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Old 03-20-2014, 07:58 AM   #1
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Non-Ethanol Gas Stations

For you all that run gas rigs, here's a great site to find non-ethanol gas. If you don't know it, ethanol gas will ruin your fuel lines, give you less power and less mileage and on older vehicles, can cause a host of other problems. Plus it only lasts a couple of months without causing issues. There is also an app for non-ethanol gas for Androids. Non-ethanol gas at 87 octane is like running premium in ethanol and you will experience better power and better mileage.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:09 AM   #2
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Good LORD, people. E10 won't hurt your fuel lines, give you less power, (ethanol is 102 octane), won't cause "a host of other problems and the storage life in my garage is no different than straight gas. Now...if you are running a pre 1985 vehicle, many of these things are true.

We have been an E10 state for DECADES and we don't have issues.

Running e15 in an E10 vehicle (all production vehicles are E10 capable) may cause issues. An e85 capable flex-fuel vehicle can burn any concentration, up to 85% ethanol.

There are over 6,000,000 GM flex fuel vehicles on the roads today...and IIRC about the same amount from Ford and Chrysler combined. The industry has A LOT of experience with ethanol, and it is not an issue when the vehicle is designed for it.

There is about a 15 - 20% mileage penalty for E85 over straight gasoline, and about a 1 - 2% penalty for E10. Ethanol does not have as much energy content (BTUs) as gasoline.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:16 AM   #3
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You should get 10% better mileage using non-ethanol fuel if you can find it. That only makes sense if you can find it and pay no more than 10% higher price than the ethanol blended fuel.

My local station puts an $.80/gallon premium on it, so it doesn't make much sense to use it, unless you have some generators or small equipment that can't tolerate ethanol, or you want to store it for a long time without using sta-bil.

Many people think that you can get better mileage using premium. That is not really the case unless it is ethanol free. If your car has a built in knock sensor, and will advance timing with the presence of premium gas, you can get more hp out of your engine. That actually may lead to poorer mileage, as you are driving for better performance and not economy. Two of my cars have this feature and there is a slight improvement in max acceleration using premium. But not better mileage, that is for sure, but certainly more fun.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:26 AM   #4
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If you don't know it, ethanol gas will ruin your fuel lines
Depends on the age of your vehicle. Newer fuel-injected vehicles are designed to use ethanol fuel and it won't ruin their fuel lines. But if you still have a carburator ethanol is a Bad Thing™.
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give you less power and less mileage
But gives cleaner exhaust, which is actually the whole point of using ethanol in place of MTBE for oxygenating fuel.
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Plus it only lasts a couple of months without causing issues.
Now true of ALL gasoline (not just ethanol) AND diesel (not just biodiesel) since the stabilizers that once added to the shelf life of the fuel are carcinogens when burned and so have also been removed from the fuel blends.

But enough of playing Devil's Advocate…

Important point to keep in mind if you want to go 100% gasoline: Do not mix it with ethanol gasoline! If you've ever had ethanol gas in your tank, run the tank down as empty as you can get it before filling up with ethnol-free gasoline, and vice versa. Ethanol combined with the MTBE in ethanol-free gasoline causes a buildup of brown sludge in your fuel system. Many people who've complained about ethanol ruining their engines when it was first introduced were adding half-a-tank of ethanol to half-a-tank of ethanol-free and getting that brown sludge in their fuel systems. If your engine never had anything but ethanol in it from day one, ethanol isn't as bad for the engine as it is if you alternate back and forth between ethanol and ethanol-free.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:28 AM   #5
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I thought MTBE was banned nation-wide a few years ago?
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:32 AM   #6
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10% is a stretch. Yes, pricing of ethanol blends can be an issue and should be considered when making a decision. Here, E10 is mandated, so????? When E85 is 20% less than regular, is is a good buy. Market conditions drive the price of Ethanol, but it is typically cheaper here in the corn belt than elsewhere, due to distribution costs (it can't be pipelined).

Ethanol is 102 octane and your spark knock sensor takes full advantage of it. You will actually see a slight power INCREASE with E85. With E10 it is there, but imperceptible. Of course, the base stock gasoline has a lot to do with it as well. If ethanol is used for 87 octane fuel, you gotta wonder what was the octane of the stock? Sometimes, ethanol is used to just take a regular grade 87 octane to a "mid-grade" 89 octane and the two stock fuels are exactly the same.

Small engine manufacturers started making ethanol tolerant engines by the mid to late 80's, BUT they are all over the board, and a very few still may not tolerate ethanol.

I have 4 really old engines. A 1978 Generac generator, a 1986 Yamaha 125 scooter, a 1966 Mercury 6 horse outboard, and a 1972 Johnson 9.5 HP outboard.

The scooter is completely stock and has ingested ethanol since day one. The other three have had carb rebuilds in the last 5 years with modern materials. None have had any ethanol related issues...PERIOD.

In addition, I have a 1960 Clinton 6hp chain saw (carb rebuilt once), Echo weed trimmer that I inherited from my uncle (circa 1988??, never had any work done), 1985 Sears chain saw (no work done).

Fuel storage is fuel storage. I have used Stabil for everything, ethanol or not, so I can't really compare.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:34 AM   #7
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I thought MTBE was banned nation-wide a few years ago?
It is.....ethanol is now used in place of MTBE everywhere. That also contributed to the rise in demand for ethanol and thus the price rise.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:47 AM   #8
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I thought MTBE was banned nation-wide a few years ago?
No. It is banned outright in 19 states. The other 31 states still allow it. This according to data from the US EPA website. (Note that Wikipedia says 25 states, then refers you to the EPA website where they list 19).

Only about 4% of all gasoline produced in the US is ethanol-free, so the fact that 31 states still allow MTBE doesn't mean you can necessarily get fuel with MTBE in those states anymore.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:07 AM   #9
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I have an 08 flex fuel truck. I have run E85 when it was cost effective.

Alcohol in fuel does absorb more water, and is therefore more corrosive.

When my truck was about three years old it wouldn't start one morning, fuel pump failure.

When I dropped the tank the electrical connections to the pump below the fuel level had corroded to the point that contact was broken.

Oxygenated fuel means that oxygen, the stuff that causes oxidation is built in. When the ability of alcohol to absorb water is added to the mix.... Well.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:44 AM   #10
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I hear that a lot as well. Ethanol isn't terribly hygroscopic, but will absorb liquid water from poorly stored fuel. (Remember Heet....it's mostly ethanol to absorb water) The water doesn't cause the corrosion in the fuel system. It is suspended in the fuel and burned. Ethanol itself is corrosive to some cast aluminum alloys. (which haven't been used in cars for many years). It isn't rust, its more like an etching of the aluminum...and then it flakes.
I submit to you, in modern vehicles, it is much worse to have water not absorbed and burned, but sitting in the bottom of your tank.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:09 AM   #11
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Water is going to get in fuel.

When a tanker is filled with 10,000 gallons of gas, there is a large volume of air in the tank. If it is hot and humid this volume of air is going to contain a fair amount of water.

When the cool gasoline is pumped in, it gets even cooler because of evaporation, the a air in the tank cools and a fair amount of the vapor in the air will condense to water before it can escape.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:14 AM   #12
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Call me a cynic,,,,,, but,,,,

Fwiw, I doubt that oxygenated fuel does much to help control emissions as it does to improve the bottom line of companies like ADM, whose gains I am all but certain are likewise reflected in certain political contributions etc.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:41 AM   #13
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Some Marathon stations have a 90 octane "recreational grade" without ethanol. We use it in our mowers, motorcycle, antique car, and sometimes in the daily driver.

I'm just glad it's available. My whole objection to ethanol isn't about whether it's good or bad. It's the mandated part. Millions of vehicles in this country were never intended to use ethanol. To leave them (us) hanging without an option is simply criminal.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:46 PM   #14
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I don't worry about ethanol in my truck or SUV but I do in small engines and my old 150 HP Mercury outboard. I have a farm and lots of equipment with small engines (both 2 and 4 cycle). Since I found a local station that sells ethanol free fuel, I have had ZERO problems related to fuel. Before, I was always having starting problems and performance isses it seemed on a daily basis. I had always used a fuel stablizer of some type but that didn't really help. I was in my local small engine shop the other day for a part. One of the mechanics and a friend has worked on small engines for decades. He stated that gummed up carbs and ethanol related issues account for at least half of their business.
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