Poll; Do you use the refrigerator on LPG when you're on the road ?

[jcanavera]

I know some local areas prohibit running LP devices in tunnels but I wasn't aware of state prohibitions. I'm going to check my Trailer Life directory tonight when I get home. They have a table in the front that lists each state and their specific regulations on vehicle length, brakes, chains etc. Maybe they have a column on LP operation.

Jack

[Pahaska]

It used to be listed there, but I can't find it in my 2003 directory.

If memory serves right, there is just one state, Oregon, I think, that prohibits running with propane on. besides that, there are some tunnels/bridges where propane is either prohibited or must be turned off. The tunnel at Mobile is one such place. When eastbound, I turn off the tanks at the Welcome Center and relight on the old highway near the Battleship Alabama.

[Chas]

OK,

I'm not much on polls but after reading this thread I had to vote.

I always run mine with the gas fridge on, even when filling up. Usually I'm at the diesel pumps anyhow so not much of a chance of the diesel vapors igniting. Even if I were at the gas pumps, isn't gas vapor heavier than air and thus will settle down low?

Pretty much the same idea as the building codes requiring gas water heaters in the garage and elsewhere to be installed on a minimum of a 24" platform to lessen the chance of it igniting fuel vapors.

Chas

[jcanavera]

Originally posted by Chas
Even if I were at the gas pumps, isn't gas vapor heavier than air and thus will settle down low?
Chas

Wind will stir the air so you can't guarantee that the vapor will stay on the ground. You and others around you would be much safer if you shut the fridge down when fueling.

Jack

[RoadKingMoe]

Originally posted by Chas
I always run mine with the gas fridge on, even when filling up. Usually I'm at the diesel pumps anyhow so not much of a chance of the diesel vapors igniting.

Thank you, chas. I didn't want to be the first diesel user to admit it. LOL! Besides, my frig is curbside and quite a ways back from the pumps.

[Chas]

JC,

If there was enough wind to stir the air then I am sure there wouldn't be sufficient vapors to be ignited in the first place. As it is I am much more worried about static electricity. You know the fires attributed to people getting in and out of their car while refueling. They build up enough of a static charge off the seat to ignite the fuel at the filler opening as soon as the walk back to the filler and touch the nozzle. There at the filler neck I am sure there is enough concentrated vapor to cause ignition.

Chas

[RoadKingMoe]

Gasoline vapor ignites in a very narrow range of air-fuel ratios. Generally, it's too rich to ignite in the top of the tank and filler neck, and too lean not far from it. Zapping the pump nozzle with static sometimes is right in the proper mixture to generate a "poof." The people who usually get hurt when this happens are the ones who snatch the nozzle out of the filler neck to try to save the car and spray gas everywhere.

What you really have to worry about is the guy on the other side of the pump, who's cleaning his windshield, or worse yet, going to the bathroom, when the auto shut-off on his nozzle doesn't. The puddle spreads rapidly, and since gas evaporates above MINUS 44F, that puts a good size area right in the ignition ratio zone.

Diesel pumps, nozzles, and the area around them are oily because it takes 125F or more to make it evaporate.

[Chas]

Sounds about right to me,

Have you ever heard of being able to drop a lit match into a can of gas and having it extinguished? Believe me I will never try but I have heard of crazed bikers doing it. ( I didn't say Harley riders, did I??) Guess it has everthing to do with available oxygen. There was a horrible explosion near Houston a short time ago, some teenagers were up to no good around an empty fuel storage tank and one wanted to see in the tank, so he took out his lighter to have a look. Killed himself and several of his buddies. Or, closer to home, some drug smugglers who blew themselves up modding a tank to encase their shipments. An empty tank is much more dangerous.

Chas

[Porky Pig]

Originally posted by Chas
There was a horrible explosion near Houston a short time ago, some teenagers were up to no good around an empty fuel storage tank and one wanted to see in the tank, so he took out his lighter to have a look. Killed himself and several of his buddies.
Chas

My Bonnie looked into a gas tank,
The height of its contents to see.
So she lit a match to assist her,
Please bring back my Bonnie to me!

[Chas]

Danny,

Never heard that one but sounds like some of the rhymes my old man would rattle off to me years ago. Like this>>

There once was a man from Boston,

who bought himself a nice little Austin,

room for his__________________

____________________________!!

OK, his were dirtier!

Chas

[thenewkid64]

Forrest,

I was the one who said I was "unsafe". I branded myself!

You bring up good points on possible hazardous/flammable vapors. At the same time if those types of vapors are at a high enough concentration to ignite I would think the 1500 degree catylitic coverter on every vehicle that has sat idleing in traffic would be a better trigger that a puny spark or the "open flame" in my refer compartment.

Here in Florida we have had a couple of Propane tanker accidents and the tanker could not be moved or emptied safely, so the fire department just lets it burn itself off and keeps the road and exits near the site closed to traffic. I would assume this is SOP when it comes to a flammable gas or liquid that has spilled due to an accident.

Chas, and Maurice when I had a diesel truck I would also leave the refer on while fueling, but mine was on the other side of the rig from the fuel fills. Now I turn it off, and pick the outside lane to avoid the gas fumes.

[femuse]

Part of the stuff that was lost during the recent forum crash was an article by a person who polled state patrol and insurance companies looking for refrigerator fire incidents. He found none. Apparently, all those fabled refrigerator fires are not much more than urban legends.
__________________
John Irwin

POSTED 5/27/03 & LOST IN CRASH


Article on other fire safety hazards you might not have considered
http://www.rvaa.com/articles/safe_fuel_pump.php3

Recomendation for turning off all propane appliances before fueling, did you know you need to fully open the propane valves for the excess flow valve of your tank/s to be operable?
http://www.rvaa.com/articles/propane2.php3

More fire safety for RVs and diesel vs gasoline vapor points
http://www.wbcci.org/html/body_maintenance_tips.html

Maybe a 94 dollar solution?
http://www.lslproducts.com/FOPage.html

Gasoline vapor flash point and concentrations
http://www.chemistry.ohio-state.edu/...l/firetech.htm

Gasoline heavier than air and pools in low spots as well as running along the ground to ignition sources. Diesel fuel needs above 100 degrees to even produce vapor.
http://www.eig.com/ssus/ssu9706.html
©Derek Gore / RV Roadie 1998-2002

=============

No, I did not write it. I just read it recently on the Escapees Forum. As a member there remarked: "Great post: should be required reading for all RVers using propane."

These articles are copyrighted.... "So if they just post a link to here, everything works as it was intended. ©Derek Gore / RV Roadie 1998-2002"

It's about "Running with propane on":

The author states that: "My articles ...were to present the facts to allow a rational decision for each, according to their own comfort levels and needs, to come to their own decision, without scare "fables" intruding."

I hope I am not violating that copyright law by mentioning that this article was written with help of the folks at Marshall Gas Controls (of Marshall regulator) and the Fire Marshalls of several States.

Besides, you will have links to:

_ Article on other fire safety hazards you might not have considered
_Recomendation for turning off all propane appliances before fueling....
_More fire safety for RVs and diesel vs gasoline vapor points
_Gasoline vapor flash point and concentrations
_Gasoline heavier than air.... Diesel fuel needs above.......

I strongly encourage everybody to read Traveling with propane on (fridge) revisited. Do not stop at the first posts, there is a lot more.

==============

I quit again

[Pick]

Hey don't go, come back!!

[Chas]

I quit again [/B][/QUOTE]

Chas

[Silvertwinky]

femuse,

I just want to say that I enjoy your posts and the last one you made inspired me to start a thread on "Safety Tips"

Hope to see you around more!

[SBS]

start a thread on "Safety Tips"

Great idea, Twink #2. We all agree. Go for it.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally posted by SBS

Great idea, Twink #2. We all agree. Go for it.

Twink #2!