View Poll Results: Carry a Gun, Mister~~
Own and carry a gun while traveling 55 56.70%
Do not carry a gun 22 22.68%
Thinking about carrying a gun 9 9.28%
No one should be allowed to carry a gun 11 11.34%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-13-2003, 09:11 PM   #113
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85MH325,
You hit the nail on the head, reactive vs. proactive. The smart thing for anyone to do whether they carry a gun or not is to always be in the proactive mode. I really like Col. Jeff Cooper's Color Code of Readiness/Awareness:
Condition White- not a clue, totally relaxed, unaware of surroundings (how you feel while inside the house with locked doors)
Condition Yellow- "relaxed" alertness (aware of surroundings and that a threat might occur)
Condition Orange- heightened sense of awareness that something is wrong or about to become dangerous
Condition Red- You realize and accept that a threat is now likely and may require up to a lethal response

You should always leave Condition While at the house and be alert to your surrounds which may give you clues a threat is imminent.

This is not paranoia but a contingency plan so that you do not go into what we call Condition Black- (Blind Panic where you run around like a chicken with it's head cut off, freeze or worse, fall to the ground and curl up in a ball). Simple things like parking your car while shopping after dark near the front of the store and under a light, placing your car keys in your fist in such a way to gouge out the eyes of an attacker and/or carrying mace (preferably OC/CS in the other hand.
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Old 05-13-2003, 10:25 PM   #114
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Silvertwinkie,

you are right that something bad could happen and you must take steps at that time.
I agree that you must be ready I agree with the color code from Jeff cooper but I'll relax and be at condition yellow and enjoy life.

just don't put yourself in bad situations.
when I backpack I NEVER setup my tent within 5 miles of a traveled road. that way you should never have company. its too far for the company to walk. in 12 years I only had one exception and that was a couple of 20 year olds that over extended themselves. they got my spare flashlight and water bottle.

it is now 11:30pm and there are three whitetail in my front yard
and I am taking a cup of coffee to the rocking chair on the porch of my log home and enjoy the moon and stars(God's light show).
and the wildlife.......

oh yeah glad you took the course..I shoot weekly
practice practice.....
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Old 05-13-2003, 10:29 PM   #115
 
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can you say burned out ?

There is a code you forgot "code green". Let me explain (it's a bit long):

After spending about 20 years in Philadelphia, always in the upper limit of code orange, we opted for a move: to "code green".

We lived 2 blocks north of a Project, 3 blocks south from the hippest touristy/night life trap, and surrounded by yuppies. Poverty/drugs, drunks, money & flashy habits.

We were in a business street that closed at 5 or 6pm. Then, it's was a different picture, especially on the weekend. White boys & girls from the suburbs, in search of dope, victims running south after stolen properties,.... We were stepping on dope dealers on our door step. They lived in our back yard. And, they are much worse places in Philly.

Then after 2am, it got worse: a replay of "Night of the Living Dead". We spent hours watching a the windows, following all the low lives we had started to "know". (me, often disguised as a bag lady). We were calling the police non stop: broken store windows, cars broken into, houses with broken door,...... We often were the one telling the cops were they were hidding, we knew their habits so well.

Relatively, that was not that bad. Then Mike took a partime job, at night, in a factory, in the "Philadelphia Bad Lands".

I don't think they have come up yet with a color for that code of readiness. Just step in there, and its a different world.
Mike was hired too to respond to the burglar alarm company calls at night, open the door for the cops, and try to repair the openings that were made. Sometimes 2 or 3 times a night !!!!!

After the place had a fire (caused by burglars who could not afford flash lights, and used candles), we had to do security on the place for 10 days. A memory we will "cherish" for a lifetime.
A huge old place occupying 1/2 a city block. For blocks around, everything looks bombed out.
Place stacked with shaky piles of boxes, full of hidden corners, 4 floors and a basement, no working light after the fire, expect on the 1st floor.
"They" were crawling all over the place !!!! Through the basement, through the roof,.... We had to do rounds upstairs: when in the freight elevator, more than once, you could hear them running in the dark.
The 2nd floor metal emergency exit was full of bullet holes !!!
Just to make it shorter: the type of place were cops wait for reinforcement before they decide to show up. A friend of a friend who is an anthropologist, has lived in the wildest places in the world, came to town. Our friend took her to visit the "Badlands": somewhere, running around in some jungle you will find an hysterical woman who swore she will never set foot again in Philadelphia.

As a summary, I want to say that there is a limit on the time were you can stand to live between color code orange and red. Every day and night, before you are ready to snap.
We have regaled more than one country cop, from south Jersey to Maine, to VA, with all the stories we have acumulated for a lifetime. They all tell us they enjoy very much their dull - in comparaison - life.

Where we are, in VA, someone nearly ran over our mail box: the only state cop in charge of the whole county that evening, showed up, telling us he was happy we gave him something to do.
My carjacking did not make the news in Philly: an other one was on the news that night. In perspective, that was only a spec on our life over there. No big deal.

We moved in 1996. Just reminiscing about this endless crossing pass with these low lifes, my hands are shaking.
We rarely tell those stories to people nowadays (all this was only a very small drop). But sometimes, driving through a town, we will spot activities we have become so familar with. We always know what's happening around us. 20 years is not easy to forget.

When we are home, we now live by our own "code green": we have stopped locking the vehicles in the driveway. I think we finally got the idea.

You should not have left this soap box standing there.
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Old 05-13-2003, 10:37 PM   #116
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"We have stopped locking the vehicles in the driveway"

Glad to hear you have made the change to your code green
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:53 AM   #117
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Chantal,

I was a cop in San Diego for 11years. Married, divorced, remarried and lived in a burg called Spring Valley on the edge of the barrio/ghetto in SD County. We were awakened one night by six police cars, lights & sirens going who had pursued a Nissan 280Z into a telephone pole across the street. Cops in the yard, guns waving, shouting commands to the two gang members who had stolen the Z car; members undoubtedly of the then-infamous 43rd St. Mad Drivers who stole Nissan Zcars and baited cops into chases. Anyway, this happened about 3AM right outside our bedroom window and my (then) new wife shook me to consciousness (I didn't even wake up.) I got up to mollify her and looked out the window. Saw cops with guns, police cars, a Z car, and two suspects. Said, "It's nothing, just a couple of gang members in a stolen car. Go back to sleep." And I did. Of course SHE didn't. The next morning, I realized how numb I had become to the realities of living in the big city. It wasn't too long after that we moved to NoCal north of wine country to escape. Now we're in Iowa. Condition Green most of the time.

I worked the ghetto off-and-on for a number of years. Folks who haven't had your experiences or experienced battle in the military really don't have a first-hand understanding of that kind of long-term stress. Trust me, I can relate!

You have described the conditions well and it was a wonderful commentary!
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Old 05-14-2003, 10:56 AM   #118
 
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The comments about try to act safe, are of course well valid.... but, people shouldn't get a false sense of security.

If you drive a BMW, wear jewlery, park in a dark alley, you are looking for it.
When I got car-jacked, I drove a beat-up 504 Peugeot ["it's a regular?" they couldn't drive a shift !!!], I was about 50 feet from the entrance of an all night buzzy supermarket, plenty of light..... and a security gard with a marked car about 100' away. He told the cop, he thought he saw something (gave them description of the 2nd car). And I saw them approaching. Thought I was safe. It did not looked like the "wrong" place, I did not looked like the "right" victim.

So, in the big city especially, I don't think you can be totally safe.

[PS: we "miss" the chases on our roof too. Happened at least twice]
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Old 05-14-2003, 01:10 PM   #119
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I just finished reading the entire discussion which covered a lot of important issues on the responsibilities and benefits to carrying a firearm. And apparently the majority of people taking the poll actually do travel with some sort of a personal weapon.

What I found interesting (and fortunate) is that no one mentioned having ever needed a gun while traveling in their A/S. I own several firearms but personally prefer not to travel with them. (I do keep 3-D-cell Maglite flashlights in the car and in the A/S.) Primarily, I use a preventative approach by selecting places to camp that are free of obvious "predators" and I remain vigilant even after we settle in. When we go to a new place, we always cruise through to see who is there. If I don't like the look of someone who is camping there (weirdo-drugie-alchie-homeless-just-between-terms-at-the-prison types) we just go someplace else. I realize that this may not be always practical (cross country trip, for example); but for how we use our A/S on weekend trips, it works well. We recently "passed" on the state park at Point Arena on the California coast based on our amateur profiling of the residents at the campground . . . there were a couple of camper that were clearly far removed from family values.

I also believe in not tempting others. We try to avoid being targets by keeping our stuff locked up and out of sight and our kids always in sight. We also train the kids to not engage with strangers. They know to say, "ask/tell an adult" if any stranger approaches them with any question or story.

I suspect that everyone is using some sort of similar "radar" and or preventative measures when traveling and enjoying camping. I am curious as to what you look for when you do your risk assessments and whether anyone has been fooled by an apparent benign environment. Could be useful information to share here.
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:52 PM   #120
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Exclamation Case study

mcostanzo

Quote:
I am curious as to what you look for when you do your risk assessments and whether anyone has been fooled by an apparent benign environment. Could be useful information to share here.
Case study in point would be the likes of serial killer Ted Bundy.

Your radar operates on different frequency when your defensive guard is let down. He was considered smooth talking, attractive, self-assured, and successful looking.
This may well account for the actions that led to his victims demises.

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Old 05-14-2003, 07:19 PM   #121
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Unfortunately, crooks don't have "Don't Trust Me" tattooed on their foreheads. They look just like you and me. Some wear suits and ties and use accounting to steal money. Others work as cashiers and just don't discard your credit card number after you leave. Serial rapists and murderers tend to fit into 'normal' society and live undetected for years. You drive next to them on the freeway. You shop for groceries next to them. You eat next to them at McDonalds.

Fortunately for us, they are few and far between in society so the odds of any one of us running into them are reasonably slim, thank God.

What's really interesting is the pathological psychology of those folks. If anyone is interested, I have a short psych test available that shows how truly differently serial killers thought process is from the rest of us. It's only a couple of paragraphs, but it illustrates in concrete terms how little we comprehend about those kind of people.
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Old 05-14-2003, 07:23 PM   #122
 
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I think the place where you face the most danger is actually while on the road: in case of a breakdown, especially at night.
There has been reported cases of criminals masquerading as policemen, using unmarked cars with some type of flashing lights, who pulled cars over to attack people.
Will they actually try to pull over a trailer? why not. They have to know that, in comparaison to robbing a simple car, the results may bring them more valuables.
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Old 05-14-2003, 08:45 PM   #123
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femuse,
Great information you have given. You've been there and know what it is like to be on edge. Obviously you have done something right because you are here to tell about it. Added to that, you were smart enough to get away from that type of environment and live life the way it should be lived. Isn't it sad that there are many who either feel trapped, don't know any other way of live or just don't have the money to move?

85MN325,
I'm sure many on this forum would be interested in the information. I took a prison sociology class during my undergraduate years at Vanderbilt University and at that time was a Correctional Officer. As an Associate Warden for Security at a maximum security unit for a mental health unit within Corrections in the mid '80s, the psychotic and serial killer profiles became quite interesting. The paranoid schizophrenics who were in for murder were the ones I really worried about for myself and our staff. Individuals who do not learn from their mistakes, those who feel they can never be caught and those who only do things that benefit themselves are just a few of the traits of these individuals. They will try to use you then spit you out if they get a chance.
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Old 05-14-2003, 10:07 PM   #124
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When the weather gets cold in the fall, I always start thinking of selling and moving to Florida. These Northern winters are getting tough after 48 years. But, having done research on different cities and areas, we might be better off staying put. Our area is rated a "2", and most of the areas in Florida are rated around "7" for property and personal crimes. Baghdad or femuse's Philly would be a "10+" for comparison.

As a county emergency services employee, (Radio Systems Admin.) my office is right next to the Sheriff Dept. Dispatch Center. Most calls are for rounding up loose horses and cows, gunshots in the woods, missing garbage cans, shoplifting etc. But, if a crime is committed, they almost always "get their man". I sat on a jury and the judge gave the criminal 30 days in jail, for stealing a carton of cigarettes and a package of cheese. The lawyers tried to get her out pending an appeal, and the judge said NO! The criminal spent the entire 30 days in the klink. Though it is a quiet, sleepy area, when someone screws with us, we don't let them get away with it.

So, maybe I'll just cut more firewood and stay put. I'll have to settle for a week or two down South every winter till the big "65".
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Old 05-15-2003, 10:43 AM   #125
 
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I don't know the rating of were we are, but when we "go to town", 15 miles away, "the biggest town in 7 counties", we read the weekly newspaper a the library, the crime report is real fun: "call to the police about burglar alarm. False alarm,.... Report of possible store burglary...false alarm"
Not everything is a false alarm: last year the Goodwill store had stuff stolen from the parking lot at night.
I think there has been a few convenience store robberies in the county: one case I remember, they were from NY.
The news on TV, from the "Big-big" town, were we are going today, 45 miles away, a few shootings here and there, rarely deadly, less in a month I bet than in Philly in day.
Adjusting is tough, but we are getting there.
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Old 05-18-2003, 11:39 AM   #126
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Thumbs up New gun

Pick up a new CZ-75B

My son and I went to the local firing range and, quickly got familiar with it. Loading 15 ‘9mm’ rounds in the clip can be tiresome…lol
It does seem to be very accurate for the range of 15 to 20 meters. We got into the breakdown afterwards to clean it. I was impressed in that, it is very similar to my AK-47, in the ease of breaking it down for cleaning. The gun gives the appearance of being extremely well made.
ciao
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