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Old 03-26-2008, 11:20 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrob
Just bought a 06 Jeep Liberty diesel. Shopped/agonized over the purchase for quite a while.
Right after the purchase fuel prices went over $4/gal around here.
The reasons I went with this rig are: Alternative fuel (as in not gasoline), Reasonable fuel mileage as opposed to gas (20-40% better), Longer engine life (your results may vary), 4 cylinder, 4wd to pull my boat out of sticky tidal boat ramps, 5,000lb towing capacity for the Airstream. Wanted to spend less than $20,000. 5 speed automatic. Small vehicle 4,000lbs
The wife and I agreed that if this did not work out we would sell it as there are design weaknesses that must be addressed for a happy life, about $3,000.
Was this a smart purchase? When it tows the Airstream to AZ and back will let you know.

R
Best of luck to you, hope it works out. Although this is an entirely different animal than a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel pickup. I didn't even know this vehicle existed. Was there a price premium over the gasoline version and what kind of mpg can you expect. Also what are the design weaknesses you spoke of? This vehicle sounds interesting.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:51 PM   #114
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More Power!!

I know that this thread is about mileage but you all seem to forget the reason many of us bought a diesel powered truck in the first place.
MORE POWER!

There isn't a gas powered truck sold today that can run with a modern diesel powered truck uphill in the mountains with a serious load. Sure, a V-10 powered Ford will beat an empty diesel in a drag race, but hook 10,000+ lbs behind both trucks and it's a completely different story. My stock 2005 6.0 PSD has outrun cars uphill in the mountains while towing my 8,000 lb. Excella.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:20 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Steve Heywood
...MORE POWER!...
yeah baby! i'm with you on this one....

gotta love the low end grunt AND the horse power is great too!

10 wheels and rolling!

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:11 AM   #116
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Right you are, some of the time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Heywood
I know that this thread is about mileage but you all seem to forget the reason many of us bought a diesel powered truck in the first place.
MORE POWER!

There isn't a gas powered truck sold today that can run with a modern diesel powered truck uphill in the mountains with a serious load. Sure, a V-10 powered Ford will beat an empty diesel in a drag race, but hook 10,000+ lbs behind both trucks and it's a completely different story. My stock 2005 6.0 PSD has outrun cars uphill in the mountains while towing my 8,000 lb. Excella.
I agree completely, many on the forum bought a diesel powered truck for MORE POWER, especially those who are towing 10,000+ lbs.....

However, many on the forum bought a gas powered truck for ENOUGH POWER, especially those who are not towing 10,000+ lbs.....

It appears that many diesel trucks provide superior MPG while towing....

However, it also appears that there is a question as to the bottom line economics of superior MPG as the primary advantage.....

This thread is a great source of detailed information about many TV/AS combinations and the experience of their owners in varied conditions and circumstances.....
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:53 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by BillTex
Hi Ho-get some RPM numbers to go with those-I am curious about that 1800 RPM peak efficiency thing for diesel engines.
It seemed to be true for my DuraMax...but I don't have as much time in the "test lab" as you-800-900 mi/week-wow!

Thanx, Bill
67 mph = 1850 rpm
55 = just a hair over 1500 rpm

Things are settling in at 26.2 mpg indicated based on 67 cruise, mostly interstate and a small amount of stop and go traffic (Thank you Pearl Police for sitting on the side of I-20 during rush hour to assure we are all driving nice, thus allowing the rubberneckers to come to a complete standstill at that location . Rant turned off now )
I'll probably hit the pumps Friday evening to see what the actual MPG works out to be.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:22 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV
67 mph = 1850 rpm
55 = just a hair over 1500 rpm

Things are settling in at 26.2 mpg indicated based on 67 cruise, mostly interstate and a small amount of stop and go traffic (Thank you Pearl Police for sitting on the side of I-20 during rush hour to assure we are all driving nice, thus allowing the rubberneckers to come to a complete standstill at that location . Rant turned off now )
I'll probably hit the pumps Friday evening to see what the actual MPG works out to be.
Hi Vernon, yes, interesting as you are right around the magic 1800 RPM number.
CTD is known for many good qualities, one of them being it's efficiency.

Keep posting mpg/rpm/mph numbers for us...and watch out for smokie!

Bill
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:23 AM   #119
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The only time I see "north" of 1900-rpm is when downshifting getting off the big road; or, when towing and getting onto the highway. Never seen redline and never plan to.

Keep it between 1600-1900 at all times and one see's the kind of fuel economy that pays the difference between diesel and gas! The trick is to do it in town also (fourth gear is what I run 35-40 mph limited roads at, or about 33-mph), and to NEVER stop for traffic lights --just keep slowing down (easier, granted, with the New Venture 5600 6-speed.)

One learns to NOT drive like the herd . . many claim it, about 1 in 500 actually does it. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

The mpg numbers you are showing on the overhead readout are consistent with my own. I always travel the Interstate or better secondaries at 67-68 mph, solo. Pickups handle for *@#$, and OUGHT to be below the limit even on the best days.

On a 500-mile day the "penalty" is only about 1/2-hour between 67 and 72 mph, irrelevant. What is nice is that most traffic speeds on around, and one can relax by not ever having to change lanes, etc, AND this is an easy speed to maintain up and down the hills. Having a range in excess of 600-miles is also sweet.

We should all be driving for economy, IMHO, once the proper vehicle is chosen, the best economy THAT vehicle is capable of. This practice, along with combining all trips into one really cuts the fuel bill to it's practical minimum.

With the weather here in Corpus Christi at 70F nights and 80F days, it still takes 6-7 miles at 33 mph/1800-rpm to see the coolant temp come to op-temp. And another 6-7 miles in 6th at 58 mph to really feel the truck loosen up all the way; all the fluids, greases, rubber and metal to shed to cold of sitting overnight. Because of this I always try to run 25-30 miles on a day of errands, etc. Or, to go out to the farthest point on roads that allow 45 mph and start back in. (This is where a gear-splitter would be great, by allowing a closer match between engine speed and road speed).

Since Jan 1 I have been out of the city limits three times (round-trips of 60 miles or more; one at 226 miles); or, 2,500-miles over 12-weeks. My hand-calculated fuel mileage has been 19.0 at AN AVERAGE SPEED OF 25 MPH. If my speed drops to 20 to 22 mph, my fuel mileage drops to 16-18 mpg in the same driving.

So, avoid idling, avoid stop & go traffic where possible (I'll go a few miles out of the way) AND KEEP THE AVERAGE SPEED UP by running the roads below the limits to keep inside the traffic light timing.

The biggest fuel economy penalty is:

Coming to a full stop (and idling)
Accelerating PAST 7-10 mph below limit.

Let the truck drift up in speed a little to reach cruise after accelerating; and keep it within the magic 1600-1900 rpm band. I only use the throttle to move between gears . . roadspeed and gear selection are what matter, not throttle opening.

Best mileage I've seen on the overhead is 27+ at extended 58-mph cruise on a state highway for over 30 miles. It has shown itself to average 9% high, so that "may" be an actual 25 mpg. (But it would be a long day of testing to verify).

A diesels higher cost is offset by its ability to maintain consistent performance far more miles than a gasoline motor. Again, for those not towing more than 10% of their annual miles (with trailers of under 7,000-lbs) it may not work to $$ advantage.

I fail to understand why some are afraid to run a gasoline V8 hard. The normal cruise rpm was 2800-3200 in the 1960's and 1970's. Those engines would last 150,000-miles when cared for. Also, seeing wide-open throttle for 20 minutes was something you counted on in cresting some Rocky Mountain passes. Didn't hurt anything. (And, kinda cool to watch the fuel gauge jerk it's way downwards). The herd members are afraid of climbing mountains at slower speeds, what they should be afraid of is in the descent. And gasoline motors have much better compression braking for that. (And why an exhaust brake is on my list of items to have).

The biggest advantage of a diesel is that is fairly weight-insensitive. My truck, empty or with a 2,000-lb load gets the same mileage (if I am careful in starting and stopping; see above). I have not ever been able to do this with a gasoline vehicle. Road speed and aerodynamics of the trailer are the next determinants.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:34 AM   #120
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I really don't understand the algorithim that is used for the MPG-O-Meter, but I am sure it's not truely using fuel flow (or pulses injected) and wheel rotation to calculate MPG. It's gotta be some average/better/worse estimate. I can run 50 miles HARD and get it down into the mid teens and it only takes a few miles of drafting a big rig to jump back into the low 20's. Some simple math shows that the only way that is posssible it to MAKE fuel while drafting .
Having said that, it's still a usefull tool.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:58 AM   #121
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The longer it remains set (after re-set) the more accurate it tends to be. Some trucks (by report) are off by 3-4 mpg, some by .5 mpg. Percentages are a better understanding, and ALL of this depends on stock tires, no performance tuning, etc.

For running down the road I simply deduct 2.5 mpg for an "accurate" reading (on my stock tires and untouched truck).
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:50 PM   #122
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Why do so many people believe you can only get 100,000-150,000 miles out of a gasoline vehicle. There are many, many gasoline vehicles that are fully capable of lasting 250,000-300,000 miles and more. Having said that I do believe a diesel motor can last even longer if well maintained. I have had vehicles with well over 200,000 miles. The transmission is often what you have to look at to fail long before the engine. There is a man I work with some, who goes to my church who has 496,000 miles on his gasoline powered vehicle. His work truck has 320,000 miles on it, he is fanatical about routine maintenance. My Dad purchased a Dodge pickup in 1978 and when my brother traded it in 1994 it had right at 300,000 miles and was still running fine. I just sold a Dodge Dakota with 318 that had almost 200,000 miles and it still ran like a scalded dog, the only problem it had was that the torque converter was starting to act up when under full acceleration shifting from 1st to 2nd and just had to let off a little and it would shift in. My Dad still has his 96 Dodge Ram and it runs great, he did have the tranny rebuilt at about 150,000 miles but that isn't unexpected. My neighbor has a gas pickup that has almost 300,000 miles on it and he says it's gonna outlast his son's diesel, which currently is sitting with a cracked block at 195,000 miles but soon to be repaired. A good friend of mine traded his Ford Ranger with 260,000 miles on it but I'll admit that truck was pretty much shot by that point.

Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance and more maintenance. If I ever have the need for a diesel I'll find out how long that sucker will last, hopefully at least a half million miles. They say the old 12 valve Cummins would last a million miles if properly maintained. We ought to start a poll or thread and see who has had or currently has the most miles on a vehicle.
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:23 AM   #123
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Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmossyone
...Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance and more maintenance. ..
I used to work with a guy who lived in Germany and usually after a couple of beers he would tear into a rant about how crappy the American autos were. My favorite thing he ever said was

'Your cars are crap, they fall apart on the side of the road. Now my BMW has never had a problem, if you don't believe me you can call my mechanic. He checks it out once a month and has done so since it was new'



At that point I was driving a Surburban with 130k+ miles that had never been to a shop but did need a new radiator at 100k
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:17 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmossyone
Best of luck to you, hope it works out. Although this is an entirely different animal than a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel pickup. I didn't even know this vehicle existed. Was there a price premium over the gasoline version and what kind of mpg can you expect. Also what are the design weaknesses you spoke of? This vehicle sounds interesting.
My brother called it an odd duck. Vito Motori 4 cyl has more torque than my 8 cyl 4.8l GMC, has the 5speed auto from the Hemi p-u. The torque converter is made of plastic, the air box leaks water, the oil pan is aluminum and strips out drain plugs, the recalled replacement ball joints need to be replaced and so on.
It seems worth it to me but it is a gamble. There was a bit of a premium over the gassers, but not too bad.
Will have to run the Tradewind a little light but should be ok.
R
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:35 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmossyone
Why do so many people believe you can only get 100,000-150,000 miles out of a gasoline vehicle. There are many, many gasoline vehicles that are fully capable of lasting 250,000-300,000 miles and more. Having said that I do believe a diesel motor can last even longer if well maintained. I have had vehicles with well over 200,000 miles.
Gasoline motors tend to lose compression at some point. I, too, have had several vehicles that were in excess of 200,000 but compression was iffy on one or two cylinders (rings). At that point towing heavy (5 or 6,000 lbs) became iffy. The cooling system started to overload, etc. These were 1970's cars with electronic ignition, but with carburetors. Todays port injection motors may well be better . . but I'd like to see numbers from a compression test and blowby test first.

The fact of the matter is that a gas motor is meant to be "cheap" in initial purchase and during the life of the motor. A diesel (well, at least a Cummins) is built to an entirely different standard, meant for commercial or industrial use.

Fuel mileage for gas versus diesel as a question ought to be prefaced by:

1] "I will be keeping my truck for X miles over Y time . . . . "

2] "I will be A] fulltiming, or B] only occasional trips; and,
C] have/have not any business use for the truck."

3] "I have no concern about fuel availability" versus "I am concerned about ease of fuel availability".

4] "I am mechanically-minded and like to learn new procedures" versus "I do not intend to even change a clogged fuel filter".

Etc.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:13 PM   #126
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I have a gas TV but in my commercial experience hauling bees (aged at this point) cumins was great and the DT 466 International (wet sleeved) were half million mile eng. or better. But my experience was limited to straight trucks not PU. trucks. Maybe after a few more years PU trucks will have a greater record that can be more authoritatively relied on.
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