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Old 06-20-2019, 10:56 AM   #1
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It's 2019, yet route planning tools are abysmal

I have spent the better part of the past two hours trying to do some route planning. Usually we "just follow our nose," but the kiddo wanted to see the St. Louis Arch on the way back to Denver, and I though maybe we'd try a trip that included some planned stops.

Road Tripper ($30 for any real functionality), RV Trip Wizard ($40 to use beyond a "demo" that only lets you do what they want), Good Sam advanced trip planner ($29 paid a couple hours ago but I have no idea how long it will be before they actually process my membership and I can use the functionality), Google Maps (what a joke for anything but commuting), Waze (complete fail for choosing "alternate" and especially "scenic" routes), RVParky.com, etc. All of these have left me wondering what in the world is going on in the world of trip planning these days.

My favorite fail so far was trying to add "The Gateway Arch" or "St. Louis Arch" or anything of the sort to RV Parky... I simply can't. It won't let me. I would think that would be one of the most popular destinations in the Midwest, and I can't add it to my route? What the what?! It shows up on the map when you zoom way in (once you've found the location via Google and zoom in to that place on the RV Parky map), but if you click on the "Gateway Arch" icon on their map, the only option is "view on Google maps." You can't click to add. You can't drag and drop the icon into your route. It just taunts you with an icon that does you no good in your trip planning. There doesn't seem to be an address for The Arch other than
"The Gateway Arch, St. Louis, MO 63102," but when I type that into the "add destination" field on RV Parky, it gives me two choices in a drop down, one of them being... "The Bahamas."

I would be happy to spend forty or fifty bucks on an application or map that works, but none of the ones that people seem to like let you actually try them out (at least not in a meaningful way) before ponying up your cash.

Looks like I'm back to flying by the seat of my pants. Truth be told, I guess I prefer that method anyway.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:01 PM   #2
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I do agree, the programs used to be better. MapQuest used to work well for us for inserting stops but no longer.

The Arch was a confusing spot to get to and we did it early on a Saturday morning. I had studied the route on Google Earth so we knew where we were going but still had to do it several times and as we weren't in the correct lanes. We also ended up going across the river and finding a small park behind the casino on the east side of the river with a beautiful viewpoint.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:55 PM   #3
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This route planner still works pretty well.

https://www.amazon.com/2018-McNally-...gateway&sr=8-2

No electrical power or Internet connection needed . . . oh . . . you might need a pencil too.

Happy Trails,

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PS -- Easy for the kids to use too!

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Old 06-20-2019, 05:32 PM   #4
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It’s one of the newest national parks, maybe that is screwing the system up somehow?

I agree that trip planning tools need to be better. I had a brilliant idea for one a couple years ago, then I realize that I don’t even know where to start in creating it... gotta learn how to program I suppose?
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidjedi View Post
I have spent the better part of the past two hours trying to do some route planning. Usually we "just follow our nose," but the kiddo wanted to see the St. Louis Arch on the way back to Denver, and I though maybe we'd try a trip that included some planned stops.

... RV Trip Wizard ($40 to use beyond a "demo" that only lets you do what they want), ...
My favorite fail so far was trying to add "The Gateway Arch" or "St. Louis Arch" or anything of the sort to RV Parky... I simply can't. ...

I would be happy to spend forty or fifty bucks on an application or map that works, but none of the ones that people seem to like let you actually try them out (at least not in a meaningful way) before ponying up your cash.

...

I had the same first impression of the Trip Wizard Demo when I was looking for something better than the Good Sam Planner. But I discovered you could actually plan a trip, you just couldn't save it. I added some stops and deleted theirs and then I was planning my trip. The demo may not work the same way now.


At that time they offered a trial period after you bought. You could cancel and get a refund if you didn't like it. I went for it and have been using it ever since.


I just started a trip and put in Gateway Arch and it took me right there.


Try it, and cancel if you don't like it, if they still offer that option. In my opinion it is the best thing out there.


Al
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:31 PM   #6
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I recently updated the radio in my 2006 dodge 2500 (Which I might ad was made before there were smartphones. - That's kind of sobering). I installed a pioneer AVIC-W8500NEX nav system and I absolutely love it. I've used Garmin's desktop route planner before, but it has issues. Using this pioneer is easy and awesome. I simply select my final destination and then add in waypoints as I see fit - even on the fly.

We may be traveling through an unknown city and you can add a waypoint of a restaurant or site you want to see in about 20 seconds. Recalculating the route is incredibly fast and it keeps track of your route (or not, depending on the settings.)

The map updates seem to lag reality by about three to six months, but I've not really had an issue with that. The hardest part was traveling through Dallas when it told us to take a road that wasn't there. Construction had removed it in the last three months.

It's kind of a combination of traveling by the seat of the pants and pre-planning because it's so flexible. If you know your route, you can plan it all out - or do it on the fly.

it also does Apple Car Play and Android Auto wirelessly so it works very well with your smartphone.

I bought mine at crutchfield and the service was excellent in getting it up and running.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:07 PM   #7
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As an aside, if you are not staying overnight in St. Louis, there is a nice RV park/campground in central MO in Columbia. Cottonwoods RV Park.
https://cottonwoodsrvpark.com
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Piggy Bank View Post
As an aside, if you are not staying overnight in St. Louis, there is a nice RV park/campground in central MO in Columbia. Cottonwoods RV Park.
https://cottonwoodsrvpark.com

Stayed there last year on the way to Salem. We enjoyed it. Only stayed one night so didn't get to look around much.


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Old 06-20-2019, 09:25 PM   #9
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I use RVtripwizzard. I don't have any of the difficulties y'all mentioned above. I can add places, add routes , save information and make excellent print outs.

Mississippi is flooding in St Louis right now. Be careful planning on stopping near the water. The I-64 MLK bridge is also closed.

I would stay nearby and visit down town without the trailer. Visit the arch and then go to the Shafly Pump Room for lunch. The zoo is also good.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:26 PM   #10
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PS..... Not anything in East St Louis.
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:01 AM   #11
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I have been using RV Trip Planner for the past 2 years and it has put together sever as l well planned trips of thousands of miles and hundreds of nights on the road. I had a little trouble with a ferry route last year, but the support team resolved it in short order.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:47 AM   #12
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It's 2019, yet route planning tools are abysmal

Another rvtripwizard user here, recommend it.

As for the Arch, we just spent a few weeks in St Louis and they are dealing with floods. Flood water was approaching the arch 2 weeks ago. May want to call ahead.

There are three nice campgrounds close to Eureka, MO just outside St Louis, the KOA, Jellystone (right by Six Flags) and Pin Oak.

KOA was full, but here are links to the ones we stayed in.

https://www.campjellystone.com/park/...reka-six-flags

https://pinoakcreekrvpark.com
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:59 AM   #13
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Drive Time Calculator

kidjedi,

I feel the same way about the apps... too frustrating. I use an old fashioned Rand McNally Road Atlas and "I want to see that" or "stay there" approach to trip planning along with Google Earth, Drive Time Calculator and whatever else I need. Planning the trip, for me, is part of the journey. I take as much time as I need for routing. Once I decide where I want to go, I use the Drive Time Calculator to enter everything. You can also rough calculate the cost of fuel for the trip, miles, avg mpg and other stuff. The DTC is at:

www.free-online-calculator-use.com/drive-time-calculator.html#calculator

Another tool I've used is distance between stops for initial rough estimate of where I want to rest, get fuel, eat, stretch, etc. 👍🏼
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:17 AM   #14
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Sites near the Arch

Look at the sites in St Charles Mo. Can't remember the name(Sudemeir?) but we stayed there both going and coming to Yellowstone. This is a suburb of St Louis and is near a most interesting Lewis and Clark museum.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:43 AM   #15
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I keep saying Apple's Next Big Thing would be a universal GPS/stereo/voice-recognition system for vehicles.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:34 AM   #16
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Although I have paid for RV Trip Wizard, I've NEVER been able to get a trip planned as I find the interface to be a super kludge; not even CLOSE to being "intuitive" or user friendly. Trip Wizard did an auto-renew and, I got dinged again (I've since changed my PayPal settings to stop this). I find myself doing ONE LEG at a time using a program like Mapquest or other driving directions app (I have several; NONE of them are really satisfactory as far as I'm concerned). Then add the fact that some (many?) GPS apps are moving from a one-time purchase to a subscription-based ongoing cost scheme make me want to scream. There's a HUGE market for LARGE VEHICLE trip planning that, so far, is NOT being served. The person / company who figures out exactly HOW to serve that market will make a fortune.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:50 AM   #17
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I keep saying Apple's Next Big Thing would be a universal GPS/stereo/voice-recognition system for vehicles.
If you have a smartphone and a car stero that does wireless carplay, you've already got that. I prefer the HERE navigation to apple maps though. it's much more accurate.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:25 PM   #18
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I feel the same way you do about the stupid apps and regret buying any of them. I 've reverted to the self-help approach which is deeply satisfying although it requires a lot of reading and it takes time. But that's what wintry days are for, right? I buy a large updated road atlas every year. I have also purchased at least half a dozen books on Amazon that have helped me figure out where to go, to see, to do i.e. national park books, book of interesting / historical routes going in all directions across the U.S., Corps of Engineers camp book, cheapest campsite book, Lonely Planet USA Travel Guide, etc. The 3"-4" thick Good Sam RV book (big and thick like a phone book) stays in the RV as it has saved me anytime I've been in a remote area with no connectivity. When on the go and need info immediately and I have connectivity, googling a point of interest has also worked well for me.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:31 PM   #19
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I use my AAA membership to get custom trip maps and use their Tourbooks for detailed regional data when push comes to shove.

I use some of the other free apps to find RV related parks, etc. Takes a bit of research, but planning is part of the ‘fun’
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:56 PM   #20
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Re: fighting the planner for inaccurate or non-existent Points if Interests (POI). If your route planning software allows one to enter coordinates, use other sources like Wikipedia, Google Earth, etc to find the coordinates to enter in your planner. Note, if your planning software is using old data, Gateway Arch was actually officially known as Jefferson National Expansion Memorial.

I have a Garmin GPS and use their free companion computer software; Garmin BaseCamp for all my planning

It allows me to do route planning and set up multiple “what if” routes, as one can duplicate an existing route and play with the copy. One can insert route “shaping points” to force a route away from its calculated routing path.

In addition, I also do advance destination planning with it, saving waypoints, such as churches, restaurants, attractions, key shopping places, etc. I can then drag and drop these points and routes from computer to GPS. Great for places you visit frequently, as the data is saved on the computer and you just drag and drop to the GPS when you plan to visit that location.

Since Garmin GPS also saves your actual route traveled, you can copy that information to the computer. I like to keep track using that feature of how many miles I am actually towing, for maintenance purposes.

Additionally, there are web sites(POI Factory) that use crowd sourcing to create importable files for various locations; Costco, KOA, Lighthouses, Man vs Food restaurants, kayak launch ramps, etc. that can be brought into BaseCamp.

Only available to those with Garmin GPS. It’s an offline program and downloading the data can take some time and consumes somewhat more than 1GB for the whole US & Canada on your computer. I much rather plan offline on a nice big computer screen than on a smart phone.

Be forewarned, navigating the program is not very intuitive, there is a significant learning curve. But programs as powerful as this are typically complex (I still struggle with GPS Babel). And not a good solution for doing on the fly changes in your vehicle. If you want “Alexa, take me to Springfield IL KOA via Gateway Arch” this is not for you.


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