Protection on the road from ruffians?

[PharmGeek]

I do not pack anything...but I acknowledge that even with the best efforts of avoidance....the most unlikely and unlucky type of attack on me and/or my family is plausible...it happens to unsuspecting people in their homes every year....luckily it is a very very small number (the number cited in the article was 1 in 20,000)....

I simply do not worry much about it really....we live in a very safe country...I will for now ignore such small risks...but I cannot deny that it could happen to me....or anyone really.

With that knowledge...if I am under the sort of attack outlined in the RV gun owner article or as dznf09 layed out...I would like to have a 12 gage and the proper round to put down a violent attacker....in that hypothetical debilitation and/or death to me and /or my wife is imminent - the risk of collateral damage to bystandars at that point is less than the risk of impending harm to me....

Other alternatives used in such a terrifying hypothetical could be used, but they post risks and arguably a higher rate of failure...and even with them...they still carry legal liability perhaps not all the same, but still these devices can cause blindness, severe skin injury...if you use a bat on someone, it can obviously kill....or at least debilitate...used in that context, you would be wise to strike the head if possible to possible kill the threat...and the person could take away the bat....tasers similarly are problematic...

There is no "magic bullet" in such a hypothetical....but IF we imagine this improbable yet plausbile and occuring hypothetical to come to pass....I would rather have a gun, even with marginal aim...it offers arguable the best defense from such a violent threat.

BUT, I simply choose not to stress it...not all risks come to pass...not all risks *mandate* such insurance....it is up to the individual.

IF people plan only to stritcly have intent to use this firearm for such a rare hypothetical, then I think it is perfectly legit...

If I had a crystal ball that vaguely told me "ellery, this will happen to you within the next 10 years, cannot say when though, im too drunk to be specific"...then I would be off to prepare for said threat, including owning a firearm...likely a 12 guage...and I would practice and take a lengthy course...

But no such crystal ball exists, so people have to make the individual choice of how they wish to approach this very small risk....

Owning a gun for that very specific and very unlikely event is legit in my view..at least reasonable...

Pointing out that there are irresponsible gun owners that would operate the gun beyond this hypothetical does not have to speak for those that would not...the insistence on some in such discussions to broadly impose a straw man on all gun owners ignoring this real hypothetical which is the basis and reason, and sole situation where it would be used is slighly irritating....

Feeling a sense of insecurity or as being unsafe being parked next to a camper who has a gun on board is I think irrational fear based on our common experience in camping....as I said...I suspect most alabama campers OFTEN are packing....but almost never do they discharge their weapon...very very rarely do you hear about stray bullets from campers...why? Because so few are attacked as the hypothetical described and as such, very very few instances present themselves for the weapon to be what I say is "reasonably fired in self defense".....

Is it true that higher rates of gun ownership carries various unwanted side effects? Yes. It does appear that way. But it is futility at this point in the good ol' USA for people to wish us to have the same gun laws as say austrailia or britain because it truly is apples and organges...and resistance as such is futile...our 2nd ammendment and precendent set by the supreme court of the united states (see most recent DC vs. Heller) sets forth essentially for the life of the USA, we will be a country that affords this right to carry a pistol, rifle, shotgun for home defense with very little restrictions (like those we see in australia for example...must be a farmer with 'reason' and only for 'home defense' is not reason enough in that country)...this is iron clad at this point....

[TinShack]

See Bob's post #67.

Originally Posted by CanoeStream

This thread has significantly deviated from the above first post. Gun discussion has veered toward politics and a flame war. Few are likely to be persuaded by this turn of tone. With concurrence of the moderator team, inflammatory posts preceding my note here have been edited out. We've used up all points of gun discussion again. Take that elsewhere. Questions about that? PM me.

As the Community Rules state, "We take the 'be nice' rule VERY seriously." Posters responding to kmaggard's original question continue to be welcome.

[PharmGeek]

but to the root of the question of the OP...I think for me (and I am subject to change here)...I will keep everything reasonably locked down...I may create an environment to let would be criminals that would break in know clearly that I AM IN THE RV....I personally do not have a big dog and will not seek it out (although I like the idea IF I was a big dog lover personally...I dont want cameras personally, it would create a constant reminder that I am on the lookout and every possum and whatever else would have me freaking out....

I think on the whole, I will do little to discourage ruffians personally except keep things reasonably locked down, and if they persist to steal so be it...life goes on...and I simply hope they do not try and come into the camper that I am clearly in...for now they will get maced (or whatever kind of spray I end up choosing - whatever it is, it will be violently powerful, I dont care if it eats them alive at that point) by the wife and I...perhaps mace and a taser...

It may be a great idea to have my truck key nearby as well...to hit the panic button...also...is there a switch for an outdoor light within the bedroom...that would be nice...hear something moving around out there..flip on the lights outside....may spook em off and that be that...I probably have not yet thought of every good deterrant idea...

but, also what scares me are drunk crazy people...I mean, dont get me wrong...I like to have a few...4...5...6 drinks - but I am a happy drunk - some people get just stupid....these situations in my experience are fairly easily avoided....you can see these people coming...they are loud....and you can just steer clear...

[PharmGeek]

I suppose I really need to read the walmart parking lot thread....im pretty sure my wife would not approve of staying in a walmart parking lot...so that solves that issue for me....if I wanted to debate it, she probably would not entertain it at all...lol

[jcanavera]

I've always been a safety with numbers person, which for all intents I think puts me in a path of not being in a position that puts me at risk. That's why I don't overnight in parking lots, road side rest stops, and other camping that puts me in a situation where I'm alone.

Even when at home, we look at where we park, location and roads on which we travel, even staying alert when stopped at a traffic light at night.

I don't live in fear, but on the other side I certainly am not oblivious of the places that I put myself into. Sometimes the best way to avoid a situation is to not put yourself into one.

Jack

[srpuywa]

Probably none of you have been a victim of a carjacking - unfortunately I was a few years ago. Teenagers burglarized a house and stole a truck that just happened to breakdown close to where I was parked at a marina. They shot a hole in my windshield while I was getting ready to leave (I thought it was a rock). Then they came up to the car, ordered me in the back seat as a hostage and tried to get away down the street. I was lucky enough to get my arm out the passenger side window and flagged down the last cop car that was responding to shots fired.

In a short struggle was able to get the gun away from the kid in the back seat while the cops got the kids trying to run in the front. I had to go to the hospital with a damaged eye from getting pistol whipped.

My friends asked why I wasn't carrying at the time (I have a CCP) and don't always carry. It could happen to anyone.

At the hospital one of the police officers told me I almost got shot by the cops who were telling me to drop the gun, the reason I didn't he said because I was holding it by the barrel.

I don't advertise that I'm a NRA member, Veteran or anything that is gun related. I stay proficient as a B class IPSC shooter and teach range safety classes.

I wouldn't recommend using a handgun in a trailer for many of the reasons previously stated and a shotgun would probably not be accessable in a hurry.

I would second the NRA personal protection class for those thinking of personal protection.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

I've always been a safety with numbers person, which for all intents I think puts me in a path of not being in a position that puts me at risk. That's why I don't overnight in parking lots, road side rest stops, and other camping that puts me in a situation where I'm alone.

Even when at home, we look at where we park, location and roads on which we travel, even staying alert when stopped at a traffic light at night.

I don't live in fear, but on the other side I certainly am not oblivious of the places that I put myself into. Sometimes the best way to avoid a situation is to not put yourself into one.

Jack

Yup, FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE. Situational awareness. I don't do parking lots or rest areas either. It's about probability elimination all the way through the potential levels of threat.

[rmkrum]

..is a basic way of life. I have lived in Alabama, raised my children there and find most folks there to be honest, nice, and well-armed on the road when traveling.

It's a philosophy thing, basically. Any Alabamian is well aware that your neighbors, friends, and strangers may likely be armed with a variety of tools, and will not use them unless in fear of their lives, period--its that politeness thing again. One expects politeness and gives politeness--and politeness is defined as being nice to others and not robbing, hurting or whatever.

The politeness philosophy extends to being nice, saying sir or ma'am to your elders, and being a person of your word. Politeness does not mean getting dead drunk, tearing up the place, or shooting off guns at random. That stuff is heavily frowned upon.

That said, I must admit some of the funniest, dead earnest conversations I have ever been involved in with my Alabama neighbors, co-workers and friends have been on the subject of the "proper' weapon for self defense while traveling. Some advocate pistols, others short barrel pump shot guns, but the debate has never tended toward any reason to go traveling unarmed.

It's a politeness thing, you see...

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Bluto

It was my attempt at humor!

It was not meant to offend.

Thanks Bluto - not offended , just disturbed a bit by the content...no harm, no foul. Happy camping!

[OldVwHunters]

Over the past two days while following these posts, here in our North Missouri, Southern Iowa area, or rural farmland USA, we've had a situation play out. I'm not going to tell the whole story because unlike Pharm I can't type 346 words per minute plucking with my two fingers. Anyone interested can read all about it on kmaland.com, I'll just say that guns can do some terrible things, and very good as well. We've seen it happen here and thankfully it's over now.

[jimmini]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

I think my paranoia about guns has to do with the fact that I am used to them - I know what they can do. I mentioned before that I grew up on a farm where hunting was part of life. Granddad used to go after the boar that dug the sugar beets, and that my wife used to be a target shooter.

I don't think I've ever met anybody more paranoid about gun safety than her. To this day, she can take a fly off a branch at a hundred paces (I might be bragging a little here, but she really is good) and she still would never assume she'd be able to hit an intruder in a panicked situation.

There is the key "PANICKED SITUATION".With good training you will not panic.
Remember Capt sully going in the east river,think what would have happened if he had panicked.His good training and experience all came in to play to save the day.Do not forget the co-pilot who also did his job well.It is the same with being a good gun owner have good training and experience and all the bad thinks said here about gun owners will not happen.I will not panic and I will not shoot up you or your trailer.
Here are the rules to remember
(1)ALL guns are always loaded.
(2)NEVER let the muzzle cover anything which you are not willing to DESTROY.
(3) Keep your finger off the trigger untill your sights are on the target.
(4) ALWAYS be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
PS did you ever hear a airline Capt panic when he had a problem?Not me.
Conflict follows wrongdoing as sure as flies follow the herd.Doc Holiday

[Skater]

Originally Posted by jimmini

PS did you ever hear a airline Capt panic when he had a problem?Not me.

Check out what happened to Air France flight 447. So, yes, it does happen, though it's usually pretty rare.

Your advice is good, though - the first step to deal with any problem, be it an intruder, an idiot on the road, a blown tire, a fire in the house, or an earthquake is to NOT PANIC!

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by srpuywa

I don't advertise that I'm a NRA member, Veteran or anything that is gun related. I stay proficient as a B class IPSC shooter and teach range safety classes.

I would second the NRA personal protection class for those thinking of personal protection.

I was happy to see this suggestion and will add it to my list in Post #44 of this thread. I teach my students to avoid bumper stickers and decals that advertise that you might have a gun. This is why you won't see a USMC seal on my tow vehicle or an NRA Life Member Decal. Concealed carry should be concealed for a variety of good reasons. I enjoy teaching the Personal Protection classes because they put students into more demanding, scenario based defensive shooting situations.

[pappy19]

I always carry 3 different protection devices in order of response: Bear spray I highly recommend this one Frontiersman Bear Attack Spray with Belt Holster ), next is a good pistol (mine is a Glock 34 9mm) and lastly is a 12 ga. shotgun (mine is a Browning A-5 with a 22" barrel). I have not had to use any of the above, but I'll bet the bear spray will do the trick in most situations, and no holes in the perp or the 'stream.

Pap

[TinShack]

Originally Posted by pappy19

I always carry 3 different protection devices in order of response: Bear spray I highly recommend this one Frontiersman Bear Attack Spray with Belt Holster ), next is a good pistol (mine is a Glock 34 9mm) and lastly is a 12 ga. shotgun (mine is a Browning A-5 with a 22" barrel). I have not had to use any of the above, but I'll bet the bear spray will do the trick in most situations, and no holes in the perp or the 'stream.

Pap

I replaced my bear spray (UDAP Bear Spray and Pepper Spray Deterrent Produced by a Grizzly Bear Attack Survivor)last year because it was expired by a few years. I fired off the old canisters today (back to the wind!) and it was interesting to see the effect, even though I had done a test blast with them before. They are extremely powerful and I now know I would never fire one of these off in the confined space of my trailer. I got a few dribbles of the spray on my fingers and immediately washed and scrubbed my hands twice. A few hours later I rubbed my eye and had to flush my eye with water it burned so bad!

I have a small canister of pepper spray (Self Defense, Personal Protection, Mace, Personal Defense Pepper Spray) I keep handy for use inside the trailer if needed. My first course of action, would be the stun baton I also keep. If both of those fail, the 12 gauge is my last resort.

[sandhill3000]

Wasp spray?

Spray someone in the face with insecticide that they breathe in and they sue you for causing them to have pneumonia, poisoning them, and damaging their eyes. The last thing you want to do is spray something that will just enrage them but not incapacitate them.

Buy an aerosol spray can of CS/OC chemical agent like Freeze Plus P. It's the kind that has 1% CS (tear gas) plus 1% OC (pepper). It's non toxic and non flammable. I can assure you THAT combination is very effective. It's used in law enforcement.

[jimmini]

Originally Posted by Skater

Check out what happened to Air France flight 447. So, yes, it does happen, though it's usually pretty rare.

Your advice is good, though - the first step to deal with any problem, be it an intruder, an idiot on the road, a blown tire, a fire in the house, or an earthquake is to NOT PANIC!

I do not know they panicked since the black boxes where never recovered.It is knowen they had their hand full.
The sad part is that they never changed the type pitot tube used on the Air Bus.If that had been done the crash might never have come to pass.
I never liked any of the Air Buses and have always refused to work on them or ride on them.

[MontyV]

well just in case this thread hasn't been beaten to death I will comment. First, I will disclose that I am a Front sight first family lifetime member. I believe in guns. But I know how to use them, have been in scuffles while armed without displaying or using my weapon. One inevitable truth, if you pull the trigger your life will change. However, for me, if it comes down to my life or that of my wife, there is no question. If you are not comfortable with a gun the quickest gun to get used to is a pump action shotgun. it also has the advantage of making a universal noise that all bad guys dread. it also carries a significant impact up close, does not require particular skill to aim but will not kill someone 100' away from you.

On the less than lethal side of things, I have sailed extensively in Canada and Mexico. For these areas I carry bear spray. it is much more effective than any pepper spray or mace intended for humans. I have not found a place where it is illegal, although it must be somewhere, and it will spray over 20 feet away. mace and pepper spray intended for humans is illegal in some places. Unlike regular pepper spray it does not quickly dissipate in the air. It sticks to what it hits. It is ideal on a boat as you can spray it through vent holes in your hatch without unlocking the hatch.

[Skater]

Originally Posted by jimmini

I do not know they panicked since the black boxes where never recovered.It is knowen they had their hand full.
The sad part is that they never changed the type pitot tube used on the Air Bus.If that had been done the crash might never have come to pass.
I never liked any of the Air Buses and have always refused to work on them or ride on them.

Actually, the black boxes were recovered. It's pretty clear the one pilot kept pulling back on the stick even though the signs were that the plane was stalling and falling fast. It may not be "panic" in the sense of screaming or something, but he definitely wasn't thinking things through and didn't try anything other than "pull up".

(Sorry for the off-topic-ness.)

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by kmaggard

Reading the Wal-Mart camping thread raised another question for me. What are group members thoughts on having some sort of protection on board? Dog/gun/mace/etc?

I have never owned a gun, but have shot a couple of rifles in my life. Not too crazy about being around one. Traveling alone it is something to give thought to.

Ben has a big bark but does not use it often and once your are within a few feet he suddenly loves you. Of course we have never been in the company of someone with intent to harm, not sure what he would do then.

I would appreciate thoughts.

This thread is closed. Thanks to those of you who took the time to respond to kmaggard's questions.