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Old 07-01-2011, 04:00 PM   #57
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I'd advise to head up to Dove Creek, stop at the Shell station/truck stop/cafe/grocery store on the west side of the road. Pick up a bag of the Anasazi beans. They are wonderful! We always have a burlap sack of Anasazi's at home. Great little place to shope for anything you might need.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:05 PM   #58
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I don't know anything about Anasazi beans, but Barb makes great beans and they don't taste 1,000 years old.

We left Cortez at 11:40—I love campgrounds with noon check outs. Sundance has a lot of trees, though none seemed to be shading our trailer. It's well kept place with a very serious attitude about anyone going over 5 mph. A guy in a jeep got yelled at for going 7 or 8. My truck idles at 10 mph.

We drove north back on Colo. 145 and stopped at Rico to take some photos. It is a typical old mining town. These places started out with tents and shacks, then more substantial buildings which soon burned down in a fire. Then the town is rebuilt of stone and a couple of groups dated around 1892 remain. The silver crash happened in 1893 and things tended to slow down unless there was gold in the hills. The main street has many gaps and behind the downtown are run down houses, empty lots and new houses. Riches in Rico now come from tourists and 2nd home owners.

Then onward to Lizard Head pass, another photo and more onward to Montrose. We stopped at the City Market to provision and Barb went to the liquor store to restock her Coronita supply. The owner brought her twelver out and started asking about Airstreams. When I told him what they cost, he was shocked. I directed him to the Forum and the classifieds. Then a couple pulled up in a Miata and came over asked me if I were CrawfordGene. I was busted. Was this the FBI? The CIA? No it was Pony Keg. We talked Airstream for a while and then I begged off needing to get home.

On the way we saw a fire north of US 50 and wondered if out house was in danger. When we turned north it appeared to be somewhere nearby and Barb called a friend who lives near us who said it seemed to be on the other side of the Smith Fork Canyon. That means we were safe. It is called the Black fire, has burned about 30 acres, probably mostly grasses and sagebrush and now that we are home is quite far northwest of us, maybe 7 or 8 miles and seems to be getting under control.

Time for dinner.

Gene
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:48 AM   #59
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Hey Gene:

Glad the house is safe!

Just wanted to send you another "plug" for your fall plans, taken from another thread. The "4CU 004 2011 Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta" thread.

"Update - we have been given 10 more spots - and 4 of them have been taken already - so we will have 100 trailers this year. Thats a 50% increase over last year. In talking to the balloon folks, we were only able to get more because they had some folks cancel - so once we have a 100, thats it - so if you are thinking about this great rally, you have one more chance. And to think our first year of doing this, we had 20 units. Being the 40th anniversary, there will be more balloons and events going on. We will be by far the largest group at balloon fiesta this year.

Gas prices are coming down, so come on out!!"

Guess I'm shameless!

Glad you enjoyed your trip!
Regards, Terry.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:26 PM   #60
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Shameless Terry, I don't know if we can pull this off being that we had planned on a 3 week trip to the coast and there's a birthday in late Sept. (father-in-law) and then the balloons. I would think we'd have to stay overnight in Alb. Sept. 29 to get there in time and there may be no CG's available there or in Santa Fe by now, and then afterwards, maybe the same problem as we would want to stay in SF for a few days as the balloons keep up all week. The calendar looks full already and we are mulling.

Is everyone in the front row? Do the early registrants get the front row and the late people are parked behind a MH? Are water and sewer services part of the registration fee?

Gene
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:42 PM   #61
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Terry, we just rearranged our plans for Sept. and signed up for the Balloons. I've asked Ken for more information on another thread and I guess there are spaces left, but will wait for a reply from him before making reservations in Alb. for the night before—I found a few spots in an Alb. CG and will reserve as soon as I am sure.

This means we won't go to see the Pacific in early Sept. as there isn't enough time to do both, but we can fit in a trip to the Montana Rockies, or Idaho, or someplace with trees and cool nights.

Gene
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:07 PM   #62
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Balloon Fiesta: we'll be there and have a reservation at Enchanted Trails RV park near the Camping World where people will assemble for caravan to Fiesta grounds.

Back to Canyons of the Ancients NM. First we went to Lowry Pueblo, about 30 miles from Cortez off of US 491. It's paved road most of the way except for dirt for a 100 yards for so once you get into the NM. The ruins are partly covered by a large pole barn to reduce deterioration. When we got there we had the whole place to ourselves. There are picnic tables and pit toilets. I would not bring a trailer in as the last part of the road is narrow. Constructed about 1060 and inhabited for about 165 years. It had about 40 rooms.

Photos:

1. The info about it shows plaster covered walls as it was originally.
2. A view of part of the ruins with the canopy or pole barn.
3. Ruins next to canopy.
4. Ruins under canopy.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:16 PM   #63
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The Great Kiva was a community room and ceremonial space. There have only been about a dozen Great Kivas discovered and this was much larger than the ones we have seen before.

1. Not having a wide angle lens, I could only get photos of parts of it. The stone figure on the floor is either a winter or summer deity. There is also a place with a raised platform to hold a pole which helped support the roof. On the other side is the other—summer or winter, they were not individually identified.
2. The opening in the wall may have been where there were stairs into the Kiva, or a ventilation hole. The Kivas we have seen elsewhere would have ventilation at the side, but this looked different and may have been an entrance.
3. After we were there a while, 2 young guys came along and we saw them doing what you are not supposed to do, walk on the walls.

Gene
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:35 PM   #64
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Sold our t@b and delivering it to Chama NM next week. Then it's time to get the AS ready for a week over at Bogan Flats between Marble and Redstone. Just got back from a road trip to Lincoln NB with the Hallmark pop top camper pulling my speedster on a flatbed trailer. The Hallmark is one of the few things ( including the AS) that exceeded my expectations when it comes to quality and design. Planning on more car events now that I have the camper.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:36 PM   #65
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One way to understand the relationships between peoples is to know something about what languages they speak and what groups those languages belong to. One large group is Athabaskan. Navajo and Apache both speak Athabaskan languages. The Navajo calls themselves Diné, The People. There are several tribes in NW Canada and NE Alaska also called Diné. When we were in Dawson City in 2006, we visited the Diné museum there and found out some Navajo had visited there several years before and told them they had the same name and many of the same words. A long lost tribe, the Naha, are subject of stories in the Northwest Territories' Nahanni NP area. Since the word Navajo is supposed to come from the Pueblo Indians, this connection is unproven and when were in the NWT we asked some people in a museum about that and they found a reference to the Naha in an old book, but knew nothing about the tribe.

Some of the Pueblo Indians of today speak variations of Tiwa and others speak Keres. Keres may be related to the Uto-Aztecan group. The Aztecs spoke a variety of Uto-Aztecan called Nahautl and some still speak it in central Mexico. Aztec legend is that they migrated from somewhere in the north and were a fierce warrior tribe. Their legends said they came south around 1100-1300 from a place with herons, possibly an island, so they may not have come from the southwest. They called themselves "Mexica" which in 16th Century Spanish—the people who wrote these words down—would have been pronounced "Mesh-ika". Later the value of "x" became like the English "h" or "j" in Spanish. The Utes have 3 reservations in Colorado and Utah, quite close to the ancestral Pueblo or Anasazi lands. Before the last century they were nomads, and don't appear to have the same traditions as the Anasazi, though there are language relationships. The Hopi, who live on reservation surrounded by the Navajo, speak a Uto-Aztecan language called Hopi. They believe they are the descendants of the Anasazi as well. Like the Pueblos to the south and east and the Anasazi, they favor square buildings while the Navajo built round ones—Hogans. My 15 minute search did not reveal much about Tiwa. It may be part of the Kiowa-Tanaon group which comes from far to the east. What did the Anasazi speak? Maybe some earlier versions of Tiwa and Keres—I could see nothing showing a relationship between them.

All these language groups overlap and things changed many times over centuries. If the Anasazi spoke both early Tiwa and Keres it is possible they were not as homogenous as usually thought, or they simply split and some adopted another language.

Some Indians moved around a lot and others were more settled and agricultural. The Anasazi were settled, the Navajo and Ute were not for many centuries. The Navajo were seen as raiders by the Pueblo villages and the Spanish conquerors. There appears to be a lot of movement from 1100-1400 with some groups migrating south and east and some moving into the southwest to fill the void.

Maybe our resident linguists, Lynn and Maria, know more about this.

Gene
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:00 PM   #66
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Painted Hand Pueblo is much smaller than Lowry and little remains. But much of this national monument has not been excavated, and when it has, often the area is backfilled to protect it and someday may be re-excavated and stabilized. There is little money for such things these days. It had about 20 rooms and instead of being on a hill like Lowry—a defensive position—is below a canyon rim. The area commands a view of the valley below and across to other hills. There may have been other communities nearby on the flatlands that could warn the resident here of any danger. About a 1/4 mile away, along the access road, there is a sign offering lots with ruins on them. The name comes from 2 white outlines of hands under a rock overhang within what was once a room. Handprints on rocks are common through the Four Corners, but most I've seen are red.

The county road to the area is paved, but the spur into here is a rutted dirt road. It had tire tracks about 4" deep and there must have been some serious rain and mud a week or two before. Unless graded, it is not for the family sedan. A primitive parking area is about a mile in and then there's a sign on the trail saying 1/4 mile to tower. A spur from the main trail has a sign, "Tower" and we followed it down some benches until we could see the tower below us. It is about 2 stories high and partly obscured by a tree. You can climb down to the tower from here, but I didn't because of old age, but trophy wife Barb did and wandered around for a while while I sat on a ledge bemoaning my arthritis, my declining body and what I used to do. Could I still scramble down 600' canyons as we did 23 years ago on our honeymoon? My young bride returned and we followed the main trail a hundred yards and it lead down to ruins—a much easier (not easy for me) way down and saw the hands, some more ruins and then the tower. We came back up the trail I had not wanted to go down because I couldn't see what it was like. My knees were unhappy, but I did it. We wondered if there were other communities across the valley and the tower was built to see them?

The next post with photos will be of Sand Canyon Pueblo.

Gene

Photos:

1. The tower from above.
2. The hands in an alcove with ruin below (not visible).
3. Ruins, possibly of anther tower.
4. The tower from below. Under the rock on which the tower was built there were one or two rooms in the alcove.
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:42 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
...Maybe our resident linguists, Lynn and Maria, know more about this. Gene
Not much more than what you wrote. (My specialization was generative approaches to acquisition, not Native American linguistics.) However, there are plenty of sources on the internet for that kind of info. Just do a search for "Native American languages."


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Old 07-03-2011, 10:57 AM   #68
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Lynn, I'm kinda wondering what "generative approaches to acquisition means", but probably don't want to know. This is probably a subject—Indian languages—that doesn't interest many people. I did see that Zuni or Zuñi is also a separate language from Keres and Tiwa. Various dialects, such as Towa and Tewa also exist. Zuni is also spelled Zuñi, the Spanish spelling, and indicates the "ñ" has been lost in English, but the word should be pronounced "Zunyi".

A lot of distinct languages are compacted into the small area of the Four Corners and the Rio Grande Valley indicating no one conquered anyone and forced language abandonment until Europeans arrived. All survive, although there may be only thousands or fewer speakers. Much interest in saving native languages has emerged in recent years.

Navajo has 180,000-200,000 speakers, but when you hear a Navajo native speaker speak English, they have virtually no accent (the only thing we can distinguish is a soft "d" which sounds almost like "th"). Navajo is a very difficult language for English speakers and when we listen to the Navajo radio station, sounds like a language that has a very long ago relationship with Chinese without so much tonal influence. If I live long enough, maybe I'll find time to study it. It has a sound and cadence that we find fascinating.

Sand Canyon is coming, but we haven't even unhitched the truck.

Gene
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:38 PM   #69
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Gene, here, go study the meaning of this famous quotation:
"A language is a dialect with an army and a navy."
Generative approaches to acquisition involve the application of linguistic theory to the logical problem posed by language acquisition.


Lynn


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Lynn, I'm kinda wondering what "generative approaches to acquisition means", but probably don't want to know. This is probably a subject—Indian languages—that doesn't interest many people. I did see that Zuni or Zuñi is also a separate language from Keres and Tiwa. Various dialects, such as Towa and Tewa also exist. Zuni is also spelled Zuñi, the Spanish spelling, and indicates the "ñ" has been lost in English, but the word should be pronounced "Zunyi".

A lot of distinct languages are compacted into the small area of the Four Corners and the Rio Grande Valley indicating no one conquered anyone and forced language abandonment until Europeans arrived. All survive, although there may be only thousands or fewer speakers. Much interest in saving native languages has emerged in recent years.

Navajo has 180,000-200,000 speakers, but when you hear a Navajo native speaker speak English, they have virtually no accent (the only thing we can distinguish is a soft "d" which sounds almost like "th"). Navajo is a very difficult language for English speakers and when we listen to the Navajo radio station, sounds like a language that has a very long ago relationship with Chinese without so much tonal influence. If I live long enough, maybe I'll find time to study it. It has a sound and cadence that we find fascinating.

Sand Canyon is coming, but we haven't even unhitched the truck.

Gene
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:19 PM   #70
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The truck got unhitched, the trailer is plugged into shore power, the TPMS sensors stored until the next trip.

Sand Canyon Pueblo had about 420 rooms, 100 kivas and 14 towers and was inhabited in the 1200's. It was in a U at the head of a canyon and had some plazas where people would work outside. A spring ran at the center of the settlement, but we couldn't see that it still ran. It may have been downhill, out of sight.

The site was partially excavated from 1983 to 1993 and then filled in to preserve it. Today what you see are mounds of rock where a long high wall on the upside of the canyon was—it may have been a defensive fortification. You can see other evidence of ruins, but towers are not visible. The trail runs from one end of the U to the other. Trees and bushes have grown throughout the settlement and make it hard to imagine what it was like.

It is likely all the surrounding trees had been cut down when the pueblo was built—woods was used to hold up roofs, provide lintels, and for cooking and heating. We have been in Cortez in November when it was in the upper teens; here it would be colder since it is higher. Lots of wood would be burned to keep warm. Today there is a dense piñon/juniper forest, but humans are known for depleting resources and this type of forest grows back very, very slowly. Once the settlement was well populated, residents would have to go further and further for wood. Once the forest is removed, the infrequent, but often torrential (and short) rains would run off fast, muddying the spring and quickly disappear instead being absorbed into the soils.

So, when you look at the photos, imagine no forest. There was a small town of mini-condos surrounding the head of the canyon with towers and plazas.

Next Rico, Lizard Head Pass and home.

Gene

Photos:

1. Taken from one end of the U towards the other end. We could see some ruins amongst the trees and maybe they can be seen on the photo, two places, center right.
2. Remains of the exterior wall.
3. More ruins.
4. Prickly pear cactus in bloom along the trail.
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