Packing a Gun, Mister~

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by fastrob

My condolences to the families of the victims.
This tragedy occured in a 'gun free' zone.
As the father of 3 teens how does one prepare the family for violence like this?
We talk about what happened.
Does anyone think this is going to happen again?
I am afraid that this is just the beginning.
God have mercy on us.

R

Yes it will happen again it always happens again. This kid was in his own zone and laws and life had no meaning to him.

I have a 13 year old and I will tell you how I have protected him from guns, not crazy people with guns. My wife, my son, and myself have all gone through the CC course and a defensive shooting course. My son is too young to have a CCL and my wife will not carry but both know what I will do if I am faced with a situation that I have to use a weapon, we have had the same training at the same time. My son knows how to handle, shoot, and secure a weapon properly. My son knows that when one of his friends sneaks a gun out what to do and is not interested enough it to touch it as he has his own which I control access to.

I live in New Orleans; you just have to watch the news to know what we are facing in this area. The criminal and crazy do not abide by the same laws you and I do. It is my duty to protect my family to the best of my ability and I will.

Thanks Jim

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by fastrob

My condolences to the families of the victims.
This tragedy occured in a 'gun free' zone.
As the father of 3 teens how does one prepare the family for violence like this?
We talk about what happened.
Does anyone think this is going to happen again?
I am afraid that this is just the beginning.
God have mercy on us.

R

Rob, I suppose the best preperation is making sure your kids (and you) know that it is not a perfect world and bad things which cannot be justified happen. Supporting one another in tough times like this goes a long way in the face of senseless violence.You can take some comfort from the actual facts* and not what the media suggests is the case. The facts: school violence and violence committed by young males is, and has been for an extended period of time on the DECLINE in the US. There are cases of violence yes. They stick out because they are amplified in the media. Will sad cases occur again? No doubt they will. But the truth is, they are rare and on the decline.


* Disclosure: Nerd hat on- I teach statistics and psychology. A major theme in my classes centers on why we fear what we do. Because events like this are so emotionally charged they stick in our memory. By contrast, the vast number of days in which there are no school shootings do not. By our nature we overestimate the risk of school violence. Another example, many people fear flying and terrorism. In order for the year-long risk of dying in a plane crash to equal that of dying in a vehicle crash; an additional 50 planes would have had to been hijacked and destroyed on 911. Yet we tend to fear flying and terrorism and discount the daily danger of driving or riding in a vehicle. This is for the same reasons I mentioned above. We frequently drive with no ill effect, but safe plane trips never reach our awareness (unless you are on the plane) and when we hear of a crash the event is emotionally laden. Nerd hat off

[85MH325]

School shootings are not a new or recent phenomenon (although the frequency may be increasing). Here is a list of school massacres that begins in 1764:

• Enoch Brown school massacre - Franklin County, Pennsylvania, United States; July 26, 1764
• Bath School disaster - Bath, Michigan, United States; May 18, 1927
• Poe Elementary School Attack - Houston, Texas, United States; September 15, 1959
• Cologne School Massacre - Cologne, Germany; June 11, 1964
• University of Texas at Austin Tower Massacre - Austin, Texas, United States; August 1, 1966
• Avivim school bus massacre, Israel by Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP); 1970
• Ma'alot massacre, Israel by DFLP (see [2]); 1974
• California State University, Fullerton Library Massacre - Fullerton, California, United States; July 12, 1976
• École Polytechnique Massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 1989
• Stockton Massacre - Stockton, California, United States, 1989
• University of Iowa shooting - Iowa City, Iowa, United States; 1991
• Concordia University massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; August 24, 1992
• Dunblane massacre - Dunblane, Scotland, United Kingdom; March 13, 1996
• Sanaa massacre - Sanaa, Yemen; 1997
• Pearl High School shooting, Pearl, Mississippi, United States; October 1, 1997
• Heath High School shooting, West Paducah, Kentucky, United States; December 1 1997
• Jonesboro massacre - Craighead County (near Jonesboro), Arkansas, United States; March 24, 1998
• Columbine High School massacre - Jefferson County (near Denver and Littleton), Colorado, United States; April 20, 1999
• Osaka school massacre - Ikeda, Japan; 2001
• Erfurt massacre - Erfurt, Germany; 2002
• Beslan school hostage crisis - Beslan, Russia; 2004
• Red Lake High School massacre - Red Lake, Minnesota, United States; 2005
• Dawson College shooting - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 2006
• Amish school shooting - Nickel Mines, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, United States; 2006

Roger

[cooperhawk]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

School shootings are not a new or recent phenomenon (although the frequency may be increasing).

• Cologne School Massacre - Cologne, Germany; June 11, 1964
• Avivim school bus massacre, Israel by Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP); 1970
• Ma'alot massacre, Israel by DFLP (see [2]); 1974
• École Polytechnique Massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 1989
• Concordia University massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; August 24, 1992
• Dunblane massacre - Dunblane, Scotland, United Kingdom; March 13, 1996
• Sanaa massacre - Sanaa, Yemen; 1997
• Osaka school massacre - Ikeda, Japan; 2001
• Erfurt massacre - Erfurt, Germany; 2002
• Beslan school hostage crisis - Beslan, Russia; 2004
• Red Lake High School massacre - Red Lake, Minnesota, United States; 2005
• Dawson College shooting - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 2006

Roger

I noticed that you included school shootings from all over the world. Believe me, I abhore violence of any kind. Including the verbal and mental violence that is visited on victims for expressing differing opinions.

Now, once we eliminate all of these, going back to 1764 doesn't yeild that many. I did leave the Red Lake Minnesota school shooting in for a reason. There was a school guard on the campus. He was UNARMED! What good it that??? The shooter gained access to the weapons from a law officer as well.

You might also notice that many of the ones still listed were terrorist atrocities. I believe that these should be considered differently.

Not being arbitrary. Just trying to be objective.

[Beginner]

Ever think about the other side of the coin?
Every state in the union except maybe Vermont guarentees that no one in a public school will be able to shoot back. What better place for an unbalanced individual to go to murder people for what ever reason.
Just this last legislative session the Virginia Legislature denied the population of our colleges (teachers included) the right to carry a weapon concealed even if the person(over 21, passed a safety course, proven proficency with the firearm) has a valid concealed weapon permit.
On October 16, 1991 a deranged individual drove his vehicle into a cafateria in Killeen Texas and killed 23 people and wounded 20.
On December 18, 1991 three armed men entered a resturant in Anniston Alabama. The patrons and staff were ordered into the cooler. One of the patrons did not go. He shot and killed one of the fellons, wounded another and the third one ran.
One firearm in the hands of a responsible individual individual made all the difference.
The police of every town in this country does not have the responsibility to protect individuals, just the public at large.
For those who believe no one should have firearms, there are two countries where firearms are only in the hands of the Police and Military and you already speak the language. England and Australia. Just keep in mind that when those laws took effect, personal violence esclated and continues to increase and it will. Why? Because the right of the population has had the right to defend its self against the criminal element.
SO
Either you take the responsibility for your own safety or be a lamb waiting.
By the way, two more things:
1. Of all the concealed weapons issued in the United States less than 2% have been recended for what ever reason.
2. The NRA does not, nor has it ever maintened that every one in this country should have a firearm, but that the decision to have one should be up to the individual, and having passed scrutiny.
Beginner

[thecatsandi]

I could not agree more. In the area of my property and where I will eventually live you have to defand yourself and then call the police and let them clean up the mess. Closest Police station 30 miles.
Very unlikely I will ever face this though.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by cooperhawk

I noticed that you included school shootings from all over the world.

Not being arbitrary. Just trying to be objective.

Actually, I wanted to show that this isn't a uniquely American phenomenon, nor is it unique to our current society. They're all terrorist incidents. Some of them are done for political reasons, some done because the shooter was deranged; but they are all done with the idea of spreading terror: and unfortunately, it's effective.

Roger

[Over59]

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

The more you read about the VT shooter the more you realize it is not the gun laws, which are the problem. The University knew that Cho Seung-hi was a problem. Out of class of 70 only 7 showed up to attend a class he was enrolled in because of his behavior. One Professor had a code word to use to have her assistant call for help if needed when he was present. It sounds as the policies and laws governing the campus are the problem.

Thanks Jim

It looks like the VA psych system also dropped the ball in 2005. I don't know if VA has laws that allow medicating someone against their will or not. Some states do, some don't. Clearly this was a very troubled soul and no one helped him. Prehaps the laws would not allow it, prehaps it would have been too much trouble, prehaps they were just too afraid and didn't want to upset him. In any case respecting his rights cost others their lives.

That he was able to buy a hand gun 18 months after a court ordered eval is stunning.

[vswingfield]

While not want to go back to the "Wild-Wild West", I am told that even among people who had little formal etiquette training, manners have never been better. I don’t advocate resorting to violence of any kind over an insult, but the possibility of everyone doing it is a sobering influence.

Seriously, if you ever do need one for self-defense, it is a poor time to shop.

[cooperhawk]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

Actually, I wanted to show that this isn't a uniquely American phenomenon, nor is it unique to our current society. They're all terrorist incidents. Some of them are done for political reasons, some done because the shooter was deranged; but they are all done with the idea of spreading terror: and unfortunately, it's effective.

Roger

I certainly agree Roger. I am a permit holder, but I am selective where I carry a gun. At a town meeting where I might get angry, I do NOT. Not that I don't trust myself, I do. I am just very catious.

Actually, I have been told that certain individuals were nicer to me because they thought I was armed, and I was not, but they didn't know. It does have an effect.

Someone said that bullets should cost thosands of dollars each. that would make people think first. Well, if you do shoot someone, or just discharge the weapon in some circumstance, you will spend more than that in legal fees protecting yourself even if you were justified.

[dmreilly10000]

Originally Posted by summerkid

Being one room away from an exit, our classroom plan of action was to just get out of the building if necessary.

Sure beats having all 3,500 students at my college armed & ready to shoot.

I have absolutely no patience with people who oppose gun control.
__________________

I'm sure that was the same type of attitude of most people in the South during the Civil Rights struggle. The had absolutely no patience with people who wanted to recognize African-Americans' civil rights.

Gun ownership and the right of self defense ARE civil rights! You want to deny us these rights!

It is naive to believe that the left in this country wants only "common sense gun control". Their ultimate goal is to disarm everyone and outlaw possession of all guns. This is how they can have absolute control of the people. Just look back at legislation proposed (and some passed) in Congress during the last 30 years.

Virginia Tech was a "gun free zone". I hope you noticed that the campus police (and local police) did not protect anyone. They never engaged the killer. They showed up after it was all over and safe to enter the building. The same thing happened at Columbine HS. I would much rather be around law-abiding citizens carrying concealed weapons than be absolutely and totally defenseless like those poor students were.

I would never even consider going camping without a firearm. If the gun laws prevent me from legally being armed, then I find some other place where I can be armed. I would like to bring my Airstream to Arkansas, it is a beautiful state, but in the wisdom of their legislature, they will not recognize my state's concealed weapons permit. By By Arkansas. Tennesee is also a beautiful state that does recognize my permit and would appreciate my money spent on vacation.

And oh, by the way, what if that door you had planned to exit was chained and locked like the doors at Virginia Tech?

[dmreilly10000]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

School shootings are not a new or recent phenomenon (although the frequency may be increasing). Here is a list of school massacres that begins in 1764:

• Enoch Brown school massacre - Franklin County, Pennsylvania, United States; July 26, 1764
• Bath School disaster - Bath, Michigan, United States; May 18, 1927
• Poe Elementary School Attack - Houston, Texas, United States; September 15, 1959
• Cologne School Massacre - Cologne, Germany; June 11, 1964
• University of Texas at Austin Tower Massacre - Austin, Texas, United States; August 1, 1966
• Avivim school bus massacre, Israel by Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP); 1970
• Ma'alot massacre, Israel by DFLP (see [2]); 1974
• California State University, Fullerton Library Massacre - Fullerton, California, United States; July 12, 1976
• École Polytechnique Massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 1989
• Stockton Massacre - Stockton, California, United States, 1989
• University of Iowa shooting - Iowa City, Iowa, United States; 1991
• Concordia University massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; August 24, 1992
• Dunblane massacre - Dunblane, Scotland, United Kingdom; March 13, 1996
• Sanaa massacre - Sanaa, Yemen; 1997
• Pearl High School shooting, Pearl, Mississippi, United States; October 1, 1997
• Heath High School shooting, West Paducah, Kentucky, United States; December 1 1997
• Jonesboro massacre - Craighead County (near Jonesboro), Arkansas, United States; March 24, 1998
• Columbine High School massacre - Jefferson County (near Denver and Littleton), Colorado, United States; April 20, 1999
• Osaka school massacre - Ikeda, Japan; 2001
• Erfurt massacre - Erfurt, Germany; 2002
• Beslan school hostage crisis - Beslan, Russia; 2004
• Red Lake High School massacre - Red Lake, Minnesota, United States; 2005
• Dawson College shooting - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 2006
• Amish school shooting - Nickel Mines, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, United States; 2006

Roger

Great list. Thanks. Click on Pearl High School. It is about 5 miles as the crow flies from where I am sitting right now. Here is something interesting:

"Woodham drove his mother's car to his high school, wearing a long coat to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he began firing rampantly, killing his ex-girlfriend Christina Menefee and her friend Lydia Dew, and wounding 7 others before Joel Myrick, the assistant principal, retrieved a pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham. When Myrick asked Woodham of his motive, he replied "Life has wronged me, sir"."

Since it is illegal here in Mississppi to have a gun in your car on school property (OK if you are just picking up a student), this principal parked his truck off campus and had to run about 1/4 of a mile each way to retrieve his gun. If he was allowed to have it on campus, he may have been able to stop the carnage even earlier. It was speculated that Woodham was heading to Pearl Junior High to settle the score there when Myrick stopped him.

I think this is pretty good evidence that schools should not be "gun free zones", or as I like to call them "potential shooting galleries".

[summerkid]

reilly, as stated before, i don't have the patience to bother with you.

TWO MORE MEMBERS to go before the magic 20,000!

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by summerkid

I have absolutely no patience with people who oppose gun control.

I share your feeling, I have no patience with people who support gun control.

Thanks Jim

[fastrob]

I must be confused.

Gun control is having quick safe access, holding a steady firm grip and a well placed shot into a proper target.
2 gun safes for the Airstream?
Shhhh, that is secret.
The wife is a better shot than me. Heck, the kids are better shots than me. I'm just ugly like the dogs.

R

[razorback]

[quote=dmreilly10000] ........I would like to bring my Airstream to Arkansas, it is a beautiful state, but in the wisdom of their legislature, they will not recognize my state's concealed weapons permit. By By Arkansas. Tennesee is also a beautiful state that does recognize my permit and would appreciate my money spent on vacation.............
quote]

According to the current Arkansas State Police website ( Arkansas State Police | Regulatory Services ), Arkansas currently honors a CWP from Mississippi and 27 other states. Please reconsider bypassing Arkansas, as you will be missing some beautiful country.

After retiring with 33 years in LE and having seen the worst that humanity can dish out, I would not venture anywhere without a weapon within reach. Over the years I have seen more than a few instances where a firearm prevented an assault, or worse.

The one that still sticks in my mind after 23 years is the call we had of a nurse on her way to the hospital becoming the object of a sexual attack. She was on her way to her 11pm hospital shift when just outside of town (no streetlights) smoke started pouring out from under her car hood. (broken radiator hose) She pulled over and raised the hood. A male in a pickup pulled over in front of her vehicle in the darkness and walked back, she thought, to help her. Instead, he pushed her on her back across her front seat, getting on top of her. As he was trying to remove assorted clothing, she reached into her purse on the passenger side floor and pulled out a PPK 380. She managed to get a leg under the assailant and as she kicked him out the driver's door, she emptied the magazine at him. When we got to the scene, she was shaking, but unhurt. The assailant and his veh were long gone. We never found him, but had she not taken the responsibility for her own well being, we would have at least a rape, or worst case scenerio, a missing person, likely deceased. At least this incident had a happy ending. Just one incident I distinctly remember.

Its not being paranoid, just prepared. The passage of HR 218 making nationwide concealed carry availabe to active and retired police officers takes the uncertainty out of where and where not to carry. At least for some of us. I would like to see a nationwide CWP law in the same manner.

As stated in earlier posts: Its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. If you run across me somewhere out in our big country, you will never know I am carrying.

Sorry to dig up an old thread from the graveyard, but I didn't want anyone from Mississippi to miss out on seeing the Natural State because of misinformation.

Weapon of choice: Glock 29 10mm

As an old school cop once told me: "If I ever have to shoot someone, I don't want to hear them say "ouch!" I want to see them fall over and their eyes roll back in their head!"

(NRA Police Firearms Instructor, NRA Life Member)

Also, I don't remember who posted it, but they couldn't be more right when they stated the litigation following a shoot will be your worst nightmare.

Just my .02's worth. Happy travels.

[ZoominC6]

AMEN Razorback!

It would be a shame to miss your beautiful state and a shame not to be able to protect yourself should the need ever arise.

Dick
NRA Lifetime

"Live free or die"
"Victory or death"

[craftsman]

Here's what I just bought. Came in to my gun dealer on Saturday. Now have to wait the madatory 8 days before I can take it home. .45 long Colt, that's enough stopping power.

[jkcru]

If you truely need a defensive weapon, not an ego trip, go Shotgun, # 6, 2 00 buck,3 slugs.

[dudebb]

Hi jkcru,
I agree, but unless you're wearing a longcoat, it's a bit hard to conceal! Great in the house weapon.