Gas Prices for 2011 - How high is too high to tow?

[DrPlay]

Bart:

You are correct, reading the Constitution does not answer the question about how gas prices will effect travel plans. I was not specific enough in the snide comment. I was referring to many other comments concerning our lack of domestic energy production -- the creation of the EPA was unconstitutional (not an enumerated power -- and has stiffled domestic production), inflation hurts all of us, it is a sneaky tax (Federal Reserve -- unconstitutional -- creates inflation and is favored by most banking interests), etc etc. We can get out of this mess but we need to get back to the Constitution -- which has not been followed since the early 1900's.

[Gene]

I am unsure how constitutional law has anything to do with domestic energy production and the the price of fuel in relation to travel. Since it has been brought up…

I want to point out the Constitution is an example of brevity with much left to interpretation. To truly understand it and not just read into it what you want to see, it helps to read federal case law on constitutional issues perhaps preceded by a couple of semesters of study in advanced courses in con law. It would also help to focus somewhat on the "necessary and proper" clause since it expands on the enumerated powers—it's not there to just fill space. The framers were not inflexible men who thought nothing would ever change so they wrote a document that could accommodate change while preserving the spirit and substance of the governmental structure. An inflexible constitution would have crippled development and stability and probably would have been long ago substantially re-written to reflect change. Flexibility is part of the essential genius of it.

Gene

[PINKBIKE]

Gotta say,Gene I like the way you think,very well thought out !

[eubank]

Gene's point is well taken. The Wikipedia has pretty good x-linked articles on the Constitution and its interpretation. It can pretty much absorb an afternoon or two.

Lynn

[StingrayL82]

Originally Posted by Kosm1o

Recently heard some experts on the radio who believe it quite likely we could see gas prices spike up again even higher than a couple of years ago when they were over $4.00 a gallon. $4 seemed to be the point where people really changed their driviing habits. They see spikes up to $5 per gal. At what point would you cancel that long camping trip should these forcasters be correct?

Getting back to the point (and keeping the politics out of it.....again), it's already too high. Quoting the price of your RV and your tow vehicle ans saying who cares is ignorant...some of us don't have the luxury of saying who cares, because we have mouths to feed.

The only advantage I can see to diesel spiking again, like it did in '08, is that I might be able to buy another F350, since you couldn't give them away, when I bought my King Ranch.

[Ken J]

Gas/cost is always a factor to me - the price of gas won't stop me - what I'll do to compensate is take shorter trips - I figure once you are inside your trailer, the grand canyon looks the same as downtown Houston -

Ken J.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

It's not only the price of gasoline, how about the cost of a simple bottle of beer?

Years ago, it cost a quarter. So which inflated more, gasoline, or beer?

A bottle of beer today costs $3.00 for 12 ounces. The same 12 ounces of gasoline costs 43 cents.

So.....do we give up the beer?

NO WAY.................... JOSE

It's all relative, when we want recreation, physical, mental, or liquid, it's the choices we all make.

Andy

I remember in the 60's
32 cents gal of gas
35 cents pack of smokes
25 cents beer
10 cents bottle pop
5 or 10 cents candy bar

[THEPILL]

Originally Posted by r carl

I remember in the 60's
32 cents gal of gas
35 cents pack of smokes
25 cents beer
10 cents bottle pop
5 or 10 cents candy bar

WOW!!! Good ol' days.

I wasn't born till 68.

Shane

[moosetags]

I started on the City of Miami Police Department in 1968. The starting pay for a Police Officer was $409 per month. That's $2.36 per hour. As I recall a gallon of gas at 32 cents and a pack of smokes at 35 cents was pretty pricey.

Brian

[r carl]

Originally Posted by THEPILL

WOW!!! Good ol' days.

I wasn't born till 68.

Shane

I couldnt imagine anyone calling the 80's or 90's the good ol' day's.....

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

But in Canada, they are still driving and it's around $4 US.
Gene

Today gas is around $1.14 Canadian per litre, which is around $4.30 per gallon. The Canada/USA difference for diesel is a little less as diesel tends to be cheaper than gas here, and more expensive than gas in the USA.

We live within an hour of the border at Niagara Falls and spend a lot of time in New York and Michigan. Although we pay more for fuel here, we can almost always count on it being cheaper across the border. As the price of oil goes up so does the Canadian dollar (it finished the year above the US $), making things priced in US dollars cheaper to us. Since we do most our traveling in the USA the higher Canadian dollar somewhat counters the increased cost of fuel.

We did a major trip last summer before our oldest went off to university, and will probably stick to shorter trips over the next few years. Camping with our kids is too important to give up just because fuel costs are high. Also, when you're traveling with three or four teenagers the benefit of being able to cook your own meals adds up pretty quickly.

[THEPILL]

Originally Posted by r carl

I couldnt imagine anyone calling the 80's or 90's the good ol' day's.....

I was sideing with you.. Saying YES the 50's and 60's were the good ol days.

Geez often people statements are taken out of context here.

Geez,...

For driving a Chevy,,..you aren't that bright are ya?....LOL

Shane

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

It's not only the price of gasoline, how about the cost of a simple bottle of beer?

Years ago, it cost a quarter. So which inflated more, gasoline, or beer?

A bottle of beer today costs $3.00 for 12 ounces.

Wow--you must buy expensive beer!
.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by THEPILL

I was sideing with you.. Saying YES the 50's and 60's were the good ol days.

Geez often people statements are taken out of context here.

Geez,...

For driving a Chevy,,..you aren't that bright are ya?....LOL

Shane

I know Shane.....Geeez

Dont get me going on ford-chev.

[Hansom-Man]

All this hoo-ha about oil companies, profiteering, and conspiracy is just that.

Yes, US liquids production is declining. However, natural gas reserves are growing at an unprecidented rate due to the large number of shale gas discoveries in N. America. I can tell you that none of the major oil companies saw that coming. It's gotten so bad that major gas producing countries like Russia have started PR campaigns highlighting the "environmental dangers" of unconventional natural gas. If you don't believe it, take a look at natural gas prices....

The real question is when will people start converting their vehicles from gasoline to natural gas?

For reference nat gas is ~$4.00/kcf. ~6 kcf = 1 barrel of crude.

That means you are only paying $24 the oil barrel equivalent in natural gas. Don't think it will be long before 4:1 disparity causes a shift. Biggest barrier to this happening is refuelling infrastructure.

Yeah, we'll still be streaming this summer. With any luck high fuel prices will help us get into more choice campgrounds...

[newroswell]

The oil literally bubbled up out of the ground around here a few decades ago. When they drilled into Lakeview (about 25 miles from Bakersfield), the whole county nearly drowned in oil. They still pump out BILLIONS of BARRELS. Diesel is about $3.60 on the corner station this afternoon. This isn't a more drilling, more refining problem. I would love to pay the pretax price for fuel. This is Taxifornia.

Lakeview Gusher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Kosm1o]

It appears that most are thinking like I am , in that the cost of fuel must be weighed against the overal fun factor of a trip. Our first choice this year is the Tetons. We are thinking that we also want to make a trip into Maine which is considerably closer than Grand Teton. If fuels prices get ridiculous, we may go there and postpone the Teton trip until 2012. I am thinking $5.00 per gal is the decision point.
A boater friend of mine regularly went up the coast of Michigan in his 36' Carver. Fuel consumption in these boats is measured in gallons per mile, not miles per gallon. A two week trip going up the coast a few hundred miles and back cost him over $3,000 when gas was in the $2.50 range. Last year he sold the boat and bought an RV. He thought 8 mpg was great on his trip to Yellowstone!

[DrPlay]

Gene:

The 'necessary and propert" clause as well as the 'general welfare' clause have been two of the Progressives (both Dem and Rep) favorite tools to expand the power of the federal gov. The flexibility of our Constitution is in the amendment process. Otherwise you simply have each new administration interpreting issues as they see fit. Case law/precedent should have never been allowed to trump what the Constitution allows.

My post said the EPA, should have read the DoE. The DoE was created to get us off foriegn oil -- how'd that work out?