Go slow... Not!

[SteveSueMac]

OP's entire premise is deeply flawed. I don't care what speed you're going - including 0 at a red light - never ever EVER look at your phone while in the driver's seat. Period. EVER.

As for the rest of the dissertation, no thanks. Physics beats you every time. Silliest supposition ever.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

[ snip ] Race car drivers know that the ability of one car to stop right before the turn makes the difference between first place and losing. [ snip ]

This nonsense was not written by a racer. I guarantee it.

[NWGetaways]

Also, if circumstances find you driving under the influence, you should drive as fast as possible in order to reduce your exposure time.

[ohmman]

Originally Posted by NWGetaways

Also, if circumstances find you driving under the influence, you should drive as fast as possible in order to reduce your exposure time.

I didn't want to be first to bring it up, but OP's argument reminds me of the old standby: "I drive better when I'm drunk because I pay closer attention!"

[cameront120]

The faster you're driving, the less likely the pedestrian or cyclist you hit is to survive. Reduced speeds save lives. #Visionzero Thankfully, driving isn't a right and abusers of the privilege can have it revoked.

[Boxite]

You can go too slow as many times as you want. You can go too fast only once.

There's no logic to his suppositions. (I love his "proof-of-argument" of 2 cops in a car. jeeesh. The only time I've seen two cops in a car was in the television movies...."Car 54 Where Are YOUuuuuu? .)
What a waste of time reading and replying, and here I am doing it too....

Oh. Wait. It's a full moon and 1:20 AM.....

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by cameront120

The faster you're driving, the less likely the pedestrian or cyclist you hit is to survive. Reduced speeds save lives. #Visionzero Thankfully, driving isn't a right and abusers of the privilege can have it revoked.

I don't think there's a safe speed to hit a cyclist or pedestrian. Simply falling off a bicycle can be fatal. I have learned to also be careful along any bus route for people darting across the road to make the bus. I always give half a lane to cyclists, or wait if there's oncoming traffic.

[xrvr]

Two cops in a car was and might still be common practice in some jurisdictions.

[carlc]

I do not use the phone, look at the GPS, search for whats open ahead of me, I'm driving, that is what my wife does, that way we don't argue, I just go where she says... Carl

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Utah Man

Interesting thread, one I won't wade in too deep in terms of opinion and critique. I would second a previous post on the importance of periodic driver education or training, like the Smiths Driving System (mentioned above) we use at work to train all drivers. I like it and believe it helps our fleet of drivers avoid serious accidents (animal strikes being the most common problem for us, along with striking stationary objects while backing or parking in lots and convenience stores.)

In any event, here's a real classic video on Smith's, something that might be older than your vintage AS. It pretty well summarizes the system as taught today.

I realize that most drivers rate themselves as well above average, which is fascinating in and of itself.

Safe travels and regards,

Ron

What an awesome video. I learned to drive in a car just like the video, and remember learning the "smith system" in school. It's gotten more complicated applying the principals with today's higher speeds and close following distances but the space cushion method is very useful when towing something. The other concept in the video that is ignored today is staying out of the way of others. It seems people us the passing lane to "enforce" the speed limit which causes traffic to bunch up.

By the way, the "horn and lights" trick will get you in trouble nowadays lol.

I'm always amazed when driving I-94 in the rural areas how cars and semi trucks line up doing 75 mph less than a car length apart. Recently we had a multiple fatality crash when a pack of cars drove into a snow squall and one spun out. I'm guessing they were all pretty close together when it happened.

Anyway, thanks for posting the video. Noticed that '63 Galaxie had 40 miles on it in the video. The odometer on mine has been around twice. Possibly the best car I've ever owned!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by carlc

I do not use the phone, look at the GPS, search for whats open ahead of me, I'm driving, that is what my wife does, that way we don't argue, I just go where she says... Carl

Ford's SYNC system does everything hands-free with no more distraction than adjusting the climate controls etc.

I learned to fly with the map in my lap, calculating wind drift and drawing course lines, tuning VORs, looking up frequencies, tuning the radio, and listening to my instructor drone on and on, while near some pretty busy airports. Sometimes I can still hear her! Distractions are part of driving. Today it's the phone, yesterday it was two kids in the back seat. Drivers who can't manage an occasional distraction may want to hang up their keys.

[SteveSueMac]

There's a difference between managing distractions (kids crying in back seat) and creating them (reading/texting on your phone).

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

There's a difference between managing distractions (kids crying in back seat) and creating them (reading/texting on your phone).

If pressing the phone button on the steering wheel to answer a call, or looking at the gps in the dash is a problem and turning around to attend to kids is not a problem, there is a driver problem. Hopefully that person doesn't adjust the heater, pick their nose, or grab a Kleenex. Turning around to take care of crying kids not somehow justifiable either. I raised four and pulled over if necessary.

Sorry, I see too much crappy driving on my long daily drive. I see people texting and swerving all over, eating food and missing their lane, reading the paper (I was rear ended by a lady reading the paper), setting up videos for the kids in back, etc. but I also see people who drive rock solid while on the phone, using gps, etc. The secret, as in the video, is managing distractions. They're a fact of life.

[Lumatic]

Everyone knows that when you are drunk you are less likely to be seriously injured in a crash because your body is relaxed. Also, seat belts will trap you in your vehicle in a crash.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

If pressing the phone button on the steering wheel to answer a call, or looking at the gps in the dash is a problem and turning around to attend to kids is not a problem, there is a driver problem. Hopefully that person doesn't adjust the heater, pick their nose, or grab a Kleenex. Turning around to take care of crying kids not somehow justifiable either. I raised four and pulled over if necessary.



Sorry, I see too much crappy driving on my long daily drive. I see people texting and swerving all over, eating food and missing their lane, reading the paper (I was rear ended by a lady reading the paper), setting up videos for the kids in back, etc. but I also see people who drive rock solid while on the phone, using gps, etc. The secret, as in the video, is managing distractions. They're a fact of life.

I think we're arguing about the same things 😀

Let's look at these...

Pressing a button on a steering wheel is likely not an issue. Being engaged in a deep conversation can challenge one's ability to fully concentrate on the job at hand (that is - safely getting from point A to B).

GPS - it amazes me that manufacturers haven't put them where the speedo and other dials/indicators go. It's just terrible design to have them in the center of the dash. That being said - usually, your GPS talks to you giving you advanced directions verbally which are directly tied to your task at hand. I personally don't see that as a distraction, I see it as a support to the task but understand how others might see that differently.

Turning around to tend to kids - I don't have kids so I haven't had that experience. If there are 2 adults in the front seat, I would hope the one not driving at the time is dealing with that issue. Otherwise, as you suggested later, pull over to take care of them.

That some people have avoided disaster texting and driving doesn't change the odds. You can flip a coin and get heads 49 times in a row - your odds are still 50/50 on that next toss. I agree with you that distractions are unavoidable and safe defensive drivers need to manage those distractions. I would also suggest that safe defensive drivers won't create those distractions either.

[kb0zke]

Interesting thread.

Take-aways: 1. Drive at a speed that is appropriate for ALL conditions. That includes not only weather, but also whether or not you are towing, traffic, possible distractions, familiarity with the area, etc. 2. Driving too slowly can be as much of a danger as driving too fast. 3. Having a navigator is a big help.

I tend to drive about 60 with an RV. That's what I did when we had the mpg, that's what I do with the Foretravel, and that's what I'll do when we get the Airstream. For planning purposes I use an average speed of 50 mph and a maximum driving day of five hours or 250 miles. We like to leave somewhere between 8 and 9 in the morning and arrive at the campground early afternoon.

I'm fortunate enough to have Jo Ann doing the navigating (she won't drive the Foretravel, which is one reason why we're selling it). I sometimes have to remind her that there is no blue line on the highway, but we always manage to get where we're going. When she is driving I'm the navigator. In heavy traffic the navigator also watches outside for any hazards and calls them out.

One other tidbit: I recently bought an Apple Watch and found out that if we use my phone for navigation my Watch will alert me slightly before the phone does about an upcoming turn.

[rodsterinfl]

hmm. well, while passing through Bradenton, FL where 275 and I 75 converge,once upon a time, I picked up speed to match traffic ( with the 16" wheels I am not limited to 65mph). While driving in that area there are many lanes 8-10 or so. I always watch the car in front and the one in front of him per se. So, some guy in a little Jap hot rod zoomed up beside me on the right and then darted right in front of me. Ok, then he slammed on the brakes to look over and check out the next lane on the left! I slammed on the brakes and the squealing was awful. The trailer did about a 25 degree angle to one side and I was freaked. Now I travel through there at 60mph regardless of traffic- they can go around and I will stop quicker if need be.

[slowmover]

Is the point to "speeding" to arrive sooner? What end is served? More time with the TV channel changer?

Given that these RVs are the worst handling and braking rigs on the highways (trailers with electric drum brakes, and failure by owners to set WDH properly; as well as specifying a poor TV for the job, namely pickups) one would think some analysis of travel speed had been made to compare ACTUAL travel time versus travel speed.

Engine run time is that answer. The engine hour meter. From start to finish. Versus distance. What was the average travel mph? (Keep this simple and use Interstate travel only).

Attendant notes are: number of lane changes. Braking events. Acceleration events. Record all of them. Higher = worse performance by operator.

Next is number of times another vehicle stays a four-count within 200-feet of the front bumper (as slowing is required). Any at all is a problem. (Overtaking and within 300' is another).

Vehicle longevity, reliability, fuel economy and safety are on the same page. To plan for any of those is to plan for the others, somewhat ironically. A better approach pays for itself over the long term. Use these advantages.

As a rule of thumb, 5-6/mph UNDER the posted speed limit works best for maintaining vehicle distances. 55-65/mph is pretty much the upper range for 90% of the pickup truck & trailer combos (That would be YOU).

Under 60-mph is best for fuel economy (and longest vehicle component life). It's already "natural".

Five under is also good for posted ramp speeds. Coming into a city. Aim at five under latest speed limit or "suggestion" to maintain spacing. Which equals control. Always With the trailer lane-centered. Never braking into a turn or during a curve. Etc.

If one passes but one vehicle in a day, that's about right for a day on the Interstate with a 61-mph travel speed.

If someone is passing slowly, let them get up alongside and drop speed from 62 back to 55. Learn how to maximize that 200' spacing when they cut back over. Experiment as to when to back off. Manage the thing.

Etc. Spacing is not optional.

Note that your AVERAGE speed won't differ much at all from someone above 65-mph (where the speed limit allows it).

Do the numbers. Don't lie to yourself.

1) What end is served by traveling above 65-mph?

2) What "time was saved" versus traveling at 61-mph (or 6-mph under)? Documented. I'd genuinely like to see the difference on a 3-400/mile day. (Clue: not significant).

3) Number of times brakes used and lanes changed for a given day? Number of times other vehicles were within 200' of the front bumper and duration? (As fidelity to safety, thus documented, not fudged with "feelings" about skill at the wheel. Get the number).

Any decent trip plan has a destination. As well as stops for food, fuel and rest breaks. Do this the night before. Then the day of travel is simply knocking off legs of similar determined length.

One doesn't "make time" by traveling faster. Controlling the length of the breaks is key for X-miles over Y-distance in Z-time. Average mph is "high" for a vacationer at 50-mph. But it's what truckers use. Short breaks are mandatory for them.

The distance given per day is what matters most. "Planned stops" is control of time. Travel speed = safe traveling (per above factors) as it correlates with maintaining maximum vehicle spacing.

It's always a lower speed than the posted limit as well as avoidance of packs of idiots forming up and traveling thus for miles at a time. Traffic doesn't force you together nearly as much as simple-minded adherence to "this is my speed!!!"

Bad as distractions are, with these rigs it is lousy handling and braking distances. Thus peripheral vision is enormous. Higher speeds reduce mirror use per mile travelled. The packs then form around you. Which is really stupid to have allowed. Even when they form around you at 61. Back off.

Do the testing. It's an adult thing. A sixteen year old got the drivers license. Time to kick him out of the drivers seat.

A multi day trip to arrive in a different part of the country is exactly what this post was about. Know your average speed for given conditions, and the rest is easy as to trip planning.

The end is the beginning: We arrive at Point B by no later than (clock time). Thus with an average travel speed (already documented), we depart Point A by no later than (clock time) with the need for breaks every two hours and food/fuel, thus . . . .

Three hundred miles or three o'clock. Plug in the numbers. See how it works. Find the rest areas for breaks. Find the daily fuel stop and/or food stop. Mark the exit numbers. Make the retail purchases from the biggest most easily accessible stores in the same direction of travel. Etc. Lay it all out. Planning is the time saver (And stress reducer).

Travel speed is almost irrelevant. A detail. (And, why was it important to take heavy risks?).

So, need to get there sooner? Leave earlier. Multiple long days? Then a reasonable maximum miles per day and plan the off hours as well. May not be time for two hours of television each evening. Or a second highball. Lay out clothes and shower the night before. Planned quick breakfast and no reason to have unhooked trailer. Fast food lunch at the fuel stop. Dinner in a thermal cooler riding in the sink during the day. Etc. In a genuine sense, there are no "off hours" on high miles multi day trips. It ain't vacation. Yet.

Higher travel speed just won't pay. And doesn't save enough to obviate the above. Skip the meals, the breaks, the needed hours of rest, etc, and "enjoy" your high risk behavior. Fatigued means same as hung over or texting.

It's just some discipline. Once acquired, easy to do. Easy to make miles disappear. To get "there".

To have arrived "there" fatigued is almost failure. Test and refine.

Driving fast is four wheeler stupidity. An illusion. Driving fast is sometimes correlated to speed limits. Thus, use vehicle spacing. Use trip planning. Test to find what works. Refine.

Luck is not a skill. Yesterday is not today. Plan, record, test, refine.

[NWGetaways]

OK, so,this discussion has been mostly about interstate driving. Let's talk about two lane highways for a bit.

Most of my driving, with and without the trailer, is on two lane roads. Vehicles with and without trailers that consistently drive under the limit, amassing long lines behind them, are not only rude - they are dangerous. They encourage impatient drivers to drive aggressively, to pass at any partial opportunity, to tailgate...

There's no reason to drive below the speed limit on these roads in normal conditions, with or without a trailer. If you are unable to manage that, please keep to the interstates.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

Interesting thread.

Take-aways: 1. Drive at a speed that is appropriate for ALL conditions. That includes not only weather, but also whether or not you are towing, traffic, possible distractions, familiarity with the area, etc. 2. Driving too slowly can be as much of a danger as driving too fast. 3. Having a navigator is a big help.

I tend to drive about 60 with an RV. That's what I did when we had the mpg, that's what I do with the Foretravel, and that's what I'll do when we get the Airstream. For planning purposes I use an average speed of 50 mph and a maximum driving day of five hours or 250 miles. We like to leave somewhere between 8 and 9 in the morning and arrive at the campground early afternoon.

I'm fortunate enough to have Jo Ann doing the navigating (she won't drive the Foretravel, which is one reason why we're selling it). I sometimes have to remind her that there is no blue line on the highway, but we always manage to get where we're going. When she is driving I'm the navigator. In heavy traffic the navigator also watches outside for any hazards and calls them out.

One other tidbit: I recently bought an Apple Watch and found out that if we use my phone for navigation my Watch will alert me slightly before the phone does about an upcoming turn.

There is no speed appropriate for all conditions. It's ALWAYS in context. According to conditions.

There are upper and lower posted limits. Below the latter one is required to use four ways and exit early if the condition causing same is not rectified soon (relative to other traffic as with weather).

Within those limits there is not "too slow". An Interstate provides a passing lane. On other roads one pulls over to allow other traffic to pass.

Best speed is still that which maximizes distances. Speedo reading isn't important.

I get the point about a well chosen speed. Above post is "why" of such. And why even 60 won't work at times.

I came off a snowy mountain in NE Pennsylvania yesterday to run IH80 westbound. Temps in mid 20s. Had already adjusted trailer to maximize weight on drive axles. Just easing along at 61. Defroster on maximum.

And was aware miles ahead of the four wheelers that one of their kinfolk had lost control and crossed the median. Cops and their flashing disco lights as dusk approached. Knew the mile markers.

The CB pays for itself weekly. GPS and WAZE have their place. But nothing beats real time. Forewarned is forearmed.

Came over the crest and there they were. Guess which group was panicked at braking in slippery roadway?

Throw an RVer in there without seriously long spacing on that roadway and watch a multi car crash take place.

No warning for the deaf.