I Just Don’t Get Commercial RV Parks

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by dmac

The commercial parks I have visited are as described in the original post. Sites are way too close together (owner maximizing revenue per acre and minimizing utility costs).

Before you criticize the owner for "maximizing his profit" remember that the town or county sees the campground owner as "free revenue" and raises his property tax every year. He also is expected to upgrade to 50 amp service without disturbing any trees and pathways. He has paid someone to man the phone when you call, often himself.
One of my favorite stops in western Kansas is "High Plains Campground" in Oakley. Not much to look at, except it always had room, nice ladies, reasonably priced, flat, long pull through sites, 50 amp service and clean restrooms. I was just pulling in for the night, and they made it easy. Drive in, pull out the power cord and water hose and it's Miller time.

Meanwhile, the ranger at the state park entrance may know nothing about the campground, or give you bad information. "The only spot we have is for 25' and you're 26', sorry." After all, he's not seeing any reward for your satisfaction. Try calling the state park for a spot at 6:30 pm.

I've created a folder "camping" where I keep links to campgrounds you folks rave about. I figure some day, I'll be heading that way and want to have some first hand knowledge.

[OTRA15]

" . . . different strokes for different folks . . . "



[ Moving along here, without any further judgments or energy expenditure . . . ]

[Mollysdad]

I'd still like to find a commercial campground who has amenities in one section and a empty lot where folks who just want to sleep before moving on, no services. $15-$20 a night, but secure.

[75Bob]

Over 5,000 new RV vehicles were sold just last year according to RV Magazine. Compared to less than 10 RV Parks and 0 state and national parks being built. East and West coast state and national parks require either a long wait in line at 4am. or 7 months reservations. This is also why there's way more traffic on the roads, supply and demand. Everyone now wants what you want, peace and serenity.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'd still like to find a commercial campground who has amenities in one section and a empty lot where folks who just want to sleep before moving on, no services. $15-$20 a night, but secure.

I'm honestly just curious (not trying to be contrary), how would that be different from (say) staying at a Cracker Barrel or rest area with ordinary police patrols?

Granted, Cracker Barrel and other businesses that allow overnight parking generally do not have their own private security (with the exception of most casinos), but then neither do many commercial and public parks.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by sajohnson

I'm honestly just curious (not trying to be contrary), how would that be different from (say) staying at a Cracker Barrel or rest area with ordinary police patrols?

I never felt exposed in a campground. Usually people coming and going were staying there and had to pass through a gate at night. In a rest area, or public parking lot you have all kinds of strangers passing through.
Maybe it's just me, but I never felt safe sleeping in a Walmart lot.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Rgentum

Spring a year ago, my sweetie and I ventured out from Seattle to visit her sister in Pueblo, CO, my son in San Antonio, and my daughter in Los Angeles. I knew dealing with the Ram/Cummins and its 28 ft AS would be problematic in LA, so I looked for an RV park on its outskirts and found what I recall was named California RV Resort, on the LA side of Lancaster/Palmdale, in the Antelope Valley, north of LA (and the San Fernando Valley). A little pricey, but we didn't have much in the way of alternatives.

The RV park was huge, consisting on one side of a hundred plus sites for drive-in RVs and on an adjacent side of a hundred plus sites of permanently placed, long-term RVs --- all on one side of a rather steep hill. All of the sites, both transient and permanent, were cheek by jowl; you almost had to turn right or left immediately upon exiting your RV not to bump into the next RV over. And, yup, the "resort" had a swimming pool, perhaps around 10 ft x 15 ft. The place was clean and pleasant, and the women in the office were bubbly and sparkling.

All in all, however, I prefer the national, state, & county parks in the NW, particularly those in OR. The powers that be in OR go out of their way in supporting an outdoor lifestyle. Would you believe that decades ago, the OR legislature past a bill, signed by the governor, making the entire OR coastline, beaches and all, a public highway. None of this east coast or California "private beach" with no trespassing signs and restricting fences. In OR, its beaches belong to all, and there are numerous and remarkable state parks along the coast from the Columbia River (the northern OR/WA boundary) to the CA border.

California beaches -- the entire 1,100 mile coastline -- are all technically public land, from the "mean high tide line seaward".

There is however a lot of confusion and fighting over access to some beaches that abut private land. Some landowners are scofflaws who disregard direct orders from the state gov't to allow access. Legal battles ensue...

There is plenty of beach that is easily accessible, and some of the beaches that people attempt to block access to can simply be walked to to once you are on the beach.

Here is some info:

https://www.kqed.org/w/coastalclash/recreation.html
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...630-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me...630-story.html
https://www.dailynews.com/2016/07/07...-free-for-all/

"Decades-old California law is quite precise about who owns the state's spectacular coastline: Everything below the mean high tide line over the previous 18.6 years belongs to the public. That means, in effect, that everyone has a right to walk on wet sand, anywhere (OK, outside of the boundaries of a few military installations).":
https://www.citylab.com/life/2013/05...g-public/5724/

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I never felt exposed in a campground. Usually people coming and going were staying there and had to pass through a gate at night. In a rest area, or public parking lot you have all kinds of strangers passing through.
Maybe it's just me, but I never felt safe sleeping in a Walmart lot.

That's completely understandable.

We try to avoid Walmarts, but primarily because they are usually noisy -- near a major highway; parking lot sweepers; kids with loud cars, etc. Also, depending on the area, some of the people can be kinda scary looking. As you mentioned, there are generally a lot of strangers passing through.

That said, in all of the traveling we've done, we've done a lot of dry camping and never once had trouble. Of course, that's just anecdotal experience from an anonymous member of an Internet forum...

Seriously though, I've been a member of various RV forums for years now, some going on a decade. I've read thousands of posts, and I do not recall even one in which the person described being robbed or assaulted in any way. With all of the RVs out there I'm sure it has happened, but judging by the lack of forum posts and news reports, it is exceedingly rare.

We prefer Cracker Barrels for dry camping because they are generally in a decent neighborhood -- quieter (although still some noise from the Interstate); usually there are chain hotels and residential areas nearby. They close at 10pm so there is no one driving thru the lot. I'm sure there are options that are similar -- like HD; Lowes, etc. Basically, any mall or store that is not open 24/7 and is in a decent neighborhood (assuming of course that they allow overnight parking). Some people say hospital parking lots are good -- safe, generally quiet -- but I'm not sure that they got permission. Maybe they did, but my impression was that they just parked in an out-of-the-way spot. Church parking lots are another option I've heard mentioned.

The last thing I want to do is make you feel less safe, but while parks may have a gate, many/most of them are open and unmanned after a certain time -- usually around 5-8pm. After that, anyone can drive in and out. There is very little, if any, security. The emphasis seems to be on revenue collection -- the ranger(s) or park employees come around early in the morning to make sure the late arrivals have paid. As for regular nighttime patrols -- not so much.

We live in an old log cabin in the woods. My wife is from a suburb of Baltimore. When she first moved here she was very afraid, especially at night, because it is dark and there are no neighbors close by. I told her that personally, I would be more concerned in the area where she grew up! I guess my point is, our perception of what is potentially dangerous depends on what we're used to.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by 75Bob

Over 5,000 new RV vehicles were sold just last year according to RV Magazine. Compared to less than 10 RV Parks and 0 state and national parks being built. East and West coast state and national parks require either a long wait in line at 4am. or 7 months reservations. This is also why there's way more traffic on the roads, supply and demand. Everyone now wants what you want, peace and serenity.

I'm surprised that number isn't much higher.

It's certainly getting worse. The baby boom generation has reached retirement age.

We've given up on the major national parks because they are just too crowded -- and we travel in the spring and fall, while schools are in session (the 'shoulder season'). I can't imagine what they must be like from June thru August.

Our other concern (somewhat unrelated to this thread) is that -- understandably in most cases -- most national parks are not 'dog friendly'. Dogs can only be waked along roads and in parking lots.

In any case, we haven't had to wait in line starting before dawn to get a campsite at any state parks (there is no way I would do that) -- but that's probably because of when we travel.

Actually, I take that back, there have been a handful of instances -- the parks along the beach on the Florida panhandle are impossible to get into. We got lucky at Valley of Fire and got an excellent site -- one of just 2-3 left.

Generally speaking though, we haven't had much trouble with state parks.

The 'crown jewel' national parks are another story. Until recently they generally weren't bad in the shoulder seasons. We have photos of our rig in huge empty parking lots on beautiful spring and fall days. In the last few years though, it seems like the famous national parks are always packed, regardless of whether kids are in school or not.

[Ronman]

That’s why they make chocolate and Vanilla ice cream.

[Overstreet]

Yes, we've been to RV parks with high density. I usually pick them when staying only a night or two. I find it more comfortable than a hotel. Better cable reception than a remote site. Have 50 amp service so I can run more stuff. Easier to leave in the morning.

The hook ups are always better than at WalMart.

Our more favorite places have better spacing, amenities and activities.

[Len n Jeanne]

John and Vickie,

We actually decided to stay small (19') when we purchased Bambi the Second precisely so that we could get into the smaller sites in public lands campgrounds. Even if they have some big rig sites, these tend to fill up quickly during the high season.

We've stayed in RV resorts like the one you mentioned, for a few nights, but usually for a specific, targeted purpose, not because we want the Big Parking Lot style of camping.

We prefer the smaller, small town RV parks when we're on the road and there's no nearby public campground. They're more accessible, cheaper, and still have the laundry facilities if we need them. In BC where we live, there are also a lot of small municipal campgrounds, typically right on a lake or river.

Surprisingly, some KOAs fit this small town definition. For example, there's a nice one in Manila, Utah for anyone visiting Flaming Gorge, although this area does offer nearly unlimited dispersed camping (that we didn't know about till we got there.)

We don't do Walmart.

[TheOhioSean]

I've found commercial campgrounds usually have tighter site spacing than public campgrounds, but some commercial campgrounds do offer adequate separation, and some public campgrounds are tighter than I'd wish. I think it often comes down to a matter of money. The cost of land to permit the same number of sites with twice the spacing might simply be economically impossible - and wider spacing for the same number of sites also incurs additional costs for roads and utilities. The cost of building the commercial campground must has a reasonable timeframe to return the investment cost, but with public money involved a public campground doesn't face quite the same limitations.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by TheOhioSean

I've found commercial campgrounds usually have tighter site spacing than public campgrounds, but some commercial campgrounds do offer adequate separation, and some public campgrounds are tighter than I'd wish. I think it often comes down to a matter of money. The cost of land to permit the same number of sites with twice the spacing might simply be economically impossible - and wider spacing for the same number of sites also incurs additional costs for roads and utilities. The cost of building the commercial campground must has a reasonable timeframe to return the investment cost, but with public money involved a public campground doesn't face quite the same limitations.

Good points.

I'm sure money and ROI are usually the main factors.

At the end of the day it's the free market at work. Commercial "campground" owners make their business decisions and RVers decide where they'd like to stay.

From what we've seen, plenty of people are choosing commercial campgrounds and "RV resorts". Apparently people are not bothered by being packed in like sardines -- or at least are willing to put up with it.

Nothing wrong with that, but personally, DW and I would rather dry camp or boondock than stay in a commercial campground. Many of them look like parking lots with hookups, and the rates I've seen were outrageous.

We've stayed in a grand total of one (1) private campground, and that was because relatives were already there. It was Bar Harbor Campground, just outside Acadia. It was actually pretty nice. It was expensive, but not outrageous.

In short, different strokes. We live in the woods with no neighbors in sight, and that's the way we like it. Unless we need electricity or a dump station, I'd pick an empty Cracker Barrel parking lot over most commercial campgrounds I've seen -- even if the campground was free.

Other people really seem to enjoy a more social setting.

[Dingo Girl]

I live about a mile & a half from our local state park (William Mitchell) & drive by it every day on the way to work. It is pretty with the lakes & canal.
The sites are on top of each other. This would not be my idea of camping. Some of the sites are a stones throw from M115.
When I do finally get to use my trailer I hope to find a few campgrounds that are a bit more spread out.
I can't imagine having to step out of my trailer & into the neighbors.
Just my 2 cents.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Dingo Girl

I live about a mile & a half from our local state park (William Mitchell) & drive by it every day on the way to work. It is pretty with the lakes & canal.
The sites are on top of each other. This would not be my idea of camping. Some of the sites are a stones throw from M115.
When I do finally get to use my trailer I hope to find a few campgrounds that are a bit more spread out.
I can't imagine having to step out of my trailer & into the neighbors.
Just my 2 cents.

It'll come as no surprise that I agree.

The word "camping" certainly has a broad definition. It ranges from hiking the Appalachian Train from end to end or a multi-week wilderness backpacking trip to wheeling a Prevost H3-45 VIP into an exclusive, gated, Gulf Coast community.

DW and I won't be going on multi-week backpacking trips anytime soon. We like going on long day hikes and coming home to our rig, but at the same time we'd prefer to have as much privacy and seclusion as possible -- at least where we are parked for the night.

Sometimes that just isn't possible, and that's OK. Particularly east of the Mississippi River. There is essentially zero BLM land. There are some national forests but they are more spread out.

Where possible though, our ideal is a quiet, remote, boondocking site. Of course if we can get cellular data that's a plus -- we aren't savages!

Others seem to really enjoy socializing with other RVers, and aren't bothered by the lack of privacy in many public -- and particularly private -- parks. We enjoy meeting people while traveling, but at the end of the day we prefer solitude.

Speaking of William Mitchell sites being close to M115, because we had no choice, we stayed at a campground at Beacon Rock SP in Washington that turned out to be right between Hwy 14 and a very active RR track: https://goo.gl/maps/3XY8qphjh3o

Truckers using 'Jake brakes' and freight trains all night long. One of the noisiest places we've ever stayed -- and it was expensive for a state park, about $40 IIRC. It was so bad I spoke with a ranger about it. He was friendly, but his response was that most people *love it*! He said they come back year after year and request those sites!

To each their own...

[John&Vicki]

When I read reviews of commercial RV parks at campgroundreviews.com I like to read the reviews from those staying there in a travel trailer as opposed to reviews from those there in motor homes or fifth wheels. Speaking broadly I think that are some real differences to the experience based on your type of RV. Motor home and large fifth wheel owners have pretty much all of the comforts of home and seem to spend a great deal of time in their rigs. So they don’t mind being parked chock-a-block with one another.

It’s very common to see large MoHo’s with no gear at all outside. They probably are more interested in using camping as a means to achieve other goals, such as travel and sight seeing.

I suspect that for many Airstreamers (and other travel trailers) that camping and simply being outside is one of the goals. Thus you usually see a lot of gear outside of Airstreams at parks.

And I think that there’s a kind of cultural difference between those with smaller bumper hitch trailers and those with larger fifth wheels and motor homes. It would be interested to read a study about the various social dynamics done by a professional sociologist.

Count me as absolutely delighted to own an Airstream.

Cheers,
John

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by John&Vicki

When I read reviews of commercial RV parks at campgroundreviews.com I like to read the reviews from those staying there in a travel trailer as opposed to reviews from those there in motor homes or fifth wheels. Speaking broadly I think that are some real differences to the experience based on your type of RV. Motor home and large fifth wheel owners have pretty much all of the comforts of home and seem to spend a great deal of time in their rigs. So they don’t mind being parked chock-a-block with one another.

It’s very common to see large MoHo’s with no gear at all outside. They probably are more interested in using camping as a means to achieve other goals, such as travel and sight seeing.

I suspect that for many Airstreamers (and other travel trailers) that camping and simply being outside is one of the goals. Thus you usually see a lot of gear outside of Airstreams at parks.

And I think that there’s a kind of cultural difference between those with smaller bumper hitch trailers and those with larger fifth wheels and motor homes. It would be interested to read a study about the various social dynamics done by a professional sociologist.

Count me as absolutely delighted to own an Airstream.

Cheers,
John

Good points.

My hunch is that you are onto something. It would be very interesting indeed to see a sociological study of the behavior of owners of various types and sizes of RVs.

DW and I have a relatively small (24') Sprinter-based class C. It's technically a "motorhome" of course, but there's a world of difference between it and a 45' diesel pusher.

We tend to be travelers more than campers, so we rarely set any gear out -- not because we are hanging out in our little coach but because we're out hiking and sightseeing. Or we're just spending the night and moving on. Our rig doesn't even have an awning (it was damaged when we bought it used) and we haven't missed it.

I have family associated with the UI-Iowa City. I'm going to mention your idea to them as a potential subject of a thesis.

[rmkrum]

Interesting set of thoughts and ideas.

We have also noticed the honking big motor homes just pull in, park, hook up (maybe) and then the occupants are never seen again for the evening. We did attract the attention of one, who came over to chat, and noted that they, "...used to have an Airstream, and were thinking about going that way again." That was just once on several of our long-range runs.

Our typical trips so far have been long range runs to a specific destination, where we stay for several weeks at a time. We typically have not carried camp chairs, grills, extra recreational gear and the like because our activities do not require much more than a safe place to sleep at the end of the day. We very rarely fire up the radio or the TV set in the Airstream other than to check weather on the route.

We do use all the 'comforts' of the Airstream especially the wet bath and the toilet while on the road. We set up late arrivals in KOA campgrounds to suit our travel schedule, but changed schedule due to weather conditions if needed.

When we retire, I expect we will travel very differently, and then the outdoor activities may become more important, the gear load-out will be different and the schedule much more informal.

This could be an interesting study, and I would hope it shows up here when it is done. Keep us posted.

[CBWELL]

We like to travel on the 2 lane highways and stop in the smaller towns to camp for the night. Lots of smaller towns have real nice parks with hook-ups and are usually $20-25 a night. Lots of things to see in some of these places, and that is where we often find some of the best food in the Mom and Pop eateries. It is nice to get off of the Interstates and slow down, wave to the farmers, and see some beautiful country. We find that in many small communities the local police often stop by to visit, and some even join us for a "coffee" in the morning. Often we return to the same towns because of the friendly people. We were camping in a small town in North Dakota this spring and a fellow went by in an old Model A Ford. We waved, and about half an hour later he pulled up to visit. Took us on a tour in the old car and we had a great time. You don't get that happening in a big RV park!! Everybody has their own ideas and things that they enjoy while camping. That is what makes it fun, but "more fun in an Airstream"!! JMHO! Chris