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Old 03-23-2008, 09:41 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by safari 28
Recovering from a very long night at the bar. Good friend who owns a fleet of 150 trucks just put the hammer down on anything over 62mph. A truck drivers time is not worth what his truck consumes at 80. They are watching the gps boards and calling the driver if he exceeds the new limit. He does not want to put speed limiters on yet, but will. They cover the west coast from michigan. I feel sorry for the drivers, can you imagine how long that round trip is every week now?
That's 180 miles less per ten hour day. Or, two and a half hours' more driving time at the new limit. That would be an extra day's travel time per 5 day week.
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:56 PM   #100
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sucks to be truck driver these days. I think he said before the new rule top speed allowed was 71.
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:09 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by mrchinup1
I have a 2007 silverado with a 5.3l. I was thinking of getting a dodge ram megacab with a diesel 2 wheel drive, 3.73 gears. It is a 2007 with a 5.9 l, i was wondering what kind of mileage i would get when towing and without towing? The price is great, for a brand new slt, it's 28.700, I wonder if i could get better than 11.8 average miles per gallon towing that i get with the silverado. Thanks for the help.
Mmo-to answer the original post; there is no doubt mrchinup will do better than 11.8 mpg towing with a diesel. It is very unlikely he (or anyone) will do much better towing with gas. That appears to be the overwhelming average mileage for those towing with SB gassers (11-12 mpg). Average towing mpg for diesel is in the 14-15 mpg range. Once in a while someone will claim something outside of these ranges, but those claims can be viewed with a raised brow.
As far as the overall economics of owning a diesel, as noted earlier, towing and highway mileage are much better with diesel. Around town mileage will be about the same. Depending on how you use your vehicle (ours is strictly towing and other long range adventure trips, it rarely gets used around town) so for us it has proven to be much more economical. I donít dislike gas; I have owned 5 half ton gas trucks! But there is no doubt which I would rather tow with and which has returned greater economy.

Quote:
You must be the exception. As far as resale, does your truck have 250,000-300,000 miles on it like my hypothetical situation. You would be lucky to even get 5500.00 dollars for it let alone getting 5500.00 more than a comparable gasser. I'm also sure lots of people would love to know where you got that wonderful deal and I said 5,000-7,000 more not 7,000-8,000 more. As your edmunds book value on your newer diesel shows it would cost over 5,000 more for a diesel over a comparable gasser. I have never owned a diesel because I have never needed a diesel and the numbers have never proven it to be the better value, that doesn't mean that I can't add/subtract/multiply/divide/so on and so on.

Hey you obviously like diesels and obviously prefer them so my post should not even have applied to you. The original poster was interested in wether or not they should get a diesel over a gasser so I believe they would be interested in all cost analysis information not just which gets better gas mileage. Also just for your own information there are gasoline powered vehicles that can tow some Airstreams and get better gas mileage than 3/4 ton diesel trucks do. It's all in what you need and what you want that goes into your own value based decisions.

I'm glad you are on the winning side of value for the product you own but I personally know of 4 people who are now sorry they purchased a diesel over a gasser. All but one are family members and two live right next door.

I disagree that a diesel is a better value if you don't need it, you have a differing opinion and your evidence does not sway me to change mine. That's all. But I won't say your information isn't valid as some people in particular circumstances will surely find your information valuable. I hope you continue enjoying your diesel. If you really want to save some money go used veggie in that diesel.
Obviously one of the greatest advantages of diesel engines is the wide variety of fuels they can burn (diesels were designed to run on peanut oil!) this adds to their appeal.

Here is where we purchased our truck; www.paulmasse.com speak with Paul Draggich, nice guy, personally drove to Maine to pick up the truck we wanted. The $3k plus we paid for diesel over a gasser appears to be about what most Folks paid according to other posts, not an exception.
I just ran gas vs. diesel through Edmunds again with my truck at 250,000 miles, it shows diesel ahead by $4534. I did this for your edification, I never buy a vehicle based on what I might get for ROI ten year later. Automobiles are the worst investment (most of us) make. I buy what I like to get the job done, and having more than I need is way better than finding out I need more than I have.

Bill
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:46 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
Mmo-to answer the original post; there is no doubt mrchinup will do better than 11.8 mpg towing with a diesel. It is very unlikely he (or anyone) will do much better towing with gas. That appears to be the overwhelming average mileage for those towing with SB gassers (11-12 mpg). Average towing mpg for diesel is in the 14-15 mpg range. Once in a while someone will claim something outside of these ranges, but those claims can be viewed with a raised brow.
As far as the overall economics of owning a diesel, as noted earlier, towing and highway mileage are much better with diesel. Around town mileage will be about the same. Depending on how you use your vehicle (ours is strictly towing and other long range adventure trips, it rarely gets used around town) so for us it has proven to be much more economical. I donít dislike gas; I have owned 5 half ton gas trucks! But there is no doubt which I would rather tow with and which has returned greater economy.



Obviously one of the greatest advantages of diesel engines is the wide variety of fuels they can burn (diesels were designed to run on peanut oil!) this adds to their appeal.

Here is where we purchased our truck; www.paulmasse.com speak with Paul Draggich, nice guy, personally drove to Maine to pick up the truck we wanted. The $3k plus we paid for diesel over a gasser appears to be about what most Folks paid according to other posts, not an exception.
I just ran gas vs. diesel through Edmunds again with my truck at 250,000 miles, it shows diesel ahead by $4534. I did this for your edification, I never buy a vehicle based on what I might get for ROI ten year later. Automobiles are the worst investment (most of us) make. I buy what I like to get the job done, and having more than I need is way better than finding out I need more than I have.

Bill
I'm obviously not going to change your mind so I don't know why I'm still arguing this point except that maybe someone else will get some useful information from it. That being said yours is the only post in this thread that mentions only paying about 3,000 more for diesel, most posts where this is concerned in this thread and others show a 5,000-7,000 dollar difference. Your truck is a newer diesel so it of course will come up as costing more vs. the gasser, your making my point for me there. I just ran the numbers for identical 10 year old trucks w/ 250,000 miles with the exception of diesel vs. gas and Edmunds showed absolutely no price difference and Kelly Blue book showed a 170.00 dollar difference. Also there were two people in this thread who get better overall gas mileage with a gasser over a diesel, so it is possible. Matter of fact the RM Estate Wagon I will be towing with gets 26 mpg on hwy and 18 in town and since towing is less than 2% of it's use I guarantee I'm getting better overall gas mileage than a 3/4 ton diesel truck of any stripe.

I stand by my opinion that unless you need a diesel it is a bad value vs. a gasser. Also that if you much prefer a diesel then value is probably a secondary variable in your buying decision.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:18 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmossyone
I'm obviously not going to change your mind so I don't know why I'm still arguing this point except that maybe someone else will get some useful information from it. That being said yours is the only post in this thread that mentions only paying about 3,000 more for diesel, most posts where this is concerned in this thread and others show a 5,000-7,000 dollar difference.
Well...no...you can't change my mind...(you would have to erase my life experience ala "total recall" to accomplish this) because I have owned and towed with both. Others have not had that opportunity (yet).The $3k premium for a diesel has been discussed many times in this forum, not this thread. There are several others going on related to 3/4 ton trucks.

Quote:
Your truck is a newer diesel so it of course will come up as costing more vs. the gasser, your making my point for me there.
No, it's not...it is the previous gen diesel (2006)

Quote:
I just ran the numbers for identical 10 year old trucks w/ 250,000 miles with the exception of diesel vs. gas and Edmunds showed absolutely no price difference and Kelly Blue book showed a 170.00 dollar difference.
I only have my truck to compare, using some hypothetical 10 yr old truck is irrelevant. I can only comment on what I know...and I know I do not buy any vehicle with the (false) hope of making money on it (Corvette maybe?). But I do know, the diesel delivers much better mpg than any gasser I have owned, and that was the intent of this thread.

Quote:
Also there were two people in this thread who get better overall gas mileage with a gasser over a diesel, so it is possible.
As noted, some replies, that fall way outside of the curve, should be viewed with raised browse...

Quote:
Matter of fact the RM Estate Wagon I will be towing with gets 26 mpg on hwy and 18 in town and since towing is less than 2% of it's use I guarantee I'm getting better overall gas mileage than a 3/4 ton diesel truck of any stripe.
I don't doubt that at all. My Wife drives a supercharged Buick that get 30 mpg hwy and 22 in town. A great daily driver.
I am sure neither of these will not do nearly as well towing. But you will have a cool, and useful, TV.

Quote:
I stand by my opinion that unless you need a diesel it is a bad value vs. a gasser. Also that if you much prefer a diesel then value is probably a secondary variable in your buying decision.
After you have owned and towed with both gas and diesel, you may have a different opinion, please come back and re-post.

Bill
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:37 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
Well...no...you can't change my mind...(you would have to erase my life experience ala "total recall" to accomplish this) because I have owned and towed with both. Others have not had that opportunity (yet).The $3k premium for a diesel has been discussed many times in this forum, not this thread. There are several others going on related to 3/4 ton trucks.


No, it's not...it is the previous gen diesel (2006)


I only have my truck to compare, using some hypothetical 10 yr old truck is irrelevant. I can only comment on what I know...and I know I do not buy any vehicle with the (false) hope of making money on it (Corvette maybe?). But I do know, the diesel delivers much better mpg than any gasser I have owned, and that was the intent of this thread.


As noted, some replies, that fall way outside of the curve, should be viewed with raised browse...


I don't doubt that at all. My Wife drives a supercharged Buick that get 30 mpg hwy and 22 in town. A great daily driver.
I am sure neither of these will not do nearly as well towing. But you will have a cool, and useful, TV.


After you have owned and towed with both gas and diesel, you may have a different opinion, please come back and re-post.

Bill
A 2006 is a newer truck(1&1/2 years old). Not a hypothetical truck and it is relevent as I mentioned how many years most would take to accrue 250,000 on their truck and my point was by the time you see any savings your truck will not be worth anymore than comparable gasser. Until I need a diesel I won't buy one and in the event I need one this discussion would be moot. I won't question anyone's credibility because they have a differing opinion or their experience lies out of the norm, I will do my own research on the subject and ask those whom I know have valuable and credible information that may help me. Thanks for the discourse and enjoy your diesel.
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Old 03-24-2008, 06:50 PM   #105
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FYI-for the point of this discussion; "older diesel" was interpereted as previous gen, prior to new emissions standards.

And yes, as pointed out, diesel engine should easily go 250-300k with no rebuild.

Bill
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:55 AM   #106
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MTBO (Mean Time Between Overhauls) on GM & Ford is 250,000 miles; on Dodge it is 350,000 miles.

I doubt that a gas motor is going to have good compression or oil analysis numbers at 200,000 miles on a mainly city-driven vehicle.

The more time spent towing, the more attractive is a diesel. For a few family trips and some weekends in a years time, it is hardly worth it, IMO, for a trailer weighing under 7,000-lbs.

My trailer is above that weight; we were full-timing for most of last year (no home); and the truck is used for business purposes otherwise. My last half-ton averaged 11-13 mpg in town. This truck, 17-19 mpg in town.
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:17 AM   #107
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The only number that matters is CPM (Cents-Per-Mile) as the reflection of true costs. My overall is .57 cpm before tax deductions are taken.

Depreciation is more than fuel. Finance charges, maintenance and repairs tend to be the equal of fuel or greater (assuming 15,000 miles annually over five years).

Worries over mpg are for those whose analysis extends no farther than the monthly payment and fuel bill, an insufficient understanding.

A better way to phrase the thing is: "Will this vehicle meet my needs (not wants) over 12-years or 200,000 miles?".
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:04 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by REDNAX
The only number that matters is CPM (Cents-Per-Mile) as the reflection of true costs. My overall is .57 cpm before tax deductions are taken.
.
Don't think you ment to put that decimal before the 57.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:11 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX
The only number that matters is CPM (Cents-Per-Mile) as the reflection of true costs. My overall is .57 cpm before tax deductions are taken.

Depreciation is more than fuel. Finance charges, maintenance and repairs tend to be the equal of fuel or greater (assuming 15,000 miles annually over five years).

Worries over mpg are for those whose analysis extends no farther than the monthly payment and fuel bill, an insufficient understanding.

A better way to phrase the thing is: "Will this vehicle meet my needs (not wants) over 12-years or 200,000 miles?".

True dat!
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:18 AM   #110
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I decided to do a little testing (at $3.89 for diesel, it was an wasy decision) and see how speed affects my indicated MPG AVG. Fist off, the MPG-O-Meter in my Ram TD see's a glass 1/2 full ...I usually get around 20 mpg and it shows 21+-. I also drive alot, 800-900 miles a week mostly interstate. I have been running around 72 mph and getting the above results. I decided to slow down 5 mph and set the cruise at 67, it only cost me 5 minutes in a 1 hour commute.
Yesterday at the end of 120 miles on the interstate = 25.1 mpg-o-meter.

This was followed by 60 miles on the Natchez trace at 55mph = 26.5 running avg.

Followed by 60 miles of rural at 55 mph = 26.5 running avg mpg-o-meter

Followed this morning by 65 miles of mainly interstate with a slight headwind = 26.4 running avg.

I'm gonna keep this up for a few days and see what the pump says.
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:41 AM   #111
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Hi Ho-get some RPM numbers to go with those-I am curious about that 1800 RPM peak efficiency thing for diesel engines.
It seemed to be true for my DuraMax...but I don't have as much time in the "test lab" as you-800-900 mi/week-wow!

Thanx, Bill
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:06 AM   #112
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It Is A Diesel Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmossyone
.................................................. .................

I stand by my opinion that unless you need a diesel it is a bad value vs. a gasser. Also that if you much prefer a diesel then value is probably a secondary variable in your buying decision.
Just bought a 06 Jeep Liberty diesel. Shopped/agonized over the purchase for quite a while.
Right after the purchase fuel prices went over $4/gal around here.
The reasons I went with this rig are: Alternative fuel (as in not gasoline), Reasonable fuel mileage as opposed to gas (20-40% better), Longer engine life (your results may vary), 4 cylinder, 4wd to pull my boat out of sticky tidal boat ramps, 5,000lb towing capacity for the Airstream. Wanted to spend less than $20,000. 5 speed automatic. Small vehicle 4,000lbs
The wife and I agreed that if this did not work out we would sell it as there are design weaknesses that must be addressed for a happy life, about $3,000.
Was this a smart purchase? When it tows the Airstream to AZ and back will let you know.

R
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