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Old 02-19-2006, 09:13 AM   #15
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I see lots of FFV's down here in Florida. But what good are they? There are no E85 stations down here. I often wonder how many FFV's have ever had E85 in their tanks. I also wonder if the folks that own these vehicles even know that they are FFVs. My father in law has an FFV Ford Ranger. I pointed out the Ford FFV emblem on the tailgate. He didn't know what FFV meant.

E85 and Biodiesel could be a real boon to American agriculture. We need to get the ball rolling faster! Biodiesel is gettning a lot of press down here in North Central Florida, but that is all it's getting. Still no biodiesel fueling stations here, due to the fact that bio is about $1 higher than dino fuel.
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:25 AM   #16
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Lew -- Minnesota has a law on the books requiring 2% biodiesel in all diesel fuels. It would seem there can't be enough deep fryers around to fuel a fleet. The biodiesel source here is soybean and is refined specifically for the fuel market. Unfortunately they've had a hard time putting their finger on some technical and quality issues. Many truckers began to note clogged fuel filters and that law was suspended in mid-December. I found this article about problems interesting. And another. Fish diesel though? Might be welcome in Florida but not Idaho...
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:42 AM   #17
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Why does this sound like the vegetable equivalent of strip mining? Once you change it into heat, CO, CO2, ect, it's just as gone as burning gas. There is nothing renewable about it. It isn't reused to make the field's healthier. How about "organic corn gas". The chemical impact of growing crops for these on the soil and water will be high.
I predict here that the "price per mile driven including repairs and live of vechile will be the same". People drive too much and too fast.
I'm for a BTU ration. Use it how you want, sell some, buy some.
Until solar panels are cheap and long lived you won't get something for nothing.
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
Just an FYI, and not to start another "GM vs Ford" war, but Ford has been producing flex-fuel vehicles for 10 years now. I had a 96 Taurus, and a 97 Ranger, both flex-fuel vehicles. I was reminded of that fact every time I had to buy parts for either of them.
One thing about Ford vs GM if I remember correctly in my reading was that GM engines allow you to use regular motor oil and use the regular motor oil changing schedule.

We are anticipating holding onto this vehicle for quite a while. Even if we were not able to use or find readily available sources for fuel now, I am thinking it to be a fair consideration in case there is a future fuel crisis and alternatives will have to become popular at that time. I don't want to find myself having to stop motoring or caught short for a free or little cost option.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and keep them coming. As I said I am new to this and only beginning to try to learn about what is or may be involved.

Just as a side thought, have any of the larger travel clubs become involved with the issue? Sure would like to be part of the solution rather than the problem. :-0
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:42 AM   #19
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Have talked to folks who use E85 and they say it depends on price if it is efficient. It gets a lot less mileage than gasoline so they have to buy it a lot cheaper. I drive through the country a lot and it is usually about $1.85 compared to gas which is usually over two bucks. I see new e85 refineries being built around the country as well. One was recently built in Madelia, Mn. I am troubled with hearing that it is subsidized by the govt in order to compete.

In our VW Jedda diesel we burn a lot of biodiesel and have no problems. It does smell different though. That car gets 0ver 40 mpg all of the time. It gets over 50 mpg in summer depending how you drive it.
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:45 AM   #20
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I wanna know why they don't sell this stuff anywhere around here. seems that plenty of time has passed since vehicles were made that can burn it. where is it?
Check out my link in Post #2. There is a link on that site to find locations that sell the E85 blend broken down by state.
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:51 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by lewster
I'm surprised that the 'powers-that-be' haven't invested more time promoting bio-diesel. You can grow all you want in the form of seed-to-oil, Archer/Daniels/Midland already has the processing capacity, our farmers won't need to get paid subsidies to grow nothing, and we can tell the A-rabs to keep their dino oils. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

A-n-d.........the engine technology already exists!!! Soooooooo, what's the problem????
Brazil has been running on eco-fuel technology for years. I saw a special on PBS about it back last month. The cost of the eco-based fuels was about half of that of dino juice. They also stated that the cars performed better on the eco-based fuels, getting better mileage and pumping out more horsepower. This is what the documentary reported. I am no expert about this stuff. I only know how to assemble brand new engines and transmissions in 500,000 sq. ft. facilities!
I think it is "all about the Benjamins". Shell, Exxon, etc... will make the stuff as long as they get rich doing it.
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:55 AM   #22
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and the engines last longer running cleaner?
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:55 AM   #23
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I don't want to find myself having to stop motoring or caught short for a free or little cost option.
Carol,
You will be fine as long as you do not have to drive through any round-abouts, (traffic circles), AKA "the circle of death" to Carol!
Also, once they legalize driving on sidewalks you will be completely legal then!
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Old 02-19-2006, 11:29 AM   #24
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The Danish Connection. . .

E85 fuel is 5% to 12% less efficient than gasoline. It sells for 50 to 60 cents/gal less than gasoline. I think that's an acceptable economic decision. There are over 200 stations selling E85 in Minnesota.

The future for E85 is biomass conversion, using corn stover, woodchips, or cereal stalks. The problem is how to 'open up' the cellulose in these materials so it can be converted to fermentable sugars. The current method is very energy intensive.

The more efficient method would be an enzymatic process to break down cellulose. There are two companies that control 90% of the world market in enzymes.

Both are in Denmark.

Think about that the next time you see an oil rich, middle eastern country banning Danish imports.
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Old 02-19-2006, 11:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattersontoo
Carol,
You will be fine as long as you do not have to drive through any round-abouts, (traffic circles), AKA "the circle of death" to Carol!
Also, once they legalize driving on sidewalks you will be completely legal then!
ARGHHH Lou, I forgot that! Please send a car to pick me up for your Metro Detroit forum get-together. I swear I could have gone round and round that "circle of death" by your house but instead I was forced off and shot through the wrong exit how many times? LOL It's a cross between the autobahn and a motor driven vehicle revolving door. I am still having nightmares!
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Old 02-19-2006, 12:05 PM   #26
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Check out my link in Post #2. There is a link on that site to find locations that sell the E85 blend broken down by state.
I did. it says "not available anywhere in the NE".

why do you suppose that is???
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Old 02-19-2006, 12:24 PM   #27
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I did. it says "not available anywhere in the NE".

why do you suppose that is???
It's because of Teddy Kennedy's long term opposition to ethanol and the companies like ADM that produce it.

Why he is so opposed to ethanol?

Is it because fuel ethanol has 5% gasoline added to it, to make it undrinkable?

He prefers his ethanol mixed with vermouth, not gasoline.
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Old 02-19-2006, 05:05 PM   #28
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i love how some threads.......
are just destined to decline....
mention anything to do with dinosaurs (dna, oil, gm, elected officals)....well....

the locations for white lightin' fuel are mostly midwestern......hello?
where is the corn? sure there are political issues....corn IS politics...

the neat thing about expanding ethanol production to using other cellulose options.....
is getting away from this being a farmers issue...to more a national topic.....

we can drive on trash and compost!!!.....and fryer oil is already headed to the mainstream....

biod. is good, clean d. is good and so on....but cleaner? depends on how dirt is defined.....

e85 in big tow type vehicles?
...well that's a smoke screen from gm to keep the suv craze goin.........

if you believe in green house gasses.......
driving a suv on e85 will actually produce MORE co2....since more gallons will be consumed from point a to point b.....
it's fine in a small hybird as part of a ecco/commuter package....
towing.......nahhhhhhhhhhh.

so low sulfur diesel may be a better choice.....unless you consider nitrogen byproducts...

clearly the diesel motor will be more durable and pull better....
and if you really are worried about a shortage....
get a diesel....it already IS a flexi fuel motor.....

all combustible fuel sources are converted into something else....
and each variety of poo.....
brings some issue....

carol if you really want to make an informed choice for a new t.v. you will need to look way beyond any of the marketing crap (green2yellow) gm or the other energy producing/consuming companies offer...

do you really want to take advice from a company that lost bazillions on its major product, every year?

now, if you're interested in borrowing money....
consult gm on this topic....
their loan/banking divisions are the only company segments that show any profit....for many years past...

see, gm really is in the GREEN business....

hey markdoane....
does than danish enzyme connection have anything to do with dannon yogurt?


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