View Poll Results: Carry a Gun, Mister~~
Own and carry a gun while traveling 55 56.70%
Do not carry a gun 22 22.68%
Thinking about carrying a gun 9 9.28%
No one should be allowed to carry a gun 11 11.34%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-12-2003, 04:20 PM   #57
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Chris,

I've always tried to make enough noise to warn the bears that I'm coming through and I would only shoot a bear as a last resort. I have never carried a firearm while hiking in the lower 48. My comment was that if I was in a remote grizzly area in Alaska, only then would I carry one.

While hiking on the Appalachian Trail, I came around a bend and there were 2 black bears feeding on a berry bush. When they saw me, they both stood up, turned their heads sideways and gave me the most curious look. I slowly started backing around the bend, quitely talking to them. Once around the bend, I started clapping my hands and waited a few minutes.
When I started back down the trail, they were gone and I sang and clapped my hands for about 2 miles. The berries were really blooming in this section and I didn't want to meet any more that day !!!

John
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Old 02-12-2003, 05:01 PM   #58
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Hey John... Would you say your singing was so bad that it scared off the bears or was it your clapping????
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Old 02-12-2003, 05:11 PM   #59
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Wayne,

It was definitely my singing!! I remember when my daughter was about 4 or 5 and we were driving some where and I was singing along with the radio. My daughter said, "Daddy, can you please stop making that noise!"

Out of the mouth of babes!!!

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Old 02-12-2003, 06:37 PM   #60
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John, I would guess that the inert ingredients would be mostly oil of some kind. The oil would spread into the nooks and crannies and mix with existing skin oil maximizing the contact with skin of the intended victim. Oil is harder to remove, than a water based substance, so the effect would last longer.
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Old 02-12-2003, 06:59 PM   #61
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Pick,

That sounds right because it says that it can shoot up to 30' for 5 seconds. Oil being heavier than water, it would hold together for a longer distance.

It also says avoid spraying into the wind. So here you are face to face with an attacking bear and you have to say, "excess me Mr Bear, put could you please move down wind !"

I bet if you splashed some of your hot sauce in someones face, they'd haul butt out of your way!!

John

p.s. do you make your own sauce or do sell them?
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Old 02-12-2003, 11:32 PM   #62
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Smile Pepper spray

You all have posted really good thoughts on pepper spray. It does have limitations. I can tell you first hand that only the oil based spray is reliable. Pick gave a good explanation why that is so. The last few years of my career I worked at Denver International Airport and we were told to never use pepper spray on board an aircraft. To do so would throughly contaminate the venvilation system and effectively ground the aircraft for a long period of decontamination. Granted Airstreams don't fly, but the effect would be similar. So, John is right. Using pepper spray in the confine of a trailer would be incapacitating to the user as well. This is most especially true if you wear contact lens. The stuff gets trapped behind the lens and produces unadulterated torment.
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Old 02-13-2003, 02:20 AM   #63
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John-music..

Hi John...
You mean U don't still sing along whilst drivin...I DO, but sometimes I 4get I are carryin my D/Ds, an start to sing my OWN words 2the songs...Oooops !!!!!....However I understand where U comin from, the trail is the one I mentioned in my last post, well MEANT to, but could'nt SPELL it, I can't even SAY it...I kn it's a L O N G hike, I would love 2 do that one day...that's where Bill Bryson went walk abt, and speaks of the BEARS...He says the first thing HE would do if a BEAR came into his tent was to....and he would'nt even have time to take his trousers DOWN, now...as for getting 2 Yr firearm...I think if U were lucky U may stand a chance...But I agree with U, as the LAST hope of protection...shoot it...that is with a SONG...U never kn, U could even end up with Yr own slot on TV..." John and his AMAZING dancing bear..." In the interest of saving the wild life...some things are best left alone...
Hope U all have a good day 2day...Chris.....
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Old 02-15-2003, 02:38 AM   #64
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Agree~!

Enjoyed reading all the comments.~

ciao
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:43 PM   #65
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Bruce,
Think what you want to think! It is a free country; however, my discussions were with an FFL dealer and custom gunsmith who had direct dealings with a police department. While I did not ask for copies of incident reports regarding the discharges, as a firearms instructor with a state agency who has contacts with other sheriff and P.D. instructors, discharges with the Glock are not rare because people do not always think. This is why the gunsmith developed the manual safety and it was adopted by several agencies according to him.

I've attended gun shows for more than 25 years and last Saturday was the first I have ever heard of a firearm discharging where they check the weapons upon entering. Everyone in the exhibit hall heard the shot. Upon entering, you draw the action/slide back and show that your weapon is not loaded and there is no magazine in the weapon (loaded or unloaded). A guy comes in, ejects the magazine and pulls the trigger while pointing the weapon toward the ground. The Glock 9 mm discharged into the tile floor. Granted, it could have been any type of weapon but the point here is that the guy was either inexperienced or had a momentary lapse of judgement. Fortunately no one was hurt and after they wrestled the weapon from his grasp, he was thrown out of the gunshow. If you wish to verify the incident, look up Bob Pope Gun Shows.com

The discharge of the Smyrna Police Officer's Glock occurred in front of one of the TN. prison system facilities. We only have the officer's story of how the weapon fell from his hand upon extraction from the gun box but the marks on the back of the slide tell the story. Would this have happened from a Glock straight from the box? Probably not but someone had installed the 3.5 lb. competition trigger and must not have done something right. The weapon was confiscated by Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, examined and then sent to Glock for additional examination. End result, Glock was off the hook because the competition trigger had been placed on a street duty weapon when instructions which come with this part do not recommend it.
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:56 PM   #66
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Sig 232

By the way Bruce, your SIG 232 is a fine weapon as was the 230 it replaced. The .380 with CorBon ammo can be a stopper and SIG has a fine reputation.
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Old 02-20-2003, 12:06 PM   #67
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Thumbs up Interesting

Highways's latest issue, March,2003, has an article that deals with this very important subject. Thanks guys, for being on the forefront of the info line by sharing your experiences`!~
The lead story starts on page 16 thru 20, under RV INSIGHT by Joe & Vicki Kieva..
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Just to clear something up..
This is the official publication of Good Sam Club
Thanks smallfry, for bring that to my attention.
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Old 02-20-2003, 05:55 PM   #68
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One last comment

Pepper Foam has shown to cause less cross contamination in enclosed as well as ventilated areas. It is like what happens when you get to the end of your shaving cream but there is more force behind the cream. It lands with a audible splatt and since it is oil based, it sticks to you. The drawback is that the range is less than stream, 8 ft. max as compared to 12 ft. with liquid stream, and individuals have been know to wipe it off and throw it back at you. Our department uses liquid stream instead of cone mist (8 ft. max distance) due to the increased distance and not wanting the pepper flakes left in the air after the carrier disapates to reach ventilation fan ducts where it can be carried through the building. Downside to stream is that you have to be more accurate and that is why each officer sprays inert agent each year during inservice. You have to pick the product that works best for your environment. Cone mist inside the trailer would not be my choice.

Lastly, I don't advocate everyone carrying a gun. I am not anti-gun by any stretch of the imagination. I was born in TX. and learned to hunt before I was a teenager. If you chose to carry one, get training and continue to train. I don't carry a sidearm everywhere I go but am licensed to do so. When I have to go through or into areas I feel that added protection could come in handy, my sidearm is with me. I sure don't go looking for trouble and if there is any way of avoiding it through any other method then I will choose that rather than a gun. There are some antisocial people in this world, who by their nature do not learn from their previous mistakes and who have no regard for someone elses life. This type of person is bent on making you a casualty because he feels that he can get away with it (and probably has). This is a worse case scenario and that is how many of us have been trained. A can of mace, a baseball bat, a growling dog, an ASP baton (with certification) may be just the deterrant you are looking for. For the worst of these bad guys, they are no deterrant at all. These are the guys I worry about so my feelings are "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it."
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Old 03-07-2003, 12:15 AM   #69
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Take lesson from disarming of...

I know this is slightly out of 'A/S' context but,...interesting thread to tie into the main subject.
web addy:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opi...m24feb24.story
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Old 03-07-2003, 07:58 AM   #70
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Nice article.

Not to get all soap box like, but.....

In the U.S., it's a constitutional right to have one. I know why it was included in the constitution and frankly times have changed from when that document was written.

However, I am a big believer that a person has the right to choose their own way (within reason, that's why juroys are of our peers and not law enforcement officers or government employees). To that end, they can pry my .50cal Desert Eagle from my cold dead hand if they want it take it away just to take it away.

I would agree, that if I acted irresponsibly or have a background that suggests I ought not to have it, I might grump about it, but for most law abiding citizens, there should be no reason they should not be allowed to have a gun. The criminals have them and will regardless of what is done.

Having visited Austin, Texas a few years ago from the somewhat conservitive midwest, it took some time getting comfortable seeing the Texans packing heat in normal everyday life as they walked down the street. I would be really interested in seeing/hearing how it has effected crime.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those NRA folks that stands on top of the mountain top at the top of my lungs, nor am I an extremeist. I'm just an average Joe that works hard, and abides by all laws, except for Speed Limit and seat belt laws. Although in Wisconsin, I am almost temped to start....a 16MPH over the 65mph limit (not pulling a trailer) is about $267.00. OUCH!



Regards,

Eric
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