB (off-the-ball) hitches because: (a) sway really can occur with an OTB hitch, or (b) there are multiple other ways an accident can happen, or (c) both.

My goal is to keep my wife and I and the people around us on the road as safe as possible when I'm towing my Airstream. If I had to paint my TV pink and sing an aria while driving I'd do it (although the aria would be off-key). I'm looking to those with more experience than me for some expert wisdom.

Thanks,
John

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Well of course the claim is false, but was the claim made?

Yes, on their webpage, which says…

So what you have with Hensley Mfg. is the latest technology in a pivot point projection hitch along with a perfect 20 year safety record.

You can read the context here:Hensley Mfg., Inc. - Trailer Sway Eliminated...Guaranteed

[J. Morgan]

Like I said, the claim is not defensible.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by John-aka-Poppy

As a relatively new Streamer, what do you more experienced folks want me to learn from this discussion?

I can't speak for everyone, but my take-away from this discussion on hitches is:
1 - No system is perfect, but some are better than others; and the one that's better in one application may not be better in ALL applications.
2 - Do your research before buying, to find the one that's best for YOUR application.
3 - Listening to a sales pitch is NOT the same as doing research. The average salesman just wants to sell you a hitch, and has no particular interest in making sure you get the right one.
4 - Even after you buy your system, follow the proper procedures for using it. Even the best system can be defeated by a careless user who doesn't adjust it properly.

[John&Vicki]

OK, on the one side we have demonstrative proof that there have been many accidents with Hensleys installed, including the one I posted here yesterday. That one clearly fishtailed. On the other side, this is what Hensley says on their website about the possibility of that happening:

"What does the Arrow® do? It eliminates any possibility of trailer sway. That’s not a misprint or an exaggeration. It is physically impossible for a travel trailer to sway, fishtail, or jackknife when outfitted with the Hensley Arrow®."

So I think we can logically conclude that what Hensley asserts in their marketing as pertains to fishtailing is false. Which does damage their credibility in my view. Doesn't mean they don't have a superior technology, but claims like that can create a false sense of invulnerability on the part of drivers, which can add a measure of danger back into the equation.

Cheers,
John

[J. Morgan]

The truck and trailer apparently DID jackknife, but my review of the link did not provide the details of what led to the accident.

Did sway cause this accident, or was the camper cut off in traffic, was the driver on the phone, or what?

Back in the early 70s the man my mom worked for had a son who burned to death in his car after an accident. The first citizen responders lost him because they could not get him out of his seat belt.

Does this mean that seat belts are bad?

If I claim that I can make a faster stop without antilock brakes, does this make anti lock brakes bad?

In any case, my defense of Hensley is that it makes my truck and trailer drive much, much , better , and of a totally different character than it did without it. It drives SO different that I believe it impossible that conventional sway devices and WD could ever duplicate.

Am I wrong to declare this belief?

FWIW, they should not include the vague remark "a perfect safety record".

A bathtub does not, and can not have a perfect safety record.

[John&Vicki]

Over stated claims about a product turns me off. It makes me question the basic integrity of the company making the claims. I notice that ProPride appears to be less boisterous in their claims.

I'm seriously evaluating buying one of the off-the-ball hitches, primarily the ProPride. It's a significant expense but I'm willing to pay it if it does indeed add a significant margin of safety to my towing. But the Hensley hyperbole is off-putting.

John