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J. Morgan · 08-18-2014, 08:43 AM

This one had some kind of W/D....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5idV2k3qX9...0/IMG_2380.JPG

Happened in Jan, sway induced accident.

http://dansairstreamtravel.blogspot.com/?m=1

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-K3WIFeLo5x...0/IMG_2391.JPG

PharmGeek · 08-18-2014, 09:13 AM

I had what we call in medicine a "near miss" back in June.

I pulled into a gas station...took what I thought was a very wide turn and let my guard down for a second, but luckily still checked back as I made the turn and got much too close for comfort to the pump barrier on my drivers side of the trailer...came about 1 foot from impact but caught myself and backed up a bit and corrected...but I remember thinking "whew, I need to be incredibly anal about always keeping my guard up entering into relatively tight spots!!"

As such, perhaps (and not necessarily) this could also be a good thread to report "near misses"...we tend to do this in the medicine field and it really helps because you learn a great deal from near misses. jcanavera is another good one obviously.

J. Morgan · 08-18-2014, 09:26 AM

As far as maneuvering accidents go all of them can be prevented by looking.

After more than thirty years experience with trailers of all sizes, I am not too proud to get out and look even multiple times.

John&Vicki · 08-18-2014, 09:32 AM

Paula believes that speed - she was going 65mph when her rollover occurred - played a big part in her accident. We all intuitively know that, but this thread prompted me to do a little research.

Speed affects things in at least three ways:

(1) It gives you less time to react as it increases.
(2) It creates a longer stopping distance as it increases.
(3) It creates a greater impact force as it increases.

The reason it's such a big factor is that the effects don't increase in a linear fashion as speed increases, they increase exponentially. We probably all remember the kinetic energy formula:

Energy = 1/2mass x velocity2

Using this calculation the speed increase is 18% and kinetic energy increases 37% - that's a big increase in the power of a crash. The squaring of velocity is the biggie.

I imagine there's an engineer or physicist on here who do the calculations for decreased reaction time and increased stopping distance at increasing speeds.

I pretty much always keep it at 55mph just because I can. It's nice to be retired and to mostly eliminate the word "urgent" from my vocabulary (I used to think RVers drove slowly because they had to - now I realize many do because they can

). I enjoy just moseying along. Things do feel fine at 65mph but a better understanding of the effects of higher speeds will strengthen my resolve to keep it at 55mph.

Poppy

John&Vicki · 08-18-2014, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

As such, perhaps (and not necessarily) this could also be a good thread to report "near misses"...we tend to do this in the medicine field and it really helps because you learn a great deal from near misses. jcanavera is another good one obviously.

Absolutely, great idea.

Poppy

J. Morgan · 08-18-2014, 09:55 AM

Sorry,,,,, I can't drive 55...

I am pretty chill at 62 or 65. Depending on road, traffic, and weather, I can be comfortable a might bit faster than that.

At 62 mph a person can get behind any number of trucks and not make a knot in traffic flow.

J. Morgan · 08-18-2014, 09:58 AM

accidents can happen for lots of reasons. This guy never saw this one coming.

http://ucmmuseum.com/airstream.htm

J. Morgan · 08-18-2014, 10:43 AM

I will say that I cant remember my trailer ever going into a sway event at 62 or below, ever. 65 and above, a few times before Hensley, after Hensley is yet to be determined.

Skater · 08-18-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

I will say that I cant remember my trailer ever going into a sway event at 62 or below, ever. 65 and above, a few times before Hensley, after Hensley is yet to be determined.

Mine did, right after I bought it. We were just accelerating to highway speeds coming off the on-ramp and someone towing a large enclosed trailer blew past at 75 mph (I would guess). At that point, 3 miles into my first tow with a trailer that large, I probably wasn't going above 50 mph. That got our trailer swaying. I had foolishly not readjusted the sway control or lifter bars after the PO said, "This is where I kept them!", so I basically had neither sway control or weight distribution. I tightened the sway at the next stop.

I was in an accident with our B190 while towing a car on a dolly. Someone had stopped along the interstate, and I saw him, but it also saw traffic flowing around him, so it was quite a surprise as I came around the bend and realized he was in fact partially in the lane, and there wasn't room for both of us. Hit the brakes, locked up the front wheels, adhered to the laws of physics and slid out of my lane, and hit his enclosed trailer square on the back. He, standing alongside the trailer, looking at his flat tire, was lucky he wasn't killed. Dumbass - there was a much safer spot to pull off just a few hundred feet ahead, and he didn't even have a spare tire anyway! I accept that I'm at least half responsible for this accident, but I think most people would agree he should bear some responsibility, too. I think something was wrong with the dolly brakes - they were working 20 miles before when we started out, but I had the gain way up. I had been planning to check them before our next trip... I received a ticket for failure to maintain lane, same as the guy that caused the rolled Airstream that prompted this thread.

Protagonist · 08-18-2014, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skater

I received a ticket for failure to maintain lane, same as the guy that caused the rolled Airstream that prompted this thread.

From the description of your accident, if you HAD "maintained lane" you still would have hit the guy because he was encroaching into your lane. Sounds like you could have fought that one, if you'd been of a mind to.

Skater · 08-18-2014, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist

From the description of your accident, if you HAD "maintained lane" you still would have hit the guy because he was encroaching into your lane. Sounds like you could have fought that one, if you'd been of a mind to.

That's my theory too, but the officer investigating didn't include that fact in the report, and the guy didn't admit to it. Wish I had video or that brake-pedal activated camera one member has. I just paid the ticket.

Also had I maintained my lane, it's likely I would have hit his trailer with a glancing blow rather than straight on, pushing it in the direction he was standing...

Jim Flower · 08-18-2014, 12:32 PM

Robert L Lorber has written an excellent book called Safety 24 /7, Building an Incident Free Culture. Although the industrial workplace is the primary beneficiary of his Ideas, the home workshop and indeed our recreational lives are or could be mightily impacted as well. It is an easy read and can have a powerful influence on the way one approaches his daily activities. Every incident is preventable. Ask any Safety Professional. Jim

Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

Protagonist · 08-18-2014, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Flower

Every incident is preventable. Ask any Safety Professional.

This is true. The problem comes in when someone else can prevent it, but you personally can't. Life is like that; sometimes the person at fault never even knows he caused an accident, and only the bystanders suffer for it.

Jim Flower · 08-18-2014, 12:54 PM

Yes Pro, and the Big difficulty is to create a culture of safety so everyone is involved in preventing an incident. Not so easy. Jim

Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

Airrogant · 08-18-2014, 01:20 PM

Speed doesn't kill. Differences in speed do. It is difficult to comprehend because it is counterintuitive. When you put 30 racers on a track at 200 mph the guy who is the danger is usually the guy driving under 180 mph. When you drive on the road at 75 mph the guy on the road going 45 mph is the danger.

When everyone is travelling at a speed within a small percentage of each other traffic flows freely and uneventfully. When someone steps on the brakes all hell can break loose.

The key to being safe on the roads of today is to travel the save speed as the traffic around you. When others speed up you should too. When others slow down you should too.

So go on and get out of the right-hand lane and live a little! If you're traveling so slowly that you need to be in the right-hand lane then I say you should hit the gas, turn on your left turn signal and do your part for road-safety!

Now how does sway play into this. I don't know. I'm not sure anyone does. Speed is likely a small factor. More critical factors probably relate to the use of the proper hitching gear, relative weights or the TV and the trailer, etc. I am hopeful that Andy will choose to pile into the discussion and help us better understand the towing-related variables.

Protagonist · 08-18-2014, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airrogant

So go on and get out of the right-hand lane and live a little! If you're traveling so slowly that you need to be in the right-hand lane then I say you should hit the gas, turn on your left turn signal and do your part for road-safety!

Airrogance, indeed! Methinks, sirrah, that thou dost live up to thy name!

My Honda owner's manual says not to flat-tow it over 65mph lest transmission damage occur. So when I'm towing my Honda behind my Airstream Interstate, I'm not going to exceed 65mph, regardless of higher posted limits. I don't tow my Honda just so I can tow it to a repair shop!

J. Morgan · 08-18-2014, 02:06 PM

Sway is most assuredly related to speed no doubt. If I towed at no more than 60 mph my Newly acquired Hensley would be largely a waste of money.

There is a sweet spot for sway, when in "tune", the time and distance the trailer moves between oscillations exasperates the situation.

It is akin to a harmonic vibration albeit with a much lower frequency.

PharmGeek · 08-18-2014, 02:20 PM

my other thread from last year covers all those talking points about speed and Ill take a quote from it from jcnavera from that thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...fe-108310.html

"I tow about 60 and most folks end up passing me. I really don't consider it unsafe since I consider myself readily observable to most folks coming up behind me. I really believe in leaving myself the ability to compensate if adversity presents itself. That's anything from having to make an evasive maneuver, being able to stop if something happens in front of me on the road, or perhaps a blown tire. You have a lot of momentum with that trailer in tow and your vehicle towing is not going to react the same as it does when you are driving it solo.

I had an 18 wheeler in front of me blow two tires. I successfully dodged the flying rubber while towing without any consequences. It scared the heck out me since I just reacted. At the time I was doing 55. I guarantee you that adding 15 mph to my speed at the time would have negated my reaction time and I would have had some considerable damage inflicted by those large hunks of the tire that that truck was peeling off."

J. Morgan · 08-18-2014, 02:30 PM

Additional speed demands additional following distance.

I hold no angst for those who choose to go 55, so long as they largely stay clear of the left lane , but when traveling at greater speed following distance is increased. So, if I am driving as I should at 65, the blown tires really are no more of an issue than one going 55.

Besides, I demand trailer brakes that work well. I wont travel without them. I was spoiled by too many years driving big trucks with excellent brakes.

If my trailer brakes aren't "just right" and aggressive, I stop and work with them until they are. I am OCD about my brakes.

John&Vicki · 08-18-2014, 03:06 PM

J...

You might be able to maintain greater distance at greater speeds in Arkansas. I wish we had that luxury here on the Left Coast, but it doesn't work that way. As soon as you leave that much distance someone fills it up. I like to stay off the Interstates as much as possible for many reasons - more relaxed driving is one of them.

Poppy