View Poll Results: Carry a Gun, Mister~~
Own and carry a gun while traveling 55 56.70%
Do not carry a gun 22 22.68%
Thinking about carrying a gun 9 9.28%
No one should be allowed to carry a gun 11 11.34%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-13-2003, 10:42 AM   #99
 
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OK, now, all gun packing, gun waiving people, I have a question (same one, again):

can one of you tell me how I could have done better if I had a gun, the day I was car jacked?

Is it a topic you want to avoid?

Just repeating the old: "Yep, much safer if I have a gun" ? is not a very compelling argument. 99% of you are repeating what they read somewhere, are making up their mind about what will happen. Reality is slightly different. You can come up with statistics to prove anything you wish.

Did any of you even read what 85MH325 said ?
Quote:
while the carrying of a firearm is comforting, it is also dangerous

The last point I make is that merely the carrying of a firearm does not ensure safety....
You're better off without it.
He speaks from experience, not just out of fantasy land. And myself, even though I had only one experience, I speak of real facts, not "kids' talk".

You all sound like you are on a playground, bragging about what you will do when you grow up. I've done my growing up already.

Didn't mean to be too condescending, but that was real hard.
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Old 05-13-2003, 11:02 AM   #100
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I really can't say. My first reation, even if I had the gun holstered on my hip, would not to play Dirty Harry and simply let the purp take the car. I don't condone theft, but I also can't see killing someone over a car. It is true that your life is being threatened, however, sudden movements other than what the purp wants to see might just do the opposite of the outcome that actually did happen to you.

In my comments, I am looking at it as domicile security. If there is a break in and I fear for the lives or the saftey of my family, friends and/or myself, I believe that given the element of surprise, which would be hard to do in a carjacking, in the right conditions, could prove to be more useful in protecting my loved ones.

Again, it is a judgement call that each person that has a weapon must make.

Having the power comes with great responsibilty. Just because you can do something, does not mean in every case it is appropriate to do that thing.

Eric
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Old 05-13-2003, 11:33 AM   #101
 
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The way I see it, the 2 are really different cases:

#1_ you are on the second floor at home (tough to imagine for us ....), somebody is coming upstairs, and you are 100% sure it's not a family member, a friend, or the dog. Call the cops, and get you gun ready. You can be prepared. No effect of surprise.

#2_ you are in your car, your trailer, ..., someone points a gun in your face, you are not even sure how many people you are facing. That's a pretty different scenario.

In the #2 case, I really don't believe it's a good idea to come out blasting.
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Old 05-13-2003, 11:36 AM   #102
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Both Chantal and Eric make good points. Sometimes the best course of action is no action at all. In any critical incident, time is your best friend. Slowing things down generally defuses situations.

Tactics, planning, and thinking on your feet are far more important than hardware or physical prowess. One thing everyone who has commented on this thread has going for them is a lack of 'victim mentality', and I applaud you for that. Many, many people in our society are victims, not so much by other people as by their lack of understanding and observation of their world around them.

The first defense against being a victim is to avoid situations where you put yourself at risk. Obviously, sometimes those things happen anyway, and that's where fore-thought, planning, and keeping your head will allow you to not only survive, but potentially win. That's where 'victim mentality' has no place.

My favorite phrase is "Think tactically". It applies to driving across town, getting groceries, crossing a street, or doing practically any other routine chore. It involves knowing what your surroundings are and having a plan should things go south. It includes all facets of life.

Then again, there ARE those who believe: "If you manage to keep your head while all those around you are losing theirs, you probably don't understand what's really happening!"
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Old 05-13-2003, 01:36 PM   #103
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just a thought

I didn't vote because I am into guns and I do leave them at home.
This is good discussion with many good points brought out, but it causes me to wonder how easy it is to gain access to your trailers/motorhomes.
My motorhome has a dead bolt that is activated from the inside only. it is not easily defeated. if someone wanted in it would be through a window. at that time a softball bat would be a deadly weapon. I don't see how anyone could sleep through all that noise so there is little surprise.
touching off a round inside an aluminum can would probally do a number on you and your families hearing.
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Old 05-13-2003, 03:29 PM   #104
 
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100% with jpurdy on that one.

They do not always know how many you are in there, if you are armed, if you have dogs. And, they most certainly are not familiar with the layout. They will have to be able to open the door: it still takes my mother in law at least a minute to remember how to work the 2 doors.

Nobody is going to have time to jump you so fast so you don't have time to attack first:

that's why we carry our "bonker", better than a bat. Just go to a truck stop and get the shinny metal club truckers use to check tires. I think too that if you want to wave that in front of somebody, it does not look very friendly.

And it's 100% legal.
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Old 05-13-2003, 03:54 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by femuse
And it's 100% legal.
So are guns if they are registerd, knives, bow and arrows legal as well. If you kill someone with a club or otherwise, lethal force is still lethal force. You can, even by accident kill someone with one of those clubs.

As for the security of the doors, you all had better think again. Remember "The Rape of The SilverBell." That poor Doctor that we all felt sorry for??

They pryed his A/S motorhome door like we open a pop can. A good crowbar will make the door crack WIDE open. Remember it's an aluminum frame and skin. The door is mostly just a deterrent. If someone wants in, they WILL gain entry into any standard RV or home for that matter. In a metro area, ususally Police are nearby, however when out far away, there are few peace officers around that could get there in time. I would by no means bet the farm on that door, even with deadbolt holding more than a few minutes and I sure am not going to stand there with a club or bat.

Also, in regard discharging a weapon in an enclosed space, I would rather move the family to the bathroom of the Bambi and have it out if need be. The last thing I'm worried about is the loud noise. If someone is coming in, my family is already in grave danger. I will minimize any further risk to them as possible, but not knowing the party on the other side of the door or window or their final intentions, I may, after assessment, judge the risk of the person trying to break in greater than the risk of moving the fam into the bathroom and dealing with the issue at hand.

Keep in mind, this is a worst case senario, but as Roger said, tactical. Always keep your mind open to all that is around you and all possibilities no matter what your weapon of choice is.

I am not saying the trucker's club is a bad idea. I am also not saying the door is totally worthless. However the club is not any better or worse than any other weapon (knive, bow and arrow, firearm etc). The door is not any stronger than what it was designed for. The purpose of any weapon is to disable, discourage or terminate a course of action against you (being a lawful citizen, of course).

Just my .02

Eric
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Old 05-13-2003, 04:06 PM   #106
 
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Quote:
. However the club is not any better or worse than any other weapon (knive, bow and arrow, firearm etc)
Well,..... you shot yourself in the foot on that one.

Believe it or not, but Mike's parents were making archery equipement for a living, and he still has a lot of knowledge on the subect:

I just consulted with him:

"Anything his better than a bow and arrow for self defence. In or outside a trailer. We'll stick with the bonker"
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Old 05-13-2003, 04:22 PM   #107
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Did you say that anything is better than an bow and arrow?

I would not doubt it, but a bow and arrow can be lethal as well, so I mentioned it.

I would never use one for self defense, but some may.

As for the bonker, you gotta use what you feel is best. Me, I'm stickn' with old faithful.

Eric
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Old 05-13-2003, 04:41 PM   #108
 
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OK, I see the problem here.

What "caliber" of bow are we talking about?

Talking about 1967 vintage (Mike's last contact with bows):

they had 48" bows for hunting. Mike could shoot one like that standing in front the bed.

You cannot carry it loaded, so you have to string it first, then put an arrow in it, ready to shoot: 20s.
But, you are talking about a trained professional here. Not a mere amateur, like the ones he remembers shooting their eye out trying to do the same thing. He used to string bows 50 times a day, so your time may vary

now if you are talking about target shooting bows, they are about 70": shooting one of those in a trailer will be more of a challenge
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Old 05-13-2003, 04:51 PM   #109
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Heck, I am not pro when it comes to bows. I just mentioned them as a non firearm, still lethal weapon.

To me there are big bows and small ones, with a few in between. That is about the extent of my bow knowledge!

Cars, is a whole different story, I do know a little bit, comptuers too.

Women, I am totally lost.

Life, I keep on learnin'!

Eric
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Old 05-13-2003, 07:03 PM   #110
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Don't even kid yourself that police will be nearby, even in a metropolitan area. Response time, if lucky, may be 4-5 minutes if not more and much can happen in that time. Many of you have good points and one of them is that if they already have the draw on you, you might be better off to do what they say. However, if I sense that they are having me drive to a secluded area where they will shoot me and I will not be found until I expire then I will choose the best time to be shot where someone might see what happened and an ambulance could get to me. Sounds morbid but that is what we have been taught in our department. I have been lucky in that I have never had to shoot anyone but I have had to draw a weapon to prevent two individuals from escaping. I went by the book and was ready to shoot if I had to because that was what my job was. There was no hesitation because it was them or my job and they weren't worth me losing my job. Like Hostage Negotiation, no two situations are ever alike so you have to be prepared for anything. No one knows how you will be affected during Post Traumatic Shock Syndrome but I've taught enough classes in it that I know what the effects might be.

Bottom line is that I chose to carry a gun because I have been trained to and I have entered many a competition because I heard that it adds the stress needed to help you in a life and death situation. Makes sense to me and has helped me.

85MH325, ditto on the .45 ACP 1911s. I shoot 2 in competition and carry one for self defense when not carrying a SIG229.

femuse, I wish I could remember which well known authority taught disarming and shooting techniques from the sitting/driver's position. While I have thought about and walked through several methods that might work for me, I wanted to take the course after looking at the course content to expand my horizons.
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Old 05-13-2003, 08:14 PM   #111
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You know, I just took a police training class that the township offered. It was very interesting as plain clothed civi to realize that if something really bad happens, you are really on you own. Even in the larger metro areas, you are right, there are just so many officers per person, making it hard, then there is travel time.

I try to make the glass half full, but carry a firearm just in case!

Good post!

Eric
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Old 05-13-2003, 08:43 PM   #112
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I think that law enforcement in general has done itself and the public a huge disservice by insisting, over the years, that the public not take action on it's own behalf, but leave the bad guys to the cops. It's unrealistic, and it just doesn't work.

When you're being assaulted, unless a cop just happens to see it, you are on your own. It is up to you to deal with it, usually alone. The reality of life, whether it's walking across a street or facing down an armed crook is that your daily safety lies in your own hands.

Fortunately AND unfortunately, we have a constitution that prohibits law enforcement from taking pre-emptive measures to stop a crime before it occurs. Law enforcement, is by its very definition, a re-active pursuit rather than a pro-active pursuit.

So, we enjoy the rights of personal freedom to come and go and carry on our lives as we see fit. The problem is that people who prey on others enjoy the same freedoms until they're caught after they commit some crime. Law enforcement may suspect them of committing crimes, believe that they have committed a crime, expect that they will commit another crime, and follow them until they do but can't take action until the crime has been committed.

The best that each of us can do is to determine how we will cope individually in preparing for an eventuality that we hope will never occur. As an analogy, I guess it's like having an earthquake kit and saving bottles of water in Southern California for the earthquake everyone hopes won't happen in our lifetimes.
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