View Poll Results: Carry a Gun, Mister~~
Own and carry a gun while traveling 55 56.70%
Do not carry a gun 22 22.68%
Thinking about carrying a gun 9 9.28%
No one should be allowed to carry a gun 11 11.34%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-26-2004, 07:45 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by argosy20
or maybe a snack food from Star Wars.
Terry
Terry... weren't the Vegans that race of bounty hunters in Star Wars?

Roger
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Old 04-26-2004, 10:54 PM   #184
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Can you spell paranoia??

Enjoy youselves and your weapons needed to make you comfortable. I think Americans are too stupid to justify the Second Ammendment to the constitution. Death and maiming statistics by firearms are a national disgrace.

If you need 'em to go out of your house, good luck - I think you have a problem.

Don't bother with the spam - I have no intention of conversion here - just my 2 cents worth. We will never see eye to eye.

Let's deal with trailers.

Mark
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Old 04-27-2004, 07:03 AM   #185
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Interesting take Mark. I don't think Americans are too stupid to justify the 2nd. I've never tried to justify it. I just partake in the choice it gives me.

....but as it's been said, we all won't agree on the subject.
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Old 04-27-2004, 08:39 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Wiltrakis
Can you spell paranoia??

Enjoy youselves and your weapons needed to make you comfortable. I think Americans are too stupid to justify the Second Ammendment to the constitution. Death and maiming statistics by firearms are a national disgrace.

If you need 'em to go out of your house, good luck - I think you have a problem.

Mark
Mark, this is a legitimate discussion that affects everyone who subscribes here. I think your position is a little one-dimensional. If everyone believed the way you do, we'd live in Utopia. Unfortunately, they don't and we don't.

Auto deaths, drug deaths, and suicides are also a national disgrace; unfortunately we're not seeing any rush to ban cars, promote stiffer licensing requirements, or increases in drug treatment or mental health dollars spent. I see those as much more significant issues than gun control.

Give this some thought: the fourth, fifth, and sixth amendments to the Constitution largely prohibit the government from protecting you from your fellow citizens for what they might do; and therefore in fact, during the commission of a crime unless an agent of the government happens to catch the offender in the act. As much as we in law enforcement tell our citizenry that we will protect you, most crime prevention is actually prohibited by law. That's what all the current debate regarding the renewal of the Patriot Act is about: particularly warrantless breaches of the fourth and sixth amendments. Many, many years ago the Supreme Court ruled that the government has no duty to protect any particular individual from "criminals or madmen" (quoting the Court).

It follows then logically that we are responsible for our own safety and welfare and for protecting ourselves from "criminals or madmen" until they have consummated whatever crime they choose. THEN their constitutional protections kick in, but law enforcement can then investigate until their guilt can be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Not that guns specifically are a panacea for all of the ills of society, but it has been my experience that "criminals and madmen" tend not to target folks who are capable of defending themselves.

Fortunately or unfortunately, our society's choice of defensive measure for the past two hundred years have come from the factories of Colt's Patent Firearms and Mssrs. Smith and Wesson.

Quite frankly, I'd prefer Utopia myself, but the realities of our world are significantly different. Although I have been listed as a 'victim' of assault on countless police reports over the years, I have yet to lose to a "criminal or madman", nor do I intend to.

Roger
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:06 AM   #187
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I tell ya whut ....

.... I kinda wish no one would carry a gun, but I'll listen with rapt attention all day long to guys TALKIN' about what they're packin'. All that bragging about size and style & what they'd do to whom--and HOW!--flat-out entrances me. The reliable maleness of men, yow, that just makes my world go round.
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:18 AM   #188
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Mark sez:
Let's deal with trailers.

There are MANY forums on AirstreamForums.com that deal with trailers, and one called "Off-Topic" for the discussion of other issues, such as this.

Some Americans appear to be too stupid to realize this.
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:18 AM   #189
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You know, although the subject here seems to be fairly male heavy, I know several females that also like to go to the range and peel off a few rounds. Some even have guns of their own.

I think it's fairly wrong to assume that females don't enjoy a bunch of things that at one time were mostly seen as a guy thing. I know several woman for example that could tear down an engine block and rebuild it...far exceeding my own skill set!

I think as time goes on, the lines of what was once male dominated areas of interest get blurred as I find myself that women in general feel more empowered than they did even as recently as the 80s. Of course, that just my .03
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:20 AM   #190
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According to the poll results, 56% of forum members pack a gun for self defense. I am still waiting to hear from at least one of you who has been in a position (as a civilian - in the line of duty is a whole 'nother matter) to use that weapon for protection. You needn't have fired it, or even brandished it, just felt the security of having it there when someone has threatened you. C.mon, folks, for all this fierce talk. Nobody?

No one has tried to rob you when you were filling your tanks up in a strange neighborhood? No one has camped next to you, gotten drunk, and physically or even verbally, attempted to assault you? No one has entered your rig while you were fast asleep inside and stolen the beer out of your fridge? Have you even witnessed a situation where you thought to yourself, "I need some protection", or "I'm glad I could defend myself under those circumstances"?

Guns are expensive, I could get the cooling unit on my fridge fixed for the cost of one of those babies, and get a better return from my investment. After all I'm more likely to die from e coli or ptomaine poisoning from poorly refrigerated food than getting shot because I wasn't armed.
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:28 AM   #191
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You know, I wasn't planning on sharing this, but if it's what you want to prove the point, then I will share it.

My uncle had and still has several guns. One saved him and his family's lives. Of all the places, some person broke and entered his home. Two individuals entered the residence and one was armed.

My uncle confronted one of the intruders which was heading for my cousins room where she was sleeping. The man with the weapon drew and his life was ended. The other dropped to the floor and was picked up by the police when the arrived about 10 minutes later.

Bottom line, if it can happen in your own home, it can happen anywhere.

I am sure there are more of these out there, but here is your one that you were looking for.......
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:49 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtpalms
According to the poll results, 56% of forum members pack a gun for self defense. I am still waiting to hear from at least one of you who has been in a position (as a civilian - in the line of duty is a whole 'nother matter) to use that weapon for protection. You needn't have fired it, or even brandished it, just felt the security of having it there when someone has threatened you. C.mon, folks, for all this fierce talk. Nobody?

Guns are expensive, I could get the cooling unit on my fridge fixed for the cost of one of those babies, and get a better return from my investment. After all I'm more likely to die from e coli or ptomaine poisoning from poorly refrigerated food than getting shot because I wasn't armed.
Ok... I can think of a bunch off the top of my head, and all off-duty in a civilian capacity: I was confronted in a K-Mart parking lot in Mira Mesa, a suburb of San Diego, by a wacko who was bent on hurting me with a tire iron because he thought I cut him off at a traffic light. He had no idea who I was or where I was employed. The confrontation ended quickly and he changed his mind after he realized that he'd brought a tire iron to a gunfight. All I wanted to do was go shopping.

I stopped a robbery at a grocery store, again while off-duty and again in Mira Mesa, by two 17 year old juveniles, one with a .38 revolver in his waistband. I noticed it as they were walking to the front door of the store with the stated intention of robbing it. I was waiting outside in the car. My wife was standing in the checkout line, and undoubtedly would have been one of the recipients of their attention had I not intervened.

After moving from Mira Mesa, I lived out in Ramona, CA; then the last bastion of civilization before the Cleveland Nat'l Forest. We lived 4 miles from town. As I was leaving my house in that very rural setting to take my wife to a doctor's appointment, I was confronted by two guys with rifles who told me that I couldn't possibly live in that house, and that they intended to go see the inside regardless of what I told them. Fortunately, their insistance and the discussion ended when I explained that they were making me very nervous, and that being on the business end of handgun being held by a nervous man was not a secure place to be. They decided it was in their best interest to leave.

Another officer, a friend of mine, after his shift with the Vice squad was accosted at gunpoint outside a 7-11 store in National City, CA. He told the bad guy that he was a former sailor, and that his billfold was in his sock. While keeping the bad guy's attention focused on the wallet and money in it, he drew his off-duty revolver from his ankle holster and shot the bad guy, stopping the threat. It wasn't perhaps the best outcome, but my friend was unharmed.

We live in a violent world, whether we as individuals choose to recognize it or not. Choosing not to frequent places that place you in harm's way will suffice ninety-five percent of the time. However, the anecdotes I've given here illustrate that merely trying to be in "safe" places during "safe" times of the day don't always work to keep us safe. We all shop, drive, and conduct business.

I'm sure, given time, I could come up with more anecdotal evidence that there are folks out there who want to harm regular folks like us, and that being prepared to and willing to defend yourself under those circumstances prevents you or those around you from becoming a crime victim. I personally have no desire to be a victim. I'm NOT advocating that everyone should carry a gun. I don't advocate that everyone should own a gun. I do advocate that you take responsiblity for your own safety. I also advocate that should you choose to possess a gun for defense that you be fully prepared physically and mentally for the realities of possessing and using it.

Roger
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:53 AM   #193
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I've ridden a motorcycle for 40 years now and never needed a helmet on the street. And I have many friends in the same situation.

I've driven a car almost that long and never needed a seat belt or air bag. Most people will go their whole life and never need one.

I've boated much of my life and never needed a Personal Floatation Device, signal mirror or flares, or other emergency gear.

Most people could also carry a weapon their whole life and never need to use it. I imagine that number includes many, if not most, police officers. And most, if not all, of those who carry hope they'll never need it, just as those who wear helmets and seat belts hope they never need them.

Just because you can't find someone who needed a weapon doesn't mean no one ever did or ever will. Many who needed a helmet, seat belt or other safety gear such as a weapon, and didn't have it, aren't here to testify any more.
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Old 04-27-2004, 01:04 PM   #194
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I thank you, Silvertwinkie and Roger for your input and I respect your opinions.

I will probably never carry a weapon myself, it is a responsibilty I don't care to shoulder. However, I get tired of hearing from people who scare themselves silly by watching too many violent movies and too much of what is passed off as tv 'news', then run out and buy a firearm because 'it could happen to them'.

I've been on the receiving end of violence, and have lost people to violence. So far my own experiences haven't convinced me of the need to arm myself, and the most tragic would have been avoided if firearms hadn't been in the home (no minors were involved) - it was a case of an intruder using a homeowner's gun to kill her and 2 visitors.
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Old 04-27-2004, 01:08 PM   #195
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True it is a choice, and I very much repect your position on the subject mtpalms!

Eric
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Old 04-27-2004, 01:13 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtpalms
I thank you, Silvertwinkie and Roger for your input and I respect your opinions.

I will probably never carry a weapon myself, it is a responsibilty I don't care to shoulder. However, I get tired of hearing from people who scare themselves silly by watching too many violent movies and too much of what is passed off as tv 'news', then run out and buy a firearm because 'it could happen to them'.

I've been on the receiving end of violence, and have lost people to violence. So far my own experiences haven't convinced me of the need to arm myself, and the most tragic would have been avoided if firearms hadn't been in the home (no minors were involved) - it was a case of an intruder using a homeowner's gun to kill her and 2 visitors.
You're welcome. And please recognize that my opinions have evolved over thirty years of dealing with exactly the experience you described here. And it's been my experience that if the crook who murdered your friend, there's the very real alternative that he would have used a knife from the kitchen or a baseball bat from the closet, or a hammer from the garage to accomplish the same tasks. I too have had several friends murdered; all on-duty, and all by crooks with guns.

Firearms themselves, like hammers, knives, and baseball bats are merely a tool; it's how they're deployed and by whom that makes them either worthwhile or sinister.

Neither paranoia nor unreasonable fear should never enter into the choice of whether to own or carry firearms. It should be a reasoned choice based on perceived need, training, and conditioning.

It sounds like you're making a good choice for you. It's folks who want to take away my reasoned choice from me that cause me concern.

Roger
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