Packing a Gun, Mister~

[RoadKingMoe]

Originally Posted by joshua32064

Out of curiosity, do you carry a weapon while traveling? If you do, what do you carry?

John Browning was THE GOD of firearms design. Whether you believe in the knockdown power of the Colt 1911 .45 ACP or the firepower of the Browning 1935 9mm Parabellum (even though he didn't live to finish its final design), John Browning has you covered.

When it comes to pistols, there is no substitute for a single-action .45 or high-pressure (+P) single-action 9mm automatic in the hands of a skilled marksman!

That being said, I, and many others, realize that not everyone establishes and retains their skill with a handgun. Recognizing this reality, I recommend +P .38 Special loading in the Smith & Wesson Model 640 Centennial revolver, a hammerless design, that will not leave a novice facing a cocked situation, requiring pulling the trigger to decock. It's pull the trigger and fire. Same trigger pull every time. No safety to deal with. The Federal High-Power Hydra-Shok is about as good as it gets in this caliber. .357 Magnum is overkill in one of these weapons and results in so much muzzle flash, it's practially unusable.

The police forces have a compromise to deal with. Training costs money. Without precise bullet placement, the .38 Special, even in +P loading, doesn't cut it. They cannot afford the training required with the heavier recoiling .45 ACP or the more precise bullet placement required by the 9mm +P. They've eschewed the powerful but recoil-intensive FBI 10mm for the mediocre .40 cal automatic double-action pistol. They compromise with the incongruity of a first shot done double-action (long trigger pull) and subsequent shots done single-action (short trigger pull).

The question is, whether you intend to become a pistolero. If you do, you'll be best served by a Colt 1911 .45 (i.e. Black Talons) or a Browning High Power 9mm (i.e. Remington +P 115 gr loading) . If you intend not to establish and keep your skills up, the .38 Special +P loading in a S&W 640 may be the best solution for you.

BTW, those who suggest a shotgun have never shot it in a combat shotgun scenerio. There's no way it compares to a handgun in a combat situation in an Airstream, much less a residence.

[Rog0525]

Do whatever you feel necessary to prepare for armed conflict in a campground but other than the steak knives in my silverware drawer, my most powerful weapon is a flyswatter.

[summerkid]

... but you've jogged my memory this time:

When I was a cub reporter in Montana, one of my first murder stories involved one RVer shooting another to death. This happened in a quiet little campground near Canyon Ferry. Both the victim and the killer were two old men. The cause? A disagreement about a noisy generator that went from a polite request to angry words to threats to guns waving to... one man's life ending and the other one ruined.

I grew up in a family of committed hunters but have myself never carried anything more lethal than a banana peel or baseball bat, and after "Man killed over generator noise" I thought, wow, could that be me someday? I have a temper and like to drink, and I decided never to add firearms to that mix. Having an easily aroused sense of moral outrage OR a taste for alcohol OR a firearm at hand, not usually a problem. Maybe even combining hotheadedeness & guns OR alcohol and guns, still not a problem, I don't know, but I quake to think how often all three of those things are probably in evidence when you get a bunch of trailers together. And maybe the one retiree who popped the other back in Montana was stone cold sober, but I talked to him at length afterward, and rest assured that a day didn't go by the rest of his life that he didn't wish he hadn't had a gun that day ...

[Janet H]

Originally Posted by argosy20

Vegan Hot Dogs? At the risk of finding out, what are vegan hot dogs? Maybe I can slim down my arsenal by packing these instead.
Terry

A vegan hot dog is a food product (term used loosely) resembling a hot dog. It contains no fat, no meat, no dairy products, no flavor and no fun! They never seem to go bad (buyer beware of food that doesn't spoil) and when grilled take on the texture of old door gaskets.

Most folks run in horror - or just double over in pain, when offered this odd item.

Oh - yeah: ants don't like 'em either - but that's a different thread

[Navigator]

Yea, though I walk in the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I am the meanest SOB in the valley.

[summerkid]

... maybe the moral of that story is: "guns and generators don't mix" ...

you can be drunk, angry & armed, just don't go near any generators ...

[Pick]

Good points, summerkid! I was visiting another non RV forum, where they were discussing life in Florida. A poster made the comment that, "If you carry a handgun in Florida, you WILL use it." That was a scary statement to me. I have witnessed a few instances of "parking lot rage", down here, over stupid stuff. Thankfully no violence occured in these incidences.

[Rog0525]

A while back when I was living in Bushnell Florida, one old geezer shot and killed another old geezer over a parking dispute at the post office.
Gimme a belly full of beer and a 357 magnum and I just might shoot anyone who tries to park their delapidated old SOB next to my Airstream.

[Silvertwinkie]

Guns (or other weapons) don't kill people......people kill people.

My feeling is simply that the bad folks that they laws were put in place to restrict, have done next to nothing to prevent those folks from obtaining weapons. Those folks get them unlawfully. I believe that it is every person's right to have a firearm, or weapon within the law. What I can't stand are the folks that don't take responsibility and rather would find fault elsewhere.....

For example, I spill hot coffie on myself and I sue McDonald's....or I eat 3 Big Macs a week, don't do anything, get fat and sue them too for making me fat......you can go to almost any industry....firearms, tobacco, booze, etc. In this particlar case, I go nuts and kill someone innocent (unjustified) with my Desert Eagle. The person's family sues me (rightfully so), but then sues Magnum Research (the manufac). That said, I've had my gun for roughly 9 years. I've been extremely angry at times....and NEVER...I repeat....NEVER has the gun even come into my mind. I think generalizations (sp) can be dangerous here. There are those who believe just because someone can do some thing, that it goes without saying that they will do that thing....that is not the case for the vast majority of folks out there that carry or own a weapon. Of course, for every 100 folks that own a weapon responsibly, there are always a handful of screwballs that do dumb things....that shouldn't be allowed to take that right away from the folks that are responsible. What we rarely hear about (cause it's not as interesting based on what the media decides) are the times when owning a weapon has saved innocent lives. Just last year, in the town next door, they have a local law that forbids owning a firearm. The long and the short of it was that this guy was being robbed and his family was being threatened. The man shot the intruder and wounded him. The intruder then stole the guys SUV and drove himself to the hospital where he was arrested (after treatment). In the end the town did nothing to the firearm owner (outside of citing him for allowing his firearms license to lapse) because he acted responsibly and the local law (regardless of when the constitution was written---cause it hasn't been rewritten) was unconstitutional, and they knew it.

It takes responsible folks to make choices. I think the person in Summerkids example used poor judgement as I think most of us would agree. I feel it shouldn't be allowed however to condem the lot for owning, carring, transporting, etc in a lawful manner.

There are at times (as any peace officer will admit) a false sense of security....that there are police or people of authority always just around the corner. Sometime, not all times, that is simply just not the case...particularly where folks can be boondocking and say run into a bear, much less a human with ill intent. It's all about comfort level. My comfort level is to bring my weapon with me when I know that I will be far from police or help where response is not just around the corner. I keep it at home because I need some place to store it when not out and about in the north woods. However, if I were in a situation in my home and it was us or them and we had a threat, as distasteful as it would be, I would do everything within my power to stop that threat to the family in my home.... I know some might not agree, but that's what makes it so great to live in a country where we can agree to disagree and do whatever makes us happy within the law.

I suppose you can read the other thread if you haven't figured out my take so far......

[flyfisher]

Summerkid -

I better not show your post to my wife because we stay at some of those campgrounds around there! Unfortunately, I bet that quiet campground on Canyon Ferry isn't so quiet though these days, unless it's in the offseason. My wife and I stayed up at Holter Dam a couple summers ago, and had trouble hearing ourselves think at times from all the boaters and boozers.

I keep a .40 cal Glock close at hand when I travel, and was just thinking earler today about taking it with me on a fishing trip below Houser Dam this coming fall, mostly for snake protection (although I never saw a snake that I needed protection from!)

John

[Silvertwinkie]

That's a nice gun John. Very light, very accurate and very comfortable to fire.

[kposey]

Well said, Silvertwinkie. I started carrying a pistol when I was traveling a lot to Knoxville to care for my mother about 15 years ago. There was a man signalling to women driving alone that they had a flat tire so they would pull over. You can guess the end result. I have also been familiar with guns and pistols my whole life. My grandfather taught me how to use a pistol when I was a child. I can remember hunting with my father at the age of 6. When gun permits came out in Tennessee, I signed up for the course. Thought that if I was going to carry one, I should at least be legal. Thankfully, I have never had to use one. However, if put in the position of having to, I would.

[silver suz]

i dont understand> if you have to keep the gun locked up and empty of shells_ then how is it going to help you if you are woken up suddenly with someone blasting in a door or window? i"m afraid of guns (dont worry my husband tried to break me of it with lots of training)< but i know i still wouldn"t be able use one in a crisis> ( i have no idea why my "period "_ that decimal point isn"t working) i"d be afraid that i would react to pepper spray more than the person> perhaps for me< a dog is the answer> silver suz

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe

BTW, those who suggest a shotgun have never shot it in a combat shotgun scenerio. There's no way it compares to a handgun in a combat situation in an Airstream, much less a residence.

Recognizing that this WAS pretty thoroughly covered in the "packing a gun" thread... there are a couple of things, in my estimation at least, that bear repeating...

First, I don't claim to be the only person on the forums who has used a firearm when necessary as I know that there are a number of you out there who have as much or more experience than I... however, I have carried and used firearms professionally now for about thirty years. I have had 6lbs of an 8lb trigger pull taken up without remorse on many occasions, and fortunately for both me and the other fellas, they all decided it was time to quit doing whatever it was they were doing about that time.

I carry two Colt 1911 A1 .45 ACP derivatives on duty on a daily basis, and carry one of the 1911s off-duty. Everywhere, always, and without exception. They are tools required by my job. What amazes me are the number of folks who are pro-gun who have never actually given thought to the fact that they may, by possessing and/or using that gun may actually have kill or permanently maim or injure someone with it. You, if you own a gun, may take someone's life some day. You will deprive that person's mother, wife, husband, children, grandchildren and family of their company for the rest of their lives. You will, as a result of your actions, watch a person die at your hand, and you will have to live with that every waking moment of every day for the rest of your life. At the same time, I am also amazed by the naivete of the anti-gun lobby; that merely by prohibiting possession of a certain class of 'thing' that the threat of one human harming another will go away...

Many policemen who get into shootings, both on and off duty have never prepared themselves emotionally for that eventuality. They are the ones who self-destruct psychologically afterwards, lose their jobs and families and sometimes turn to substance abuse or suicide down the road.

I can't imagine some poor soul who doesn't deal with death and human tragedy on a daily basis finding themselves suddenly in such a situation.

If you feel the need to carry a firearm, make sure that you understand the circumstances under which it's use is appropriate. Don't rely on "old wives' tales" for your legal justification for shooting someone else. If you have one, and you point it at someone, make sure that the situation is appropriate for that person to die. If that's not an appropriate end to the situation, then you probably shouldn't have a gun in your hands. Bear in mind that you should never use a gun as a bluff. If you have it out, you must be prepared to use it, and use it for it's intended purpose, which is to shoot someone. Owning a firearm as a personal or home defense weapon carries an awesome responsibility.

I HAVE used a shotgun in combat situations, and having substantial training with it, am very comfortable with it in close-quarters operations. It certainly can have it's tactical drawbacks, but in my official capacity, I recommend a short-barrelled shotgun with #7 or #8 bird shot in a 2 3/4 inch shell as the weapon and ammunition of choice for home defense. That amount of lead at inside-a-room range is devastating, but the odds of it passing through the walls and injuring folks in the next room or next house are negligible. A short-barrelled shotgun, with practice, can be as maneuverable in close quarters as a handgun. You must thoroughly understand the limitations and strong points of each as a defensive weapon.

I have found over the years that folks on the wrong end of a shotgun expect that it will probably mostly cut them in half and that it will hurt a lot, and that their life, as they currently know it, will undoubtedly be over. Folks tend to comply a little more readily with a shotgun pointed at them than a handgun. With a handgun, there is always a survivability issue and before they comply, 'suspects' tend to calculate whether or not you'll actually hit them and how much it will really hurt, and whether or not they can still get away. With a shotgun, they typically just give up. BUT, again... never use a gun as a bluff.

The bottom line is: if you don't think you can end the life of another, and/or you're not prepared to be disciplined enough to be able to stay on top of the training and mental preparation required to properly handle and use a gun, then please don't have a gun.

Roger

[Silvertwinkie]

Great point Rog...well put.

Eric

[Silvertwinkie]

...and thanks Shari for merging the threads!

[mtpalms]

Edit: I am going to repeat this sentence at the beginning of my piece, because there are hotheads who will not read to the end of this post before getting mad and contradicting my opinion:

I know people who do pack a weapon, and those who don't, and that's their right.

So here' s my post:

Nope. Don't carry any firearms camping. Also, my husband was in the psych ward for 3 days last Dec. for a nervous breakdown, so now CA law prohibits him from possessing any registered firearm for 7 years. Since we wouldn't have any other kind, they are in safekeeping with a mutual friend who does this sort of thing and has the paperwork for it. So no weapons at home now either. All we ever used anyway was the shotgun with a feld load to minimze the feral pigeons every so often. Maybe I'm a fatalist, but I believe that when your time comes, there is nothing you can do about it, and you get no choice in how you go.
I'm sure neither of those men in Montana (geezerhood is relative), woke up that morning thinking 'I think I'll do something brainthumpingly foolish today' or 'this morning is the last morning I will draw breath'. Nobody in their right mind would think that way. I know people who do pack a weapon, and those who don't, and that's their right.

I don't want to hear from the folks who say, "I pack, and I'd use it, if it came to that." Well duh, that's why you carry. I want to know if anyone has ever held off a campsite marauder at gunpoint and lived to tell the tale. C'mon, one will do, two might even convince me.

I also have a question for kposey and others: if you were aware of a man signaling at women to pull over because of a flat tire, was your intent to pull over and shoot him, given the oppurtunity? Or ignore him and drive on, being a bright enough individual to know your tires are always in good condition, you check your tire pressure regularly, and you should be able to make the next rest area or gas station, even if you are riding on your rims. And bearing in mind that the odds of having a flat tire for real and being accosted by a stranger along the side of the road are infinitesimal, should we live in constant fear for our lives?

Besides, unless the weapon is in your hand at the moment it is needed (not in the glove box or the nightstand) how effective is it, really?

[BobbyW]

mtpalms;

It is not the Campsite Maurauder I am concerned with. Its the punk who tries to Jack me at the gas pump, rest area, Wal-Mart parking lot or broken down on the side of the road on the way to the campsite.

I don't live in constant fear or any fear. Why...I am armed.

Your are right about it not being useful in the night stand. When I walk out the door, it is in my waistband...always.

-BobbyW

[Silvertwinkie]

I'd carry here if it were lawful. I'd probobly get a more realistic gun to carry as my .50cal would be a bit awkward.

I'm not sure I agree totally that when your time is up, it's up. I'd like to think that in some circumstances, the gun might provide an option that for the most part would not be possible had it not been in my posession.

Of course, as has been said, to each their own.

[summerkid]

Originally Posted by BobbyW

When I walk out the door, it is in my waistband...always.

-BobbyW

I just CANNOT fathom looking around for a gun every time I walk out the door. Car keys, yes, where are they? (oh wait, they're in the ignition)... swimsuit, yep, you never know... cookies & fruit salad to drop off at my boyfriend's office, well sure, if I have the time ...

Gun? Nope, can't get my little blond head (or low-rider waistband) around that one.