Mileage for gas trucks vs diesel trucks?

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by mrchinup1

I have a 2007 silverado with a 5.3l. I was thinking of getting a dodge ram megacab with a diesel 2 wheel drive, 3.73 gears. It is a 2007 with a 5.9 l, i was wondering what kind of mileage i would get when towing and without towing? The price is great, for a brand new slt, it's 28.700, I wonder if i could get better than 11.8 average miles per gallon towing that i get with the silverado. Thanks for the help.

Mmo-to answer the original post; there is no doubt mrchinup will do better than 11.8 mpg towing with a diesel. It is very unlikely he (or anyone) will do much better towing with gas. That appears to be the overwhelming average mileage for those towing with SB gassers (11-12 mpg). Average towing mpg for diesel is in the 14-15 mpg range. Once in a while someone will claim something outside of these ranges, but those claims can be viewed with a raised brow.
As far as the overall economics of owning a diesel, as noted earlier, towing and highway mileage are much better with diesel. Around town mileage will be about the same. Depending on how you use your vehicle (ours is strictly towing and other long range adventure trips, it rarely gets used around town) so for us it has proven to be much more economical. I don’t dislike gas; I have owned 5 half ton gas trucks! But there is no doubt which I would rather tow with and which has returned greater economy.

You must be the exception. As far as resale, does your truck have 250,000-300,000 miles on it like my hypothetical situation. You would be lucky to even get 5500.00 dollars for it let alone getting 5500.00 more than a comparable gasser. I'm also sure lots of people would love to know where you got that wonderful deal and I said 5,000-7,000 more not 7,000-8,000 more. As your edmunds book value on your newer diesel shows it would cost over 5,000 more for a diesel over a comparable gasser. I have never owned a diesel because I have never needed a diesel and the numbers have never proven it to be the better value, that doesn't mean that I can't add/subtract/multiply/divide/so on and so on.

Hey you obviously like diesels and obviously prefer them so my post should not even have applied to you. The original poster was interested in wether or not they should get a diesel over a gasser so I believe they would be interested in all cost analysis information not just which gets better gas mileage. Also just for your own information there are gasoline powered vehicles that can tow some Airstreams and get better gas mileage than 3/4 ton diesel trucks do. It's all in what you need and what you want that goes into your own value based decisions.

I'm glad you are on the winning side of value for the product you own but I personally know of 4 people who are now sorry they purchased a diesel over a gasser. All but one are family members and two live right next door.

I disagree that a diesel is a better value if you don't need it, you have a differing opinion and your evidence does not sway me to change mine. That's all. But I won't say your information isn't valid as some people in particular circumstances will surely find your information valuable. I hope you continue enjoying your diesel. If you really want to save some money go used veggie in that diesel.

Obviously one of the greatest advantages of diesel engines is the wide variety of fuels they can burn (diesels were designed to run on peanut oil!) this adds to their appeal.

Here is where we purchased our truck; www.paulmasse.com speak with Paul Draggich, nice guy, personally drove to Maine to pick up the truck we wanted. The $3k plus we paid for diesel over a gasser appears to be about what most Folks paid according to other posts, not an exception.
I just ran gas vs. diesel through Edmunds again with my truck at 250,000 miles, it shows diesel ahead by $4534. I did this for your edification, I never buy a vehicle based on what I might get for ROI ten year later. Automobiles are the worst investment (most of us) make. I buy what I like to get the job done, and having more than I need is way better than finding out I need more than I have.

Bill

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Mmo-to answer the original post; there is no doubt mrchinup will do better than 11.8 mpg towing with a diesel. It is very unlikely he (or anyone) will do much better towing with gas. That appears to be the overwhelming average mileage for those towing with SB gassers (11-12 mpg). Average towing mpg for diesel is in the 14-15 mpg range. Once in a while someone will claim something outside of these ranges, but those claims can be viewed with a raised brow.
As far as the overall economics of owning a diesel, as noted earlier, towing and highway mileage are much better with diesel. Around town mileage will be about the same. Depending on how you use your vehicle (ours is strictly towing and other long range adventure trips, it rarely gets used around town) so for us it has proven to be much more economical. I don’t dislike gas; I have owned 5 half ton gas trucks! But there is no doubt which I would rather tow with and which has returned greater economy.



Obviously one of the greatest advantages of diesel engines is the wide variety of fuels they can burn (diesels were designed to run on peanut oil!) this adds to their appeal.

Here is where we purchased our truck; www.paulmasse.com speak with Paul Draggich, nice guy, personally drove to Maine to pick up the truck we wanted. The $3k plus we paid for diesel over a gasser appears to be about what most Folks paid according to other posts, not an exception.
I just ran gas vs. diesel through Edmunds again with my truck at 250,000 miles, it shows diesel ahead by $4534. I did this for your edification, I never buy a vehicle based on what I might get for ROI ten year later. Automobiles are the worst investment (most of us) make. I buy what I like to get the job done, and having more than I need is way better than finding out I need more than I have.

Bill

I'm obviously not going to change your mind so I don't know why I'm still arguing this point except that maybe someone else will get some useful information from it. That being said yours is the only post in this thread that mentions only paying about 3,000 more for diesel, most posts where this is concerned in this thread and others show a 5,000-7,000 dollar difference. Your truck is a newer diesel so it of course will come up as costing more vs. the gasser, your making my point for me there. I just ran the numbers for identical 10 year old trucks w/ 250,000 miles with the exception of diesel vs. gas and Edmunds showed absolutely no price difference and Kelly Blue book showed a 170.00 dollar difference. Also there were two people in this thread who get better overall gas mileage with a gasser over a diesel, so it is possible. Matter of fact the RM Estate Wagon I will be towing with gets 26 mpg on hwy and 18 in town and since towing is less than 2% of it's use I guarantee I'm getting better overall gas mileage than a 3/4 ton diesel truck of any stripe.

I stand by my opinion that unless you need a diesel it is a bad value vs. a gasser. Also that if you much prefer a diesel then value is probably a secondary variable in your buying decision.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by mrmossyone

I'm obviously not going to change your mind so I don't know why I'm still arguing this point except that maybe someone else will get some useful information from it. That being said yours is the only post in this thread that mentions only paying about 3,000 more for diesel, most posts where this is concerned in this thread and others show a 5,000-7,000 dollar difference.

Well...no...you can't change my mind...(you would have to erase my life experience ala "total recall" to accomplish this) because I have owned and towed with both. Others have not had that opportunity (yet).The $3k premium for a diesel has been discussed many times in this forum, not this thread. There are several others going on related to 3/4 ton trucks.

Your truck is a newer diesel so it of course will come up as costing more vs. the gasser, your making my point for me there.

No, it's not...it is the previous gen diesel (2006)

I just ran the numbers for identical 10 year old trucks w/ 250,000 miles with the exception of diesel vs. gas and Edmunds showed absolutely no price difference and Kelly Blue book showed a 170.00 dollar difference.

I only have my truck to compare, using some hypothetical 10 yr old truck is irrelevant. I can only comment on what I know...and I know I do not buy any vehicle with the (false) hope of making money on it (Corvette maybe?). But I do know, the diesel delivers much better mpg than any gasser I have owned, and that was the intent of this thread.

Also there were two people in this thread who get better overall gas mileage with a gasser over a diesel, so it is possible.

As noted, some replies, that fall way outside of the curve, should be viewed with raised browse...

Matter of fact the RM Estate Wagon I will be towing with gets 26 mpg on hwy and 18 in town and since towing is less than 2% of it's use I guarantee I'm getting better overall gas mileage than a 3/4 ton diesel truck of any stripe.

I don't doubt that at all. My Wife drives a supercharged Buick that get 30 mpg hwy and 22 in town. A great daily driver.
I am sure neither of these will not do nearly as well towing. But you will have a cool, and useful, TV.

I stand by my opinion that unless you need a diesel it is a bad value vs. a gasser. Also that if you much prefer a diesel then value is probably a secondary variable in your buying decision.

After you have owned and towed with both gas and diesel, you may have a different opinion, please come back and re-post.

Bill

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Well...no...you can't change my mind...(you would have to erase my life experience ala "total recall" to accomplish this) because I have owned and towed with both. Others have not had that opportunity (yet).The $3k premium for a diesel has been discussed many times in this forum, not this thread. There are several others going on related to 3/4 ton trucks.


No, it's not...it is the previous gen diesel (2006)


I only have my truck to compare, using some hypothetical 10 yr old truck is irrelevant. I can only comment on what I know...and I know I do not buy any vehicle with the (false) hope of making money on it (Corvette maybe?). But I do know, the diesel delivers much better mpg than any gasser I have owned, and that was the intent of this thread.


As noted, some replies, that fall way outside of the curve, should be viewed with raised browse...


I don't doubt that at all. My Wife drives a supercharged Buick that get 30 mpg hwy and 22 in town. A great daily driver.
I am sure neither of these will not do nearly as well towing. But you will have a cool, and useful, TV.


After you have owned and towed with both gas and diesel, you may have a different opinion, please come back and re-post.

Bill

A 2006 is a newer truck(1&1/2 years old). Not a hypothetical truck and it is relevent as I mentioned how many years most would take to accrue 250,000 on their truck and my point was by the time you see any savings your truck will not be worth anymore than comparable gasser. Until I need a diesel I won't buy one and in the event I need one this discussion would be moot. I won't question anyone's credibility because they have a differing opinion or their experience lies out of the norm, I will do my own research on the subject and ask those whom I know have valuable and credible information that may help me. Thanks for the discourse and enjoy your diesel.

[BillTex]

FYI-for the point of this discussion; "older diesel" was interpereted as previous gen, prior to new emissions standards.

And yes, as pointed out, diesel engine should easily go 250-300k with no rebuild.

Bill

[slowmover]

MTBO (Mean Time Between Overhauls) on GM & Ford is 250,000 miles; on Dodge it is 350,000 miles.

I doubt that a gas motor is going to have good compression or oil analysis numbers at 200,000 miles on a mainly city-driven vehicle.

The more time spent towing, the more attractive is a diesel. For a few family trips and some weekends in a years time, it is hardly worth it, IMO, for a trailer weighing under 7,000-lbs.

My trailer is above that weight; we were full-timing for most of last year (no home); and the truck is used for business purposes otherwise. My last half-ton averaged 11-13 mpg in town. This truck, 17-19 mpg in town.

[slowmover]

The only number that matters is CPM (Cents-Per-Mile) as the reflection of true costs. My overall is .57 cpm before tax deductions are taken.

Depreciation is more than fuel. Finance charges, maintenance and repairs tend to be the equal of fuel or greater (assuming 15,000 miles annually over five years).

Worries over mpg are for those whose analysis extends no farther than the monthly payment and fuel bill, an insufficient understanding.

A better way to phrase the thing is: "Will this vehicle meet my needs (not wants) over 12-years or 200,000 miles?".

[ticki2]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

The only number that matters is CPM (Cents-Per-Mile) as the reflection of true costs. My overall is .57 cpm before tax deductions are taken.
.

Don't think you ment to put that decimal before the 57.

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

The only number that matters is CPM (Cents-Per-Mile) as the reflection of true costs. My overall is .57 cpm before tax deductions are taken.

Depreciation is more than fuel. Finance charges, maintenance and repairs tend to be the equal of fuel or greater (assuming 15,000 miles annually over five years).

Worries over mpg are for those whose analysis extends no farther than the monthly payment and fuel bill, an insufficient understanding.

A better way to phrase the thing is: "Will this vehicle meet my needs (not wants) over 12-years or 200,000 miles?".

True dat!

[HiHoAgRV]

I decided to do a little testing (at $3.89 for diesel, it was an wasy decision) and see how speed affects my indicated MPG AVG. Fist off, the MPG-O-Meter in my Ram TD see's a glass 1/2 full ...I usually get around 20 mpg and it shows 21+-. I also drive alot, 800-900 miles a week mostly interstate. I have been running around 72 mph and getting the above results. I decided to slow down 5 mph and set the cruise at 67, it only cost me 5 minutes in a 1 hour commute.
Yesterday at the end of 120 miles on the interstate = 25.1 mpg-o-meter.

This was followed by 60 miles on the Natchez trace at 55mph = 26.5 running avg.

Followed by 60 miles of rural at 55 mph = 26.5 running avg mpg-o-meter

Followed this morning by 65 miles of mainly interstate with a slight headwind = 26.4 running avg.

I'm gonna keep this up for a few days and see what the pump says.

[BillTex]

Hi Ho-get some RPM numbers to go with those-I am curious about that 1800 RPM peak efficiency thing for diesel engines.
It seemed to be true for my DuraMax...but I don't have as much time in the "test lab" as you-800-900 mi/week-wow!

Thanx, Bill

[fastrob]

Originally Posted by mrmossyone

.................................................. .................

I stand by my opinion that unless you need a diesel it is a bad value vs. a gasser. Also that if you much prefer a diesel then value is probably a secondary variable in your buying decision.

Just bought a 06 Jeep Liberty diesel. Shopped/agonized over the purchase for quite a while.
Right after the purchase fuel prices went over $4/gal around here.
The reasons I went with this rig are: Alternative fuel (as in not gasoline), Reasonable fuel mileage as opposed to gas (20-40% better), Longer engine life (your results may vary), 4 cylinder, 4wd to pull my boat out of sticky tidal boat ramps, 5,000lb towing capacity for the Airstream. Wanted to spend less than $20,000. 5 speed automatic. Small vehicle 4,000lbs
The wife and I agreed that if this did not work out we would sell it as there are design weaknesses that must be addressed for a happy life, about $3,000.
Was this a smart purchase? When it tows the Airstream to AZ and back will let you know.

R

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by fastrob

Just bought a 06 Jeep Liberty diesel. Shopped/agonized over the purchase for quite a while.
Right after the purchase fuel prices went over $4/gal around here.
The reasons I went with this rig are: Alternative fuel (as in not gasoline), Reasonable fuel mileage as opposed to gas (20-40% better), Longer engine life (your results may vary), 4 cylinder, 4wd to pull my boat out of sticky tidal boat ramps, 5,000lb towing capacity for the Airstream. Wanted to spend less than $20,000. 5 speed automatic. Small vehicle 4,000lbs
The wife and I agreed that if this did not work out we would sell it as there are design weaknesses that must be addressed for a happy life, about $3,000.
Was this a smart purchase? When it tows the Airstream to AZ and back will let you know.

R

Best of luck to you, hope it works out. Although this is an entirely different animal than a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel pickup. I didn't even know this vehicle existed. Was there a price premium over the gasoline version and what kind of mpg can you expect. Also what are the design weaknesses you spoke of? This vehicle sounds interesting.

[Steve Heywood]

I know that this thread is about mileage but you all seem to forget the reason many of us bought a diesel powered truck in the first place.
MORE POWER!

There isn't a gas powered truck sold today that can run with a modern diesel powered truck uphill in the mountains with a serious load. Sure, a V-10 powered Ford will beat an empty diesel in a drag race, but hook 10,000+ lbs behind both trucks and it's a completely different story. My stock 2005 6.0 PSD has outrun cars uphill in the mountains while towing my 8,000 lb. Excella.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Steve Heywood

...MORE POWER!...

yeah baby! i'm with you on this one....

gotta love the low end grunt AND the horse power is great too!

10 wheels and rolling!

cheers
2air'

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by Steve Heywood

I know that this thread is about mileage but you all seem to forget the reason many of us bought a diesel powered truck in the first place.
MORE POWER!

There isn't a gas powered truck sold today that can run with a modern diesel powered truck uphill in the mountains with a serious load. Sure, a V-10 powered Ford will beat an empty diesel in a drag race, but hook 10,000+ lbs behind both trucks and it's a completely different story. My stock 2005 6.0 PSD has outrun cars uphill in the mountains while towing my 8,000 lb. Excella.

I agree completely, many on the forum bought a diesel powered truck for MORE POWER, especially those who are towing 10,000+ lbs.....

However, many on the forum bought a gas powered truck for ENOUGH POWER, especially those who are not towing 10,000+ lbs.....

It appears that many diesel trucks provide superior MPG while towing....

However, it also appears that there is a question as to the bottom line economics of superior MPG as the primary advantage.....

This thread is a great source of detailed information about many TV/AS combinations and the experience of their owners in varied conditions and circumstances.....

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Hi Ho-get some RPM numbers to go with those-I am curious about that 1800 RPM peak efficiency thing for diesel engines.
It seemed to be true for my DuraMax...but I don't have as much time in the "test lab" as you-800-900 mi/week-wow!

Thanx, Bill

67 mph = 1850 rpm
55 = just a hair over 1500 rpm

Things are settling in at 26.2 mpg indicated based on 67 cruise, mostly interstate and a small amount of stop and go traffic (Thank you Pearl Police for sitting on the side of I-20 during rush hour to assure we are all driving nice, thus allowing the rubberneckers to come to a complete standstill at that location . Rant turned off now )
I'll probably hit the pumps Friday evening to see what the actual MPG works out to be.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

67 mph = 1850 rpm
55 = just a hair over 1500 rpm

Things are settling in at 26.2 mpg indicated based on 67 cruise, mostly interstate and a small amount of stop and go traffic (Thank you Pearl Police for sitting on the side of I-20 during rush hour to assure we are all driving nice, thus allowing the rubberneckers to come to a complete standstill at that location . Rant turned off now )
I'll probably hit the pumps Friday evening to see what the actual MPG works out to be.

Hi Vernon, yes, interesting as you are right around the magic 1800 RPM number.
CTD is known for many good qualities, one of them being it's efficiency.

Keep posting mpg/rpm/mph numbers for us...and watch out for smokie!

Bill

[slowmover]

The only time I see "north" of 1900-rpm is when downshifting getting off the big road; or, when towing and getting onto the highway. Never seen redline and never plan to.

Keep it between 1600-1900 at all times and one see's the kind of fuel economy that pays the difference between diesel and gas! The trick is to do it in town also (fourth gear is what I run 35-40 mph limited roads at, or about 33-mph), and to NEVER stop for traffic lights --just keep slowing down (easier, granted, with the New Venture 5600 6-speed.)

One learns to NOT drive like the herd . . many claim it, about 1 in 500 actually does it. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

The mpg numbers you are showing on the overhead readout are consistent with my own. I always travel the Interstate or better secondaries at 67-68 mph, solo. Pickups handle for *@#$, and OUGHT to be below the limit even on the best days.

On a 500-mile day the "penalty" is only about 1/2-hour between 67 and 72 mph, irrelevant. What is nice is that most traffic speeds on around, and one can relax by not ever having to change lanes, etc, AND this is an easy speed to maintain up and down the hills. Having a range in excess of 600-miles is also sweet.

We should all be driving for economy, IMHO, once the proper vehicle is chosen, the best economy THAT vehicle is capable of. This practice, along with combining all trips into one really cuts the fuel bill to it's practical minimum.

With the weather here in Corpus Christi at 70F nights and 80F days, it still takes 6-7 miles at 33 mph/1800-rpm to see the coolant temp come to op-temp. And another 6-7 miles in 6th at 58 mph to really feel the truck loosen up all the way; all the fluids, greases, rubber and metal to shed to cold of sitting overnight. Because of this I always try to run 25-30 miles on a day of errands, etc. Or, to go out to the farthest point on roads that allow 45 mph and start back in. (This is where a gear-splitter would be great, by allowing a closer match between engine speed and road speed).

Since Jan 1 I have been out of the city limits three times (round-trips of 60 miles or more; one at 226 miles); or, 2,500-miles over 12-weeks. My hand-calculated fuel mileage has been 19.0 at AN AVERAGE SPEED OF 25 MPH. If my speed drops to 20 to 22 mph, my fuel mileage drops to 16-18 mpg in the same driving.

So, avoid idling, avoid stop & go traffic where possible (I'll go a few miles out of the way) AND KEEP THE AVERAGE SPEED UP by running the roads below the limits to keep inside the traffic light timing.

The biggest fuel economy penalty is:

Coming to a full stop (and idling)
Accelerating PAST 7-10 mph below limit.

Let the truck drift up in speed a little to reach cruise after accelerating; and keep it within the magic 1600-1900 rpm band. I only use the throttle to move between gears . . roadspeed and gear selection are what matter, not throttle opening.

Best mileage I've seen on the overhead is 27+ at extended 58-mph cruise on a state highway for over 30 miles. It has shown itself to average 9% high, so that "may" be an actual 25 mpg. (But it would be a long day of testing to verify).

A diesels higher cost is offset by its ability to maintain consistent performance far more miles than a gasoline motor. Again, for those not towing more than 10% of their annual miles (with trailers of under 7,000-lbs) it may not work to $$ advantage.

I fail to understand why some are afraid to run a gasoline V8 hard. The normal cruise rpm was 2800-3200 in the 1960's and 1970's. Those engines would last 150,000-miles when cared for. Also, seeing wide-open throttle for 20 minutes was something you counted on in cresting some Rocky Mountain passes. Didn't hurt anything. (And, kinda cool to watch the fuel gauge jerk it's way downwards). The herd members are afraid of climbing mountains at slower speeds, what they should be afraid of is in the descent. And gasoline motors have much better compression braking for that. (And why an exhaust brake is on my list of items to have).

The biggest advantage of a diesel is that is fairly weight-insensitive. My truck, empty or with a 2,000-lb load gets the same mileage (if I am careful in starting and stopping; see above). I have not ever been able to do this with a gasoline vehicle. Road speed and aerodynamics of the trailer are the next determinants.

[HiHoAgRV]

I really don't understand the algorithim that is used for the MPG-O-Meter, but I am sure it's not truely using fuel flow (or pulses injected) and wheel rotation to calculate MPG. It's gotta be some average/better/worse estimate. I can run 50 miles HARD and get it down into the mid teens and it only takes a few miles of drafting a big rig to jump back into the low 20's. Some simple math shows that the only way that is posssible it to MAKE fuel while drafting .
Having said that, it's still a usefull tool.