Safety: Learning from Incidents, Accidents & Crashes

[xrvr]

Buy something for what it does, not for what it claims to be. Lots of really good products go overboard on advertising, sometimes unnecessarily. And lots of shoddy products use hype to make a buck. Do your research, use your head, and then decide. Jim

[rostam]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Yes, on their webpage, which says…You can read the context here:Hensley Mfg., Inc. - Trailer Sway Eliminated...Guaranteed

The sad thing is that some forum members who use Hensley/ProPride repeat this (inaccurate) sales/advertisement pitch, in every hitch thread, as if its a proven fact.

[John&Vicki]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Buy something for what it does, not for what it claims to be. Lots of really good products go overboard on advertising, sometimes unnecessarily. And lots of shoddy products use hype to make a buck. Do your research, use your head, and then decide. Jim

That's what I'm trying to do here, Jim. Trying to boil the essence out of the mythic brew.

Cheers,
John

[mojo]

Safety: Learning from Incidents, Accidents & Crashes

Well the only thing I have learned from this thread is we still like to argue about hitches. The pictures and videos displayed in the posts only serve to prove that sh*t can and does happen. The last photo shows a dented trailer and TV off the road and everyone assumes it was caused by trailer sway with a Hensley. Perhaps the guy fell asleep and ran off the road causing the truck to jackknife. Who knows?

Anyway it's much less stressful rubbernecking on the web than it is on the road.

[John&Vicki]

Nope, that's too cynical for me - I'm going to defend my thread and those who have generously contributed to it as I have learned a lot here (admittedly maybe starting from a low point on the curve):

• Off-the-ball hitches, while perhaps not reaching claims made by their marketing departments, appear to be a superior technology to on-the-ball hitches due the their moving the pivot point substantially forward.
  
  
• OTB hitches don't make you bullet-proof. Sh*t still happens and stupid is as stupid does.
  
  
• Don't get cocky and increase your speed just because your setup feels solid.
  
  
• A majority of accidents are caused by improper setup.
  
  
• Sways can often be handled if you keep your head and use the correct response that you have previously practiced, i.e. brake the trailer, not the TV.
  
  
• Airstream accidents are not a frequent occurrence, but they aren't rare either.

There's more, those are the high-points. Sure there's a lot of noise in the thread, but there's also a lot of signal if you're willing to sift through it.

Cheers,
John

[J. Morgan]

Concerning PP/HA, there are two possibilities...

A. The hitches make their users trailers tow much better than their prior setups.

B. 90%+++ of these users who are vocal about their purchase are either delusional, extreme exaggerators, or liars.

[John&Vicki]

J...

There is no question that towing with a HA/PP hitch "feels" better to those using them. No question at all. At least based on what I've read here, that appears to be almost unanimous reaction. The question is: Are they better, i.e. safer - do folks towing with them have a lower incident rate per 1,000 miles driven than non-HA/PP hitches?

Cheers,
John

P.S. There have thousands of posts here on the relative pluses and minuses of various hitches and hitch technology and I'm skeptical of being able to shed more light on the topic - a lot of heat definitely, but not much light. As the OP of this thread I'm going to try and steer things away from it devolving into yet another hitch religious war.

[polarlyse]

Something that has not been mentioned is that, in my view, those that put out the money for the high end Hensley / PP hitches are likely among those towers that are on the road more than the average. Of course many above average towers are using the less costly but traditional WD distributing hitches too. Either way they are in the group that travels a lot of miles. More miles = increased opportunity for a collision no matter the cause.

So whichever hitch we use drive defensively and drive to the conditions.

[J. Morgan]

If the person buying the hitch thinks that the better towing is worth the money, isn't that enough?

Frankly I was pretty excited about how much better my trailer tows with my hitch, but it seems as if I express this here there are some folks who take offense.

I have to admit to have being caught off guard by this a couple times. I didn't expect the hostility.

Yea there is a lot of hype surrounding these hitches, but maybe the hype is deserved?

[John&Vicki]

Originally Posted by polarlyse

Something that has not been mentioned is that, in my view, those that put out the money for the high end Hensley / PP hitches are likely among those towers that are on the road more than the average.

Which, if true, is a pretty strong endorsement for HA/PP hitches.

[J. Morgan]

I consider my trailer marginally safer with my HA, to me the hitch was worth what I paid for it and more for the ease in driving alone.

There are some folks who are content to travel at 55 on the interstate, (and that is fine!), I am not one of these, never have been, doubt I ever will be.

[Foiled Again]

Please: let's not waste energy being snarky about hitches, etc. When an accident happens it happens too fast for the driver to be objective after the fact, and there are usually a dozen minor things that come together to make a "Murphy's Law Moment". 14 months after my accident and I've accepted I DO NOT KNOW WHAT ALL WENT WRONG. Driver error WAS a big part of it, more trying to get back up on the pavement than actually getting thrown/blown/pushed off of it. Damage to an axle from a previous "minor" boo-boo might have been involved too. A single moment of "acute cranial/rectal inversion" on my part? 10 or 100 little things could have happened that I never noticed until the fertilizer impacted the ventilator and my truck impacted the embankment (which was as you might remember a soft earth embankment in an area with a lot of sandstone outcrops - which might be why I am here writing this tripe!)

I will never be the same driver I was before the accident. By my choice I'm trying to be a better one, and slowing down is the most important component of that. A Hensley that came as part of the package with my new to me Airstream isn't insignificant, but it 2nd to putting a better driver behind the wheel. IMHO the best safety equipment I can add is RESPONSE TIME and ATTENTION to those around me. The Hensley is impressive... but won't fix stupid, crazy, drunk, clueless, tired or speed demon!


Still Shaking?

Shaking just every once in a while - like last week when a car pulled right out of a side road in front of me while I was towing Mr. Eddie.

I was only going 45 mph (the speed limit) on a 4 lane road where most drivers go 55 or higher. At a slight curve to the right, with no visual obstructions, I had to hit the brakes as hard as I physically could in order to stop INCHES from the side of the car that pulled out of a side road directly into my path. I couldn't tell if the driver ever looked to the left, but she was looking away from oncoming traffic when she pulled out... and only noticed me because of eight tires screeching as they laid rubber on the road! I really thought collision was inevitable and just prayed I'd be down to 5 mph when I hit.

MR EDDIE left as much rubber on the road as my F-150 did and did NOT stay 100% straight but close enough that his tail was in the same lane. I was coming around a curve so there was some inertial pull to the left. Trailer skid marks were more than 22 feet in length... though I am sure the brakes were applied for at least 5-10 feet before the heat built enough for the marks to start. I could feel the truck brakes do their "anti-skid" thing and thought that intermittent braking was going to put my truck into the other driver's lap.

And how do I know the skid marks were that long? Because the officer a few cars behind me measured them after he ticketed the other driver. He pulled around me, lights on, and was almost hit by the little idiot who caused the near wreck and then decided to haul ass! Her cell phone was still on the console with a call in progress when the officer nabbed her.

At any rate the 23 year old driver was cited for reckless driving and failure to yield... and claimed she hadn't seen me... or that I must have been going too fast. That didn't fly very well. What nearly gave me a heart attack was noticing the infant seat in the back of the small car, which fortunately was empty. I stayed at the scene because traffic was heavy enough that it wouldn't have been easy for me to pull into the left lane to pass the officer and because I was on the verge of collapse. The officer actually made the other woman pull into a driveway, took away her keys, then came back to see if I was OK. (Casper the friendly ghost probably looked flushed compared to me.) I asked to be escorted to a school parking lot nearby - where I simply parked for about 3 hours trying to push my heart out of my esophagus and back into my chest cavity.

No Depends jokes needed, but it's one of the few times I've just hated having a back door FB unit. It's a LONG walk when you slide out of the truck and feel your knees buckle.

This time what went RIGHT? Well I was going 45, I was watching that compact car almost expecting the driver to do something stupid. I'm old enough to remember when locking up your brakes was an error - but I know anti-lock brakes work just fine when you push the brake pedal through the floor. I had the gain cranked way up on the brake controller. Wind wasn't a factor. The guy immediately behind me didn't rear end me. The local constabulary was right there. No one else did anything stupid. No one rubbernecked and caused a second accident. I GOT LUCKY.

Analyzing accidents isn't a bad idea - but most of us aren't professionally trained to understand what (or what all) caused the accident. I'll take all of the help I can get from equipment and from other experienced users. Humility doesn't come easily to me, but the truth is the more I concentrate on being a good driver the more I see how careless others are, and the more I realize how... (Oh naked man in a convertible - euhhh! he's 80 and his gross hairy belly is covering - ****! Drive Paula.) (Well maybe he has khaki shorts, should I look again? - no! Drive Paula.)

Let's all be the safest drivers we can be, Paula

[John&Vicki]

Thanks very much for that informative - and entertaining - post Paula.

John

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, my trailer does just fine as it has been for the past nine years. Since I have had zero problems with my hitch, and the performance/handling of my setup has never been a problem, I find it hard to believe changing hitches would make me feel any difference at all. I think the high dollar hitches are good, but I don't need/want one. If you are a marginal driver, and your setup is marginal, this might make you feel too comfortable while towing and sooner or later something bad is going to happen.

Do any of you remember this: If, and when, you feel too comfortable or totally fearless of your motorcycle, this is when it will get you? I still believe in this. At my recent trip to DMV, for a new driver's license, I had them cancel my motorcycle endorsement. After 52 years of driving two wheeled vehicles and selling my last one, I'm done.

[John&Vicki]

Bob...

I think that was a smart thing to do. One of my closest friends has been riding motorcycles all his life. He's 70 years old now and still doing long tours. He's a great rider and a natural athlete. He's put it his bike (heavy road bike) down twice in the last two years and has luckily escaped with only broken ribs. He's a world class skier and last winter shattered his ankle requiring a rod and pins to replace. Even though his friends are pleading with him to at least slow down - he rides fast and skis fast - he's still all out. Smart guy otherwise.

I guess this is like an Aesop Fable... Moral of the story: a man has gotta know his limits (I say man because women are generally smarter than we are about this). I know a time will come when it will time for me to part with the AS.

I'll bet we all agree on one thing that keeps coming up in this thread: the biggest safety factor is that human behind the wheel.

John

[xrvr]

Scooters?! Jim

[carl2591]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Please: let's not waste energy being snarky about hitches, etc. When an accident happens it happens too fast for the driver to be objective after the fact, and there are usually a dozen minor things that come together to make a "Murphy's Law Moment". 14 months after my accident and I've accepted I DO NOT KNOW WHAT ALL WENT WRONG. Driver error WAS a big part of it, more trying to get back up on the pavement than actually getting thrown/blown/pushed off of it. Damage to an axle from a previous "minor" boo-boo might have been involved too. A single moment of "acute cranial/rectal inversion" on my part? 10 or 100 little things could have happened that I never noticed until the fertilizer impacted the ventilator and my truck impacted the embankment (which was as you might remember a soft earth embankment in an area with a lot of sandstone outcrops - which might be why I am here writing this tripe!)


Let's all be the safest drivers we can be, Paula

WOW amazing story for sure. Glad it worked out better this time for you. Maybe the girl that got the ticket will figure out you saved her and maybe the kid in the backs life..

My niece had a women run a stop sign on wed afternoon in pinehurst NC and she was unable to avoid her. Hit her in the driver side and women was pinned in car for an hour. They did a breathalyzer some 1.5 hrs after the accident and she blow a .05 which in NC is not above the limit of .08.. but she was some 30 miles from home and sitting in a hot car for hr while fireman were extracting her so at time of getting in car she was most likely drunk.

stupid people do stupid things and we have to be ready for them all..

glad you are OK.. i hear a good glass or 5 of wine is required after something like that..


edit::: no kid in back.. wheww..

[Gearheart]

When anti-lock brakes came onto the scene, the predicted reduction in crashes was never achieved because people felt safer. Feeling safer caused them to overextend their skill set and drive stupider.
I wonder if the super hitches have a similar effect. Does increased confidence lead to an acceptance of a higher level of risk i.e. driving at higher speed? The road gets narrower as you go faster. Options for avoidance are reduced.
With all the variables involved it is easy to negate the variable of a safer hitch by increasing the risk variable with higher speed.

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by Gearheart

When anti-lock brakes came onto the scene, the predicted reduction in crashes was never achieved because people felt safer. Feeling safer caused them to overextend their skill set and drive stupider.
I wonder if the super hitches have a similar effect. Does increased confidence lead to an acceptance of a higher level of risk i.e. driving at higher speed? The road gets narrower as you go faster. Options for avoidance are reduced.
With all the variables involved it is easy to negate the variable of a safer hitch by increasing the risk variable with higher speed.

I'd say yes, just look at all the I can drive 80mph with my trailer just fine comments. We got passed by guys with 3/4 tons doing at least 80mph while pulling travel trailers over the weekend. While towing on the ball with no WD!! Saw this more than once. I'm sure they were all thinking, I have this big truck. Whats the problem? Semi's do it.

But the thing is, there is never a problem, until there is a problem.

[J. Morgan]

It can be argued that antilock brakes were not really an improvement in safety, but a safety "shift".

It can be argued that generally, antilock brakes were more safe for inexperienced "casual" drivers, but LESS safe for experienced "committed" drivers.

The overall gain for some was soaked up in the average.

Now there are generations that only know antilock,,,, hmmm.

It can also be argued that there is no tangible down side to articulated hitches, so the comparison to antilock brakes is not necessarily apples to apples.