Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-05-2019, 02:01 PM   #1
Toaster Life
 
2008 23' International
Chicago , Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 118
Heads up, Camping Senior Discount at National Parks in jeopardy

We are keen Airstreamers, have a coveted Golden Eagle Pass (yes the old $10 dollar one) and enjoy camping all over the country, with National Parks being our absolute favorite venues.

We know National Park sites are light on services, but we are quite happy to let people who need full hookups go to commercial sites to get the camping experience they want, and leave us to our beautiful inexpensive rustic sites.

I don't have a problem with these services per se, bet the good people at private campsites provide them for those who want them (and are willing to pay for them), but please keep our National Parks rustic and available to all, including those with limited budgets.

Link is below



https://www.theguardian.com/environm...e_iOSApp_Other
__________________

Toasterlife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 02:35 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
2018 30' Classic
Jacksonville , Florida
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 577
You might want to read that again. I could only find that the 50% camping discount on holidays was the only time they mentioned not allowing the discount. They didn't mention eliminating the senior pass discounts.

Personally I find privatized management can be a good thing. Salt Springs Recreation facility in Salt Springs Florida is a National Forest facility it is run by a contractor. They do a better job than the government ever did. They got rid of the old crappy barn of a community center and replaced it with a covered pavilion. They up graded the camp tables, fire pits and lamp holders. They cut down the dying trees. The sites were paved. It is often full, all year. Summer is typically near empty in Florida.

In Florida the governor made the State Parks be more profitable. They upped their marketing campaigns. They improved the state parks. Many of them are now electric (50 amp) , water and sewer hook up. They have been buying some private parks. Yet they still give the seniors their camping discount.

Change isn't always bad.
__________________

Overstreet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 05:00 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
2017 28' International
Baileys Harbor , Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 903
Blog Entries: 1
If the NPS makes camping at the parks more convenient and I have to pay a little more, I would be glad to do it. And frankly I am all for private parties running things. They have a vested interest in fixing, cleaning, and making the experience hassle free. Profit is a great motivator.
Daquenzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 05:16 PM   #4
4 Rivet Member
 
1969 18' Caravel
Greenville , whereEverIroam
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 468
Images: 5
I think the OP's point here is that the National Parks are a project of, by, and for the citizens of this great county. Private campgrounds already exist that provide a full slate of pricier options, but, news flash, not every citizen can afford them.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, just imagine how beautiful the NP system would be if we turned it over to Club Med! We could have manicured Red Wood Forests with impeccable roads. Sure, they would charge a hefty entrance fee to cover all these costs, but, side benefit, (it would keep all those poor undesirable people out)

Gated communities exist for those who'd rather not see the unwashed masses scurry about, after all, as Scrooge said, what are the orphanages for? But I'd rather not turn the USA into a giant gated community, but more Reagan's shining city on a hill, representing the best hope for humanity, an example of what people can do when they come together and dispense with centuries-old class systems and instead build a more perfect union.
skyguyscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 06:10 PM   #5
2 Rivet Member
 
2015 28' Land Yacht
Chapel Hill , North Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 89
Daquenzer, in theory I am also a fan of private enterprise. But some things I do believe should be in the hands of government, including the management and operations of our National Parks. The vested interest part doesn’t always hold true, unfortunately. All too often, towards the end of an outsourcing contract, the private management company, in fact, has little or nothing to lose by letting the facilities deteriorate... it’ll be the problem of the next contract bid winner, or more likely, the tax payers who will pick up the tab to put it back into order. And I. The interim, the private operate will have done everything possible to maximize profit (raise pricing anywhere they contractually can, cut staff and services, etc.).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
If the NPS makes camping at the parks more convenient and I have to pay a little more, I would be glad to do it. And frankly I am all for private parties running things. They have a vested interest in fixing, cleaning, and making the experience hassle free. Profit is a great motivator.
HappyHapgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 06:36 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
2017 28' International
Baileys Harbor , Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 903
Blog Entries: 1
Who’s talking about turning the NPS into a gated community? Whoa.

There is a reason the department of defense hires private contractors. 1). It’s cheaper. 2) It’s more efficient 3.) It’s better.

Granted there are some things only government can do. And those are the things it should do. But running a campground is not one of them. And we aren’t talking gated communities here. We are talking about making sure the campgrounds are clean, kept up, and well organized.

Example: I really like staying in community parks. But the two times I have dealt with them both times they have messed up or lost my reservations. I have yet to have that happen in a privately run park. Maybe my experience is limited. And I’m certainly not saying all privately run campgrounds are good. But it was amazing to me how disorganized the reservation process was in the community parks.

A park campground run by a private party with over sight by a government official could easily do the job well, for less money, and better. The private party is still responsible to meet standards. Also firing a government employee is like climbing Mount Everest. It is an exhausting task. However if a private company doesn’t do the job you get rid of them. No questions asked.

When the government wants to build public roads it hires private contractors. I see no problem with a private company running a public campground.

And by the way that is different than running National Parks. You would be surprised how many private companies are already hired by the government. The Department of Defense isn’t the only one that does it. Our local township and county hires private parties all the time to do tasks.
Daquenzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 09:32 PM   #7
4 Rivet Member
 
1969 18' Caravel
Greenville , whereEverIroam
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 468
Images: 5
I take your point about the inefficiencies of public entities; we all hate the DMV (though I note they have improved slightly over the years). Getting things done via government is indeed often a long and arduous process.

BTW, I think you might want a different exempler than the DOD/military-industrial complex to tout the virtues of private enterprise. LockMart, Boeing, General Dynamics, Raytheon, et. al. whose names and projects like the V-22, the F-35, the A-12, the B-2, etc. are synonymous with delays and cost-overruns, you had me laughing out loud reading that.

But what makes me skeptical about private companies taking over erstwhile public projects is the uneven history of such experiments. Strapped state governments off-loading expensive roads to companies that then charge high tolls while the concrete crumbles; college loan programs that defy both spirit and letter of their charter and continue to collect debts that should have been forgiven and ruin the lives and livelihoods of our fellow citizens; housing contracts that make landlords rich, but have tenants, some of them military families, living in squalid, unhealthy hovels, and private jails (!) that ... well let's just say if you have to be incarcerated ever, you don't want to go there. There seem to be countless examples such as these, where examples of real success seem to be more the exception than the rule.

It reminds me of a quote attributed to Lilly Tomlin: "No matter how cynical I get, I can never keep up."

To be sure, there are numerous hotels and campsites in our NPS run by private companies. Some of the more famous hotels were recently renamed when a different company took over management -- the outcry was so great, they changed their names back. (the previous companies claimed they owned the names) Speaking of which, I hope to never visit the IBM presents Exxon-Mobile Grand Canyon, sponsored by Amazon.
skyguyscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 09:58 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
2015 30' FB FC Bunk
Ayer , Massachusetts
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,053
I’m all for it. I take my family to the National Parks every other year via Airstream.

We are 5 Percenters.

95% of the visitors goto 5% of the Park, and 5% of the Visitors goto 95% of the Park.

Meaning we go off into the backcountry vs the most visited areas.

Many of the Parks could use upgrades, I see that as a positive and in no way a harm to the remote beautiful areas.
Ted S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 11:43 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,796
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Hi, if I go to a National Park it's not because it is cheaper. I want to see and do things, there or nearby. Even if it's FREE, some people still can't afford it. There is always going to be things that some people can't afford or they aren't willing to pay the price for.
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 07:23 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar

 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Melbourne Beach , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,698
Contractors who manage national forests are already free to do as they wish with Senior Passes. Several years ago we went to a campground in the Ocala National Forest. We were told that there was no discount for camping and regarding the per-person entry fee to the forest, one person could get in free but the other, even with their own pass, had to pay. When I checked into it the free entry and discounts were only guaranteed at facilities operated directly by the government.

Al
__________________

"You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"

Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO
2002 Classic 30 Slideout
S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
2001 Safari 25 RB Twin (Gone, but not forgotten)
WBCCI 1322, TAC FL-39, AIR 82265

Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 07:52 AM   #11
4 Rivet Member
 
2015 28' International
Ofallon , Missouri
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 438
We frequent NPs and I am happy to pay the annual fee to support this awesome resource. I’d be happy to pay a bit more if the extra went to upgrades.
__________________
2015 28' International
mpsgolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 11:05 AM   #12
1 Rivet Member
 
2019 27' Tommy Bahama
Las Vegas , Nevada
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
I love this thread, think it is a great idea to allow for entrepreneurs to come into the National Parks and spruce it up. I'm sure #Gov would love that too. More revenue to tax, keep the parks looking great. Last visit to Yosemite was a huge disappointment. Facilities were dated, overpriced. Now if we could only do something about the VA. ��
Knotflying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 11:58 AM   #13
1 Rivet Member
 
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Mesquite , Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 16
We spent many nights last summer in National Parks, usually paid $10-$15 dollars with senior pass or about the price of two fast food meals or lot parking at a ballgame. $10 - $15 might be inline with tent camping but most Airstream rigs w/ TV are north of $100k and I think most of us can afford a realistic rate. It may help ease overcrowding as campers would be less likely to "hog" each site for two weeks.

Many of these parks were lovely however deferred maintainance was obvious every where you looked. At Tahoe we paid for two sights because none would accommodate 23fb & Grand Cherokee TV, a swimming pier was closed due to dilapidation. Whether it is NPS or private concessionaires more revenue is needed for upkeep and improvements while avoiding costly boondoggles.

I would be interested as well in how much luxury tour buses pay.
Ken G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 12:16 PM   #14
2 Rivet Member
 
Parker , williamdcrockett
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Here is the only paragraph in the article that mentions senior discounts. “ The committee would also prohibit seniors from using 50% discounts on campsites during “peak season periods”, like Fourth of July.

National Park Service spokeswoman Stephanie Loeb said the panel was terminated last week and that “no action has been taken on the committee’s recommendations, and once the report is fully reviewed, we will respond as appropriate.”

So discounts, if they go away, will only be denied during peak use. I do not want to be in any National Park on holidays because they are to crowded so this it not a big deal for me.

A quote from Mark Twain. “The things I worried about most in my life never happened“. I will worry about it when it happens and I want to be in a crowded park.
wcrockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 01:16 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
2011 23' Flying Cloud
Durango , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toasterlife View Post
We are keen Airstreamers, have a coveted Golden Eagle Pass (yes the old $10 dollar one) and enjoy camping all over the country, with National Parks being our absolute favorite venues.



We know National Park sites are light on services, but we are quite happy to let people who need full hookups go to commercial sites to get the camping experience they want, and leave us to our beautiful inexpensive rustic sites.



Well it would only be a matter of time before the current administration would look at taking what is ours - our National Parks, and look for a way to help their cronies make an extra buck at our expense... and now its coming to the NPS. The proposal is to drop the senior discounts, and add all sorts of bells and whistles to the campsites, for a fee of course, Amazon deliveries, wi-fi, etc.



I don't have a problem with these services per se, bet the good people at private campsites provide them for those who want them (and are willing to pay for them), but please keep our National Parks rustic and available to all, including those with limited budgets.



Link is below







https://www.theguardian.com/environm...e_iOSApp_Other


I have found concessionaire operated NP campgrounds to be highly variable. Crater Lake NP is a recent experience in inefficiency and ‘could care less’ attitude by the concessionaire. Gulf Shores Nat’l Seashore Davis Bayou CG had NO hosts or attending Rangers this summer. It’s all dependent upon the contract and oversight by the NPS. The NPS is starved for funding, and facilities are deteriorating. Turning our Public Lands into KOA’s is not the answer, however. We need a Dept. of Interior that respects the environment and is not eager to hand over our public lands to extractive industries. The outlook is poor under the current administration. I support the efforts of NPCA and others to protect our public lands from destructive exploitation.
__________________
Safe Travels,
Joe & Joan Donnaway
Durango, CO
JamuJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 01:26 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
1986 31' Sovereign
Miami , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,124
Blog Entries: 13
On a different note, the Fishing Bridge RV park in Yellowstone was allowed by the concessionaire to pretty much fall apart (brownouts, swimming pool sized potholes) before the the level of complaints became so loud and strident that they were forced to shut it down and rebuild.
__________________
new (usually dirty) Nissan Titan XD (hardly paid for)
Old (enhanced with "male pattern baldness") Sovereign
Young, lovely bride
Goofy dog, dismissive cat
n2916s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 02:06 PM   #17
2 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Worthington , Minnesota
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 88
George Bush, 43, talked about this and other ideas, it never materialized. Obama had similar ideas. Others previous also spouted the same silly rhetoric! Look at the USPS mess! Will Rogers, I believe, put it best, 'Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for,' The only way to prevent these things from happening is to unite, form alliances, and/or join a group that is truly dedicate to accountability - not to high executive salaries and little proceeds to the real cause. Aldo Leopold said, 'To truly make a difference contribute your time not your money to a cause.' There really is no reason that we the people cannot be in charge of a government that we elect. Anyone ever read Thomas Paine, 'Man is not born into a society.....'
__________________
If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Will Rogers
Renascence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 03:41 PM   #18
4 Rivet Member
 
2015 30' International
FREDERICK , Maryland
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsgolf View Post
We frequent NPs and I am happy to pay the annual fee to support this awesome resource. I’d be happy to pay a bit more if the extra went to upgrades.
Me as well, the National Parks are sorely underfunded as it is.
Doc Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 03:44 PM   #19
2 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Worthington , Minnesota
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 88
Then where is the, 'will of the people.' ??
Action often produces results, but complaints get us no where.
__________________
If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Will Rogers
Renascence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 04:45 PM   #20
4 Rivet Member
 
SilverWind's Avatar
 
2017 25' International
1968 17' Caravel
Los Osos , California
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
If the NPS makes camping at the parks more convenient and I have to pay a little more, I would be glad to do it. And frankly I am all for private parties running things. They have a vested interest in fixing, cleaning, and making the experience hassle free. Profit is a great motivator.
The private concessionaires at Pinnacles National Park campground have done an abysmal job at keeping facilities clean, repaired and updated.. The previous contractor did absolutely no repairs to restroom, showers etc for the years that they were there. The sanitary dump station was down for nearly a year. The current concessionaire has not indicated that anything will change. They want to lay the blame on the NPS and vice versa.

In theory, profit is a great motivator.....and if you let everything go to pot and blame it on the NPS you can apparently cruise to your next formal contract negotiation before having to answer to the NPS on issues brought to the NPS primarily via public testimony.
__________________

SilverWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pink Flamingo on Jeopardy! SteveSueMac Off Topic Forum 0 12-18-2015 06:28 PM
Best sources for information on state parks, national parks etc. pandjg On The Road... 15 04-24-2014 02:08 PM
Moraine View 2009 Rally in Jeopardy jcanavera Forum Rallies & Meet Ups 58 03-15-2009 11:20 PM
Jeopardy! and Wally Byam Tom Randall WBCCI Forum 8 02-04-2007 10:18 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
×