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Old 07-14-2010, 10:21 AM   #155
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Native Americans is a term that has some currency in the US, but usually only by gov't officials and others who want to be politically correct. As with most names of 2 words (see African American) most people don't use them, including in my experience, the people being described. One word is easier to say than two. People still say "janitor" rather than "sanitary engineer", perhaps not the best analogy.

Columbus landed on the island of Hispanola if my memory is correct, now the Dominican Rep. and Haiti. He did explore other places, but I'm unsure whether he ever got to Florida. Historians have long disputed whether he actually knew there was a continent between "India" and Europe. Basque and Viking sailors most likely had visited North America long before Columbus sailed west and Columbus may have heard about their voyages. To sell his voyages, Columbus had to emphasize the India connection because of the imagined riches available to those who found an easier route to there. Thus calling the Hispanolans "Indians" had some favorable consequences for further support from Spain.

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Old 07-14-2010, 09:50 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Native Americans is a term that has some currency in the US, but usually only by gov't officials and others who want to be politically correct. As with most names of 2 words (see African American) most people don't use them, including in my experience, the people being described. One word is easier to say than two. People still say "janitor" rather than "sanitary engineer", perhaps not the best analogy.
When I hear the term "Native American", I think the next phrase I will hear from the individual is going to be "born and bred in the US of A", and (s)he is person is Occidental.

OTOH, and IMHO, indigenous peoples find that the word "native" smacks of colonialism, and is demeaning.

I like Aboriginal. It sounds older'n dirt, and strong! People with tenure. Indigenous is cool too, but sounds too close to "ingenuous" to be polite.

Of course, these expressions tend to change with time, as we slowly grow more politically correct.

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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Columbus landed on the island of Hispanola if my memory is correct, now the Dominican Rep. and Haiti. He did explore other places, but I'm unsure whether he ever got to Florida. Historians have long disputed whether he actually knew there was a continent between "India" and Europe. Basque and Viking sailors most likely had visited North America long before Columbus sailed west and Columbus may have heard about their voyages. To sell his voyages, Columbus had to emphasize the India connection because of the imagined riches available to those who found an easier route to there. Thus calling the Hispanolans "Indians" had some favorable consequences for further support from Spain.

Gene
Yes, and while Chris was hanging about the Spanish West Indies, setting things up so there could be a Spanish-American war four hundred years later, there was purported to be a group of traders waiting on the shore in India, looking at their watches and saying, "Where in hell is Chris?"

And meanwhile, or about 500 years before, in or around say 1003, back at the ranch in L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland, Leif Ericson and certain of my foreflushers were playing poker, using codfish for chips.

Oh, history... Uh, why isn't it "herstory"? didn't wimmin count fer nuthin' back then?
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:40 PM   #157
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We were traveling in Oklahoma a couple years ago an stumbled across Runstone State Park where we saw an amazing Runestone which was said to be created by the Scandinavians a thousand years ago. I did a search on the internet and found this article:

The Heavener Runestone was first discovered, according to local oral history, by a Choctaw hunting party in the 1830's. Poteau Mountain, on which it located, was named by French trappers. It was part of the Indian Territory ceded to the Chactaw Nation when they were removed from Mississippi to present Oklahoma. The Choctaw were probably astonished when they saw the eight mysterious symbols punched in the mossy face of the huge slab of stone which stood in a lovely ravine, protected by overhanging cliffs. Records tell us that there was no underbrush on the mountains then; a deer could be seen for a distance under the virgin timber.

The most recent research on the runic inscription of the Heavener Runestone which stands in the State Park on Poteau Mountain near Heavener, Oklahoma, indicates that it may be four hundred years older than first thought. A former translation stated that it could be the date of November 11, 1012. It now appears that it is not a date, but a boundary marker made as early as 600 A.D. and not later than 900 A.D. It says GLOME VALLEY.

I find this real interesting because it really questions when the Americas were discovered by the explorers from Europe.

Dennis
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:07 PM   #158
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As the side debate goes on about what to call people, we might also remember that measles may have decimated the populations of the Americas and syphillis was given to Europe in return.

But I digress.

Made it to southern Alberta, need to get it together with more stuff…

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Old 07-15-2010, 09:52 PM   #159
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Tuesday. We continued south through the northern Rockies. The Rocky Mountains end in northern BC and other mountains take over the job of being beautiful. The road is not as wide as in Yukon, the brush along the road isn’t cut as often, there aren’t as many pit toilets and rest stops, and road isn’t quite as good in NE BC.

We checked out the gas prices in Muncho Lake and they were $1.79 and $1.82/liter—around $7/gallon. We continued down the road to Toad River where it was a cheap $1.35. After Toad River, we paid a different price—the rig got mud splattered. They had put some gravel on the road, but it was moxed with dirt. Since it was raining as usual, it was at least 15 miles of mud. I had hoped we were past the dirt, dust and mud of an Alaska trip, but no.

We decided to stop at Tetsa River Lodge for our first Alaska Hwy cinnamon bun. Years ago, all along the highway, “lodges” advertised the biggest cinnamon buns, but most of that is gone now. But at Tetsa River, they claim to be the cinnamon bun “centre” of the “galactic cluster”. Who could resist? We were served by an extremely obese woman who went on to tell us they weren’t very sweet. We split one and I felt my teeth were under attack by an army of sugar molecules, but it was good. That served for lunch. Gas was $1.58/liter there.

Along the highway, “lodge” means a store with gas pumps and maybe a few rooms or a motel or campground. A “resort” is one step up. All are rustic which may mean rundown. During the summer season there is always enough gas available, but it is advisable to fill up when you can. A lot of older places are closed and checking the Milepost can tell you where gas is. The Milepost always features places that have advertised and barely mentions those who have not, so you have to read it carefully.

After Ft. Nelson we saw more and more evidence of oil and gas development including a lot of trucks associated with the industry. There were roads off the highway everywhere and lots of cuts through the forest for pipelines. The road got a lot better and the mountains were more in the distance. Rolling hills and fewer rivers and creeks combined with a different forest. There was still some black spruce, but mostly taller and healthier looking trees. It is still a place of small villages.

As we approached Ft. St. John, there were some farms, something hardly seen in the north. There are supposed to be more than 50,000 people in the area, so we have reached something like civilization though there’s only one TV channel here. We are camped in an RV park without trees and that feels exposed after we left several gazillion trees behind us. It took half an hour to clean the mud off the windows, taillights and headlights.

Tomorrow we hope to get close to Edmonton. The Alaska Hwy ends at Dawson Creek, 47 miles away. There are 2 “Mile 0” markers there, a couple of blocks apart, one of the curiosities of the highway.

Gene
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:40 PM   #160
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Wednesday. The last 47 miles of the Alaska Hwy has more and more traffic as we approach Dawson Creek. There’s a lot of business in town that appears to be oriented to oil and gas development. We made the obligatory stop downtown to see “Mile 0” and drove on. Despite having left the Alaska Hwy, it’s long way to Edmonton, about 350 miles.

We are approaching the prairie, but despite the rolling hills and flat areas, they are mostly forested rather than grassland. When we do see farms, mostly they are growing canola plants out of which is produced canola oil. This means the fields are covered with yellow flowers. It’s quite a sight to see acres and acres of yellow. Besides canola, the products here are oil, gas and timber.

Soon we are in Alberta and lose another hour to Mountain Time. Traffic is heavy, but the road is better. As we approach Grande Prairie, another town of around 50,000, we decide to look for a Boston Pizza. This is a Canadian chain not to be confused with Boston Market. Unllike most restaurant chains, the food is good. We found out they are finally expanding into the US and Boston Gourmet Pizza. I have never heard of a town in Canada named Boston and don’t understand why they choose the name unless they used to sell baked beans when they started 45 years ago. The pizza was very good.

We also had 4 lane highway most of the way from before Grande Prairie, although a lot wasn’t very good pavement and quite bumpy. We’ve been in Canada about 7 times in the last 8 years, visited every province and 2 of 3 territories. There was very little 4 lane except in Ontario and from Quebec to Montreal, but it’s coming, more and more. These are mostly not US interstates—not much limited access—but it’s a change.

Although we hoped to get to Edmonton, that was unrealistic and we are in Whitecourt, 100 miles from there. The good news is that I can’t add and we are 100 miles closer to home that I thought. So the goal of reaching Ft. McLeod tomorrow stands, 97 miles from the border and the fruit police.

Thursday. Drove 400 miles to Ft. McLeod area and the Buffalo Plains RV Park, 7 miles from the highway. This is near Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump. There are a number of places where prairie Indians drove Buffalo over ledges and when the Buffalo hit the botom they were killed. There was buffalo for meat, hides and such for a long time. This name comes from a legend that an Indian boy got too close wanting to see the buffalo crash down. He was killed with his head smashed in. So, it’s not about Buffalo landing on their heads, but landing on a person. This is a well kept campground, cheaper than the ones along the highway and the only one with free wifi in the area. There’s a nice breeze though it’s been as high as the 80’s today. There are scores of wind generators to the south.

We made it through Edmonton in midday and fairly quickly. Calgary, which always seems to have it’s highways under construction, was different. Rush hour, made worse by Calgary Stampede traffic, made for a long slog through the city. Otherwise travel was fast.

From Edmonton to just south of Calgary is more of the expressway, interstate travelors are used to. But there are differences. Speed limits are a bit lower, but unlike years past, Canadians are ignoring speed limits these days, just like us. There are fewer road signs in Canada. If you miss the one sign for a road, you may not see another one. In the US, because we are so busy texting, eating, talking and sleeping, we need lots of signs. Route numbers are rare. At least in western Canada, roads have names and numbers are an afterthought. Speed limit signs are also infrequent though no one is paying attention anyway. Alberta spends little money on rest stops, about the same as Colorado. They contract out road maintenance to private contractors, but the roads aren’t much different than other places and maybe a bit worse.

The announcement by an American group suggesting no tourists visit Alberta because of environmental concerns about tar sands development in NE Alberta is big news here. From what I have read, that development has created lots of pollution and is a mess. But, I doubt the provincial government is going to change its ways since this is very big money here. Their first response is to say they will promote tourism more.

Four days to home.

Gene

Photos:

#1 Mile 0 in Dawson Creek, BC.
#2 Giant beaver at Beaver Lodge, Alberta. Yeh, it kind of looks like a bear.
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:07 AM   #161
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digression

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstalzer View Post
We were traveling in Oklahoma a couple years ago an stumbled across Runstone State Park where we saw an amazing Runestone which was said to be created by the Scandinavians a thousand years ago. I did a search on the internet and found this article:

The Heavener Runestone was first discovered, according to local oral history, by a Choctaw hunting party in the 1830's. Poteau Mountain, on which it located, was named by French trappers. It was part of the Indian Territory ceded to the Chactaw Nation when they were removed from Mississippi to present Oklahoma. The Choctaw were probably astonished when they saw the eight mysterious symbols punched in the mossy face of the huge slab of stone which stood in a lovely ravine, protected by overhanging cliffs. Records tell us that there was no underbrush on the mountains then; a deer could be seen for a distance under the virgin timber.

The most recent research on the runic inscription of the Heavener Runestone which stands in the State Park on Poteau Mountain near Heavener, Oklahoma, indicates that it may be four hundred years older than first thought. A former translation stated that it could be the date of November 11, 1012. It now appears that it is not a date, but a boundary marker made as early as 600 A.D. and not later than 900 A.D. It says GLOME VALLEY.

I find this real interesting because it really questions when the Americas were discovered by the explorers from Europe.

Dennis
This is a bit off topic, not much as y'all have strayed already , but there is a really good book by Tony Horwitz called "A Voyage Long and Strange" on the true early discoverers of America, et al. Worth a read, and he's a great writer.

Maggie
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:20 AM   #162
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Friday. We went rogue today and changed our route. We were going to go through Lethbridge and then down to I-15 at the border. It’s boring and Sweetgrass customs can be very busy. It’s a training center so you can be an experiment for a newbie.

We went directly south, avoiding busy Lethbridge, and skirting the Rocky Mountains and Glacier National Park. It’s prairie to and a bit beyond the border. This cutstoms station was bigger and much busier than we expected with a line stretching back to Canadian customs. It took at least 1/2 an hour, but the border guy was nice, even asking how we were, asked few questions (“Have they changed the color of Colorado license plates?”) and wished us a good trip. Unlike some of the border people he has enough self confidence he didn’t have to act tough to be observant. After a while we weaved through the foothills of the Rockies on a slow drive through trees and then treeless land. The Rockies are still beautiful. Then back to the prairie with mountains to the west. It became hot—80’s and eventually 94˚ as we drove through Helena back on the interstate.

We shaved 22 miles off the day’s trip by taking a more direct, but slower route. We arrived at a campground about 20 miles north of Butte called Merry Widow Spa and Campground. I had made reservations since it is Friday. The signs were confusing and no one was around, so we called them at the office we couldn’t find. A maintenance man came and told us to fill out the forms at the Rec building and stay at any site we wanted. Since I had already given them a credit card number, not sure what to do about paying. We’ll have to call them in the morning as driving up the hill to the office may mean I can’t turn around. This place has changed hands and is being fixed up, but is screwed up now. There are parking lot style sites with full hookups and back in sites among the trees that don’t seem to have full hookups. Wifi works well sometimes. It is the best place in an area of not so good campgrounds.

Tomorrow we are aiming for Pocatello, Idaho. We have gone to a restaurant there in the past we liked, but we think it may be gone. I wish we could remember the name. We could go farther, but we need a short day.

Finding the right campground can be a chore. I’ve noticed that some areas have poor ones, others have good ones. Today it looked like Helena and Butte weren’t good, Dillon was the best. But Dillon is too far. This place, in Basin, Montana, has what we need even if it is screwed up. AAA rates campgrounds, but we don’t think they do a very good job, have different standards than we do and don’t cover a lot of places. Woodalls doesn’t exactly rate campgrounds, but the word is that they make those that advertise sound better. The same company owns Trailer Life which, I believe, does rate campgrounds. Campground owners have told me that TL reps tell them they will get a better review if they advertise.

So, we rely on the internet website RV Park Reviews. The reviews can be goofy or by someone who is extremely picky, but it’s helpful. Sometimes places with nice grounds don’t matter much since we are traveling long days and stay in our trailer, so who cares what’s outside so long as it’s quiet. A railroad or a busy highway doesn’t matter much because we have the bedroom sealed off from the world and we are usually so tired, a train would have to go through the site. We have to think ahead several days because we may not always have wifi and can’t get reviews. Having a printer in the trailer is invaluable because I can print out the reviews ahead of time.

There are plenty of frustrations in finding the right campground, or sometimes, one at all. Some are good or excellent or bad, but In the end, we spend the evening in the trailer together eating, planning the next days, talking, sleeping and getting going late in the morning. It’s nice to meet people at campgrounds and talk RV or about the roads and campgrounds ahead or behind us, but mostly we inside, on our own schedule and trip. We start late, drive about 8 hours a day, and prefer it that way. People who leave at 7—how do they do it so fast? Aren’t they on vacation? Sometimes we just go away for a few days and stay someplace and that’s a nice way to do it too. But, mainly we are road warriors seeing as much of the US and Canada as we can.

Today we have used the A/C for the first time on this trip. For about six weeks the temps topped out in the 50's or 60's and went down to the 40's at night. I think those are ideal temps. The clouds and rain were a bummer, but it's been sunny for several days now, but also hot. Tonight we see the moon and a planet (not sure whether it's Jupiter or Venus) for the first time in almost two months. The sky is back.

Writing this interminable travelogue helps me remember what we’ve seen and done. And, when I’m too old to do this anymore, I’ll have this to go over and show visitors and bore them to death.

Gene
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:40 PM   #163
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Enjoyed the trip G. Welcome back to the mainland.
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:40 AM   #164
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Gene,

You might get old, but I doubt you'll ever be boring.

Thanks for the vicarious adventure.
(BTW We'd be the annoying people beside you pulling out at 0600h to get the jump on the day - hate to waste any of that vacation time sleeping... I know; it's sick. )


Have a great ride home.

- evan
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:46 PM   #165
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Saturday. The boring sameness of the souless interstate is only partially redeemed by the speed it gets you somewhere. Every town and city looks the same—same houses and condos, truck stops, signs 100’ in the air selling gas, hamburgers and sometimes “adult” entertainment (none today, but certainly we see lots of those in the Bible Belt and that’s worth some thought). Drive hundreds of miles and we feel we are in the same place.

Fortiunately southern Montana and a bit of Idaho are pretty and empty as we approach Monida Pass and then back to potatoland. We are in Pocatello and hungering for Chinese food. I don’t think we’ve had any since we found that excellent restaurant outside of Fairbanks.

Tomorrow Green River, Utah. Maybe we can find an RV place in Salt Lake and get a new screen door latch. It’s supposed to be 102˚ in Green River tomorrow. Oh, it’s Sunday and CW probably won’t be open.


Later: The Cheng Garden is like a Chinese restaurant of 30 or 40 years ago. There are even cloth hand towels on a roller in the bathrooms. Prices are low, though not quite as low as 1975. Unfortunately, the food wasn’t very good just like small town Chinese restaurants 30 or 40 years ago.

Gene

A little bit of Canada came with us from the Alaska Hwy.
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:50 PM   #166
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A little bit of Canada came with us from the Alaska Hwy.
That's beaver spit. I don't think they liked your comment on their statue, Gene...
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:06 PM   #167
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Aage, in Whitehorse there's a statue of the giant beavers that once lived there. They were 6' high (2 meters since they were Canadians) and pretty scary. That statue is well done. But now I know what was on that part of the Alaska Hwy—not mud, the beavers are fighting back.

Gene
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:07 PM   #168
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Sunday. Nothing much to report from the souless interstate except temps keep getting hotter. 97˚ in Salt Lake and Provo, cooler over Soldier Summit where we stopped to eat, and as we approach Green River, hotter and hotter. 108˚ just off I-70 and 106˚ at the KOA. Three hours later, 96˚ and 79˚ inside.

10 years ago Utah undertook massive reconstruction of the highway system to prepare for the winter Olympics. Ever since, I-15 has been under construction. It never ends. Fortunately it wasn’t so bad being a Sunday.

A post script on Boston Pizza. The US ones are Boston’s: the Gourmet Pizza. There’s been one in Grand Junction for several years and we didn’t know it. I want to stop there and see how the American version is tomorrow.

Wildlife Count, approximately:
Lynx 1
Grizzly 15
Black bear 15
Caribou 25
Wolf 7
Moose 6
Bobcat 1
Arctic Fox 3
Gyrefalcon 1
Bald Eagle lots
Golden eagles lots
Tufted Puffins 20 or 30
Wood Buffalo 30 or more
Sea otters dozens
Seals 2
Whales 0
Lots of other birds we don’t know the names of.

175 miles from home and a total of just over 10,000 when we get back. Home means fixing the mower, mowing, washing the truck and trailer, fixing broken things in trailer, changing truck oil and greasing it, reading 8 weeks of mail, sweating and wishing for fall, spraying house with wood preservative, building railing for front steps and thinking about getting away from all that work by taking a trip.

Gene
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