View Poll Results: Carry a Gun, Mister~~
Own and carry a gun while traveling 55 56.70%
Do not carry a gun 22 22.68%
Thinking about carrying a gun 9 9.28%
No one should be allowed to carry a gun 11 11.34%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-11-2003, 10:29 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by davidz71
You just keep believing that nothing will ever happen to you and a gun will never make the difference---I hope you never have to experience what some people have been put through.
I hope so too. Don't think I'm unaware that there are bad guys out there. My dad was a cop for many years in Portland. But still, nothing ever happened in our private lives that required use of force, and he never had cause to fire his weapon in the line of duty either. I'm just saying that the likelyhood of something happening is slim. I'm sorry to hear about your friend's experience. At least all he lost was his car. I always feel that gas stations are about the most hazardous place I visit.
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Old 05-11-2003, 11:24 PM   #86
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After you have been shot/raped/stabed/robbed/burgularized/kidnapped ect ect ect... You will look at things a little different....I can tell you that I'm not going to let happen-what happened before-happen again.....There are such things like self defence and avoiding situations and as a last resort....lethal methods to keep from becoming a victim....And I for one will always side with the victim....especially if it is a woman......geof<who lives near Cincinnati-the new crime capital of the USA>
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Old 05-12-2003, 08:26 AM   #87
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By looking at these posts, I was trying to figure out if people from the cities were more likely to be pro guns. I don't see a real patern here. We will be desagreeing for a long time.
For the record: We are not in favor of guns in RV.
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Old 05-12-2003, 09:06 AM   #88
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Wow... this is extraordinary... my two most favorite subjects: Land Use/Environment and Gun Carrying threads going simultaneously!!! I can hardly contain myself!

<soapbox on>

I have been in law enforcement all of my adult life. I have investigated innumerable homicides, shootings, stabbings, and sundry assaults of all types. In twenty-seven years of working in law enforcement, I have never used my gun off-duty although I carry it everywhere. EVERYWHERE.

I believe wholeheartedly in the unrestrained right to carry a firearm anytime anywhere. Now, having said that:

Carrying a gun on your person or in your possession carries a monumental responsibility: you are responsible for protecting that firearm at all times from falling into the hands of someone irresponsible, or worse yet someone who is bent on doing harm.

Further, while the carrying of a firearm is comforting, it is also dangerous. Keep in mind that most police officers who are shot while on duty are shot with their own guns. In my formative years as a police officer , I had two close friends who were competent policemen who were shot with their own guns. Fortunately neither was fatal, but if trained professionals can have their guns taken away and used on them, what does that say about the casual gun owner?

The last point I make is that merely the carrying of a firearm does not ensure safety. When it gets down to it, the question is this: Can you look another human being in the eyes and still pull the trigger knowing full well that you will undoubtedly kill them and then have to watch them die? If you answered 'No', hesitated in answering that question, or thought you'd carry the gun just to scare someone, you should not possess nor be carrying a gun for self-defense.

I can tell you from experience that a person who is bent on harming you will not be deterred by the mere presence of a gun or even having a gun pointing at them. If you carry it, you must be prepared to shoot it. That means you must, for the rest of your life, live with the fact that you killed another human being, no matter how vile he/she may have been. If you are unprepared to kill someone, or if you fail to use it when required, your assailant will take it and use it on you, and then probably on some other unsuspecting member of the public. You're better off without it.

Again, thanks for allowing my rants!

<soapbox off>
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Old 05-12-2003, 02:18 PM   #89
 
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Can you look another human being in the eyes and still pull the trigger knowing full well that you will undoubtedly kill them and then have to watch them die?
I trully believe that yes. Why? because I am said to be good at acting on impulse. While Mike will study every angle of every little detail for ever, I have been "there" and back. Stupid? Fearless? I think so.

Some people may have remorses brought in by misguided religious fervour, aka brain-washing [sorry, if I offend someone, that one is my favorite soap box] . I can say I am totally free of that.

Having said that: we have a shot gun in a closet in the trailer. Got it out once only in 10 years (got it for the pump action noise.)

We do not believe in carrying handguns. Even after I was car-jacked at gun point 10 years ago.

A gun would have made things worse or a best not helped at all.
2 of them approched my car and pointed a gun in my face. Fumbling for a gun could have pushed them to shoot.

What scared me was their inexperience at robbing people. 15-16 years old. One very high on something. Were passing the gun between them, did not really know what to do with it.
They had me drive, so I don't see how I could have shoot them both. Not much room to move in a car.
They were sitting on an envelop full of money I intended to deposit in an ATM. Forgot to tell them about that. I took them to an ATM to have their picture taken. Told them I could only get $200. They were so grateful of my help that they asked to kiss me thank you when they left.

If I had shot them, other problem: I did not know at the time that there was a 3rd one in a car following us. Would he have fled or gone berserk and shot me?

I can assure you that in this case, a gun would have been no help. What helped: after the first minute, I was always the one in charge. It's what counts.

I had some training years ago on self defence from police officers. I knew, theoritically, how to desarm somebody. Not while sitting in a car and 3 guys standing outside.

I forgot: I decided to use Mike's ATM card, not mine We lost only $50 in the end.
For the price, Mike has been having a ball telling and re-telling that story. Cheap entertainment. Life is sure a lot duller in VA. We adjust though.
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Old 05-12-2003, 07:10 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by 85MH325

Can you look another human being in the eyes and still pull the trigger knowing full well that you will undoubtedly kill them and then have to watch them die?

Very good points, this one in particular, I have to say, without hesitation or question. If it is a matter of me or my family or friends saftey or lives and I am within the law, I will take that person's life. I will regret it and I will think about it often, but I WILL live with it.

I would much rather carry the loss of a vile person than carry around with me the loss of a loved one because I either couldn't act or failed to act.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the yee haaa type riding off into the sunset. I am not one to run out the house whenever someone trespasses, etc. I have really wrestled with that thought ever since I bought the gun and my answer has been the same each time. It is the last resort in my book to do the unthinkable.

I have a .50cal Desert Eagle and I'm pretty darn good with it (not marksman quality). There would be little question of the person living past the event, so I do take that very seriously.

Regards,

Eric
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Old 05-12-2003, 07:18 PM   #91
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your lucky-I wasn't....and Yes I want to look them in the eye and watch them croake....geof
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Old 05-12-2003, 07:38 PM   #92
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Eric
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Old 05-12-2003, 08:00 PM   #93
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Eric... WHOA!!! a .50 cal Desert Eagle? Do you walk with a starboard list when you carry it? Do you have ammunition bearers?
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Old 05-12-2003, 08:27 PM   #94
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You get used to it. She's a real pussycat once you get used to the sonic shock wave and all!

Hell, I don't even own a chainsaw.... I just go out back and blast the tree out of the ground (of course I am totally kidding, I never bring it outside in the neighborhood AT ALL).

I get some nice groupings at the range though.....

Eric
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Old 05-12-2003, 08:34 PM   #95
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wasn't the Desert Eagle .50 known as the personal urban renewal device?

I carry two 1911 .45s. Stone reliable and more than accurate. And, for what it's worth, I AM a marksman with them. Not to brag... of course...

I confess tho... I'm scared of the .50... probably hurt myself!!!
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Old 05-12-2003, 09:00 PM   #96
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Urban renewal....perhaps in a parallel universe. I think some armies took out small villages with them....

Wouldn't happen. Being in law enforcement and with all the training and exp, the .45 is just a stones throw away from the .50. Well maybe a slight bit more than a stone throw, but you can get 300 grain bullets for it. You don't need the 325 or the 350 grains--although I highly recommend and enjoy the CCI Gold Dot 325 grain AEs. I find the MR 350s are too wild. The 325 Gold Dots are very smooth and provide a level of control you wouldn't expect. It makes the weapon very civil and refined given the above average horsepower and displacement of the weapon.

I am sure you could give me a few pointers. My friend who got me into firearms was on the Olympic training circuits. He taught me most of the basics and we go to the range a few times a month.

The biggest ouch there is about the DE is the fact that the ammo does cost about .87 on average each time you pull the trigger. So my a concern also would be...is the purp worth .87?

Eric
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Old 05-13-2003, 06:55 AM   #97
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I doubt I could teach you anything. You sound quite proficient. I stopped shooting competitively years ago. My officers have to shame me to get me to the range anymore, although I can still outshoot all of them but my rangemaster. He cheats 'cause he practices... <smile>.
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Old 05-13-2003, 07:40 AM   #98
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I noticed you're in eastern Iowa, you should come to the midwest rally if possible. It's going to be very informal. Pretty much meet, hang out, talk shop, grill and pretty much whatever the group feels like doing.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...hlight=midwest

Shouldn't be too far for you.

UPDATE:

Just got your PM...YGM(You've got mail).

Eric
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